PDA

View Full Version : Tricksy traps vs ambush



AngelofSorrow
28-10-2009, 18:39
Having a dispute with a co worker as to how ambushing units are affected by tricksy traps.
Can tricksy traps affect a unit that is not deployed normally?

I do not have the relevant army books with me at the moment but I was reading them yesterday though.

This would also apply to things like gorgers.

stripsteak
28-10-2009, 20:11
assuming you mean sneaky schemes, never played iwth it before but from reading it.

it is done before deployment and rolled for each unit in the enemy forces, so you would roll for miners, gorgers etc. and it sounds like it imposes a forced deployment on them so i would think it would affect things like ambush, scout, or other alternate deployment strategies.

Kalandros
28-10-2009, 20:45
Indeed, it affects every single unit before deployment, since he chooses in the deployment phase to put some units aside for Ambush, they can be rolled for before and forced to enter play from his own table edge, without ambushing, if you roll a 6.

AngelofSorrow
28-10-2009, 21:01
Units that ambush are also chosen before deployment and skarsnik's ability says the models would not deploy normally. Ambushing is not deploying normally.

EvC
29-10-2009, 01:07
Yeah I was wondering this kinda thing too as I'm starting up a Skarsnik gobbo army. So you'd roll for Beast Herds, Tomb Scorpions, Miners, Gorgers, etc. What about a Slann and Temple Guard, who must deploy together?

stripsteak
29-10-2009, 01:56
going for a rules lawerish answer, the temple guard rules say the slann just has to join a unit, it doesn't say must be deployed in one. its just that typically deployment is the earliest point when the Slann can join the unit, and so must at that point. roll separately for both, if either gets held back then they should try to join each other at the earliest opportunity.

other waysi personally would be ok playing it:
roll once for the unit as a whole
roll once for each use the worse result for the group
roll once for each using the best result

jaxom
29-10-2009, 17:28
Does tricksy traps/sneaky schemes affect characters individually?

stripsteak
29-10-2009, 17:49
it affects all units, and characters on their own are still considered a unit.

EvC
29-10-2009, 17:55
Yerr, it happens before deployment so at that point all characters are individual and rolled for separately. What about weapons teams, detatchments and the like though..?

Braad
29-10-2009, 18:59
If you read a bit further in Skarsnik's rules it says:
"...do not deploy as normal, but instead enter the board from their deployment edge in the movement phase...".

The way gorgers, ambushers and stuff are deployed is 'normal' for them. Since Skarsnik's rules say you roll for all enemy units, and tell you to move them on the table in the opponents first movement phase, I say that's what you do.

stripsteak
29-10-2009, 19:06
i think now you're getting into the discuss with your opponent and possibly 4+ it situations. The rules just aren't detailed enough to cover the oddballs.

they are defined as individual units, so you should technically roll for them and a failed roll would override their normal deployment and hold them back. Now the tricky part comes when the parent unit is detained, since the detachment must deploy simultaneously with the parent it could be argued the detachment would be held back as well. weapon teams and plague censor bearers have similar wording in their rules ie must be deployed with the parent. going by raw i think you are double screwed on these units, you roll for them separately and they can get held back if the parent does :/

Da GoBBo
29-10-2009, 19:58
If you read a bit further in Skarsnik's rules it says:
"...do not deploy as normal, but instead enter the board from their deployment edge in the movement phase...".

The way gorgers, ambushers and stuff are deployed is 'normal' for them. Since Skarsnik's rules say you roll for all enemy units, and tell you to move them on the table in the opponents first movement phase, I say that's what you do.

I'm with Braad here. His explanation is perfectly clear and perfectly in line with the rule.

The Slann / templeguard question is a good one. I'd say the unit and the slann are two seperate units. If a Slann is tricked, the temple guard would deploy as normal, and the slann would enter form table edge. Note that he can join the unit if this unit is deployed at the table edge, which raises the question if the temple guard is obliged to deploy there.
I don't know the Temple guard rules that well, but is a Slann allowed to leave that unit? If he is, I'd say the slann and the Temple guard units can do what ever they want. But I think the slann must remain in that unit right?
If this is the case, and the Guard is not obliged to deploy at the tables edge, I think the Slann should allways try to join ranks with the guard as soon as possible, moving towards the guard by the quickest route as possible etc (as it is done with other units in the game, like skaven weapon teams which stray from the main unit). And visa versa.