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Johnnyfrej
28-10-2009, 22:02
Now as a 40k player the ability to Outflank with a squad is a major tactical advantage. I was planning on having him "outflank" with a 7x3 formation of Marauders. The goal is taking out the cowardly units that hide in the opponents deployment zone (Thorek, CoS, War Machines etc.). My question is does he impact as much in-game as he does in theory-hammer?

MasterSparks
28-10-2009, 22:18
I haven't actually used Wulfrik myself but I'd say that in theory, he can be of very great value. His actual in-game impact will depend a lot on your roll for him to arrive, in my opinion. If he turns up too late (say turn 4-5) he might not make it in time to get anything worthwhile done. It will also leave the rest of your army with roughly 300-350 less points to battle the enemy with until he arrives.

These are just some reflections from an outsiders point of view. :)

Jericho
28-10-2009, 22:30
Consider this though, most infantry units in the Chaos list won't be able to have much impact on the game until turn 4 anyway. Unless the opponents move forwards, you can't charge until at least turn 4. It's a gamble for sure, but he's not *that* expensive and if the other guy doesn't have units to deal with Wulfrik's flankers then it can radically shift their battle plan.

It's similar to Dwarf miners, they tried to outflank my hill full of missile troops in a tourney over the weekend, and I was able to send them packing by charging them with a unit of Duelists w/ pistols. If the enemy can bring flexible troops (like skirmishers) to defend against the outflank then it's a very risky maneuver.

Johnnyfrej
28-10-2009, 22:50
It's similar to Dwarf miners, they tried to outflank my hill full of missile troops in a tourney over the weekend, and I was able to send them packing by charging them with a unit of Duelists w/ pistols. If the enemy can bring flexible troops (like skirmishers) to defend against the outflank then it's a very risky maneuver.
Don't forget that it is any table edge, so he could come in on my own or my opponent's sides as well.

You do raise a good point. The turn they arrive on the field they cannot charge, leaving them vulnerable.

sulla
29-10-2009, 07:05
Wulfrik in a mob of slaanesh marauders is good value... but he's such an ugly model and it's often just as easy to play another Tz flying mage to finish off those war machines etc.

The Anarchist
29-10-2009, 14:09
as Sulla has said for his cost and then add the cost of his unit, you can normally find something cheaper to get the job done. however he can admittedly force your opponent to change his battle plans, like keeping back a unit to deal with him, thats hopefully one less unit you have to deal with down a flank or such.

PeG
29-10-2009, 17:07
Depends on what army you are playing against and if your opponent is expecting him to show up and what they do about it.

The main problem is that he doesnt charge on the turn he arrives which means that if he appears behind for example a gunline (which may look like a good idea) your opponent will still have one turn to fire his grapeshots/organ guns etc on the unit before it can charge.

Other armies as my WE just wouldnt care since they are fast enough to move out of his way unless they want to be in combat.

Jericho
29-10-2009, 20:01
Agreed. I think in a fluffy Marauder filled list he makes sense and offers some tactical flair that you might not otherwise get, but in a standard list there's better options for outmaneuvering the enemy.

I think it's pretty damning that Wulfrik was public enemy #1 on the rumors/tactics forums for a while, and then after a couple weeks of use on the tabletop you never saw him again :p

sulla
29-10-2009, 20:52
He's still useful for shadowing an enemy and mopping up anybody that flees or is broken in combat. Especially with slaaneshi marauders since they are such a reliable rock vs panic/terror etc.

Bauknefer
31-10-2009, 06:53
I like using him with a giant mob of khorne marauders with flails to start crushing skulls lol try it out. he is good himself too. and worth every penny an exalted hero with just magic items is more wexpensive.

FallenAfh
31-10-2009, 07:15
Agreed. I think in a fluffy Marauder filled list he makes sense and offers some tactical flair that you might not otherwise get, but in a standard list there's better options for outmaneuvering the enemy.

I think it's pretty damning that Wulfrik was public enemy #1 on the rumors/tactics forums for a while, and then after a couple weeks of use on the tabletop you never saw him again :p

I think its pretty much to do with Gunline lists becoming less popular. Unlike the more versatile Disc Rider which can hunt stuff other then warmachines/missle units which hang back.

zerachiel
31-10-2009, 08:54
I think its pretty much to do with Gunline lists becoming less popular. Unlike the more versatile Disc Rider which can hunt stuff other then warmachines/missle units which hang back.

I think the problem was that he has to take a round of shooting on the chin before he had any impact that made him lose favor. Getting a block behind a gun-line is swell, but if you want to be in charge range you're now also in grape-shot range, and if you're taking on elves they can just turn around and pincushion you- Marauders are not sturdy.

Condottiere
31-10-2009, 09:08
If your opponent knows you're coming, and can position his reserves correctly, the threat of Wulfrik is usually neutralized.

FallenAfh
31-10-2009, 18:18
I think the problem was that he has to take a round of shooting on the chin before he had any impact that made him lose favor. Getting a block behind a gun-line is swell, but if you want to be in charge range you're now also in grape-shot range, and if you're taking on elves they can just turn around and pincushion you- Marauders are not sturdy.

Which is why you always give Marauders the dirt cheap MoS. ;)

If the enemys diverting of firepower/disrupting his own line for 2 turns (one to turn around and 1 to actually shoot), thats pretty much points well spent there. If you're afraid of the Marauders giving up easy combat res you could always charge Wulfrik out of the unit by himself, but make sure that the targets soft enough and that he doesn't get stranded by his lonesome if he wins/breaks the target. :p

zerachiel
01-11-2009, 00:38
Which is why you always give Marauders the dirt cheap MoS. ;)

If the enemys diverting of firepower/disrupting his own line for 2 turns (one to turn around and 1 to actually shoot), thats pretty much points well spent there. If you're afraid of the Marauders giving up easy combat res you could always charge Wulfrik out of the unit by himself, but make sure that the targets soft enough and that he doesn't get stranded by his lonesome if he wins/breaks the target. :p

The thing is that not every army needs to stand still to shoot. Wood Elves, High Elves and Tomb Kings can just about-face and mow down the Marauders to a manageable size the turn they appear, and Empire/Dwarves/Dark Elves can still break out the war machines and grape-shot, as well as specialty units like Outriders and Dark Riders that can respond easily. For Wulfrik to truly have an impact (aside from spending 200+ points to take down a 100 point cannon) he needs to arrive with a very large retinue of Marauders (I'm thinking 20-25), and even then if he arrives too early he gets focused on, and if he arrives too late combats are already decided.

Even worse, his flanking ability is pointless in any army that WANTS to meet yours in combat, as Marauders are generally terrible combatants, and usually these armies fight in the center of the board. He can't even chase flanking elements, because flanking elements are usually faster than him.

Wulfrik as a character I do like, though. Since your opponent knows his mark, you can use Wulfrik as a scare tactic, as the guy can take on even some Lords and win no problem. When I used him I generally stick him with some Warriors and let them go to town, as after repeated disasters against Empire when flanking with him caused me to become prejudiced against his special deployment.

He's just easy to counter and avoid, as he's usually appearing behind lines with no support and can be easily blocked by skirmishers or flanked himself by a unit that turned around.

Now, if only he did a Noah impression and took horses on his magical ship...

sulla
01-11-2009, 01:15
Even worse, his flanking ability is pointless in any army that WANTS to meet yours in combat, as Marauders are generally terrible combatants, and usually these armies fight in the center of the board. He can't even chase flanking elements, because flanking elements are usually faster than him.

Is this theoryhammer or experience? Because If I had a unit that could come on from a table edge and I was fighting an enemy cc army, I would fight up one flank so that when wulfrik came on, he would be in position to flank charge them or get around behind them to stop flee resonses. I wouldn't fight them up the centre of 'the park' and if they wanted to, all they would look forward to would be chasing a few fast cav and dogs...