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View Full Version : Facing Ogres with Tomb Kings - help needed!



Lastie
22-01-2006, 12:31
I've been collecting Tomb Kings for a while now (although, due to a lack of WFB players I know I've played few games with them) and recently a friend of mine has started collecting Ogres. We played a game a recently which ended in a complete slaughter of my troops.

To summarise: his army consisted of two squads of Bulls, one of six, one of five with an attached Bruiser. A squad of four Leadbelchers, and a single Maneater. My army consisted of a squad of twenty Skeleton Warriors, a squad of eleven Tomb Guard with attached Prince, a Tomb Scorpion, eight Light Horsemen, and two Liche Priests (one of which was mounted, the other on foot with the Cloak of Dunes). My Tomb Scorpion died charging a Bull unit in the rear after successfully pulling off 'It Came From Below ...', my Prince killed the Maneater but saw the Guard squad and himself slaughtered by the same Bull unit that killed the Scorpion. My Warriors died to the Bull unit with the Bruiser (I failed to support them, my mistake), and my Light Horsemen suffered from the Leadbelchers (by this time they were the only models left except for my Liche Priests, who survived the battle).

Looking through the Tomb Kings army list, I'm stumped as to finding ways to combat an army comprised of lots of high Toughness and multiple Wound creatures. Anyone have experience they could part with on this matter?

Jim Reaper
22-01-2006, 13:17
I've played as Tomb Kings from time to time so hopefully I can be of some use. It's very important to get the charge in on Ogres so you'll want to be using the Incantation of Urgency as often as possible. Being Ogres his dispelling will be beyond poor, and you should be able to get it off at least once a turn if not twice.

Use your fast troops like your light horse (think about some heavy horse too) to flank the Ogres and take advantage of their small numbers.

Try using some Ushabti, they're about the finest Ogre-sized troops in the game and can comprehensively trounce the Ogres at their own game. A Screaming Skull catapult might be worth a try too as Ogre Leadership is very poor and you should be able to force a good few Panic tests. Especially if you use Skulls of te Foe that'll cause him some real problems.

Finally, if you're going to charge people in the back with your Tomb Scorpions make sure there's someone else in the front, or they'll die just like yours did. Also 12 is too few Tomb Guard outside of an MSU army - either get some more or use a larger block of Skeleton Warriors.

Oh, and don't call them squads, dammit. It's units or regiments, you're not playing 40K! :p

Lastie
22-01-2006, 17:33
Oh, and don't call them squads, dammit. It's units or regiments, you're not playing 40K! :p

Argh! I feel so unclean! <heads off to WFB shrine to purge himself of 40K terminology>

Mad Makz
22-01-2006, 19:18
By the sounds of things you aren't playing very many points, which puts you in a tight position (Tomb Kings only begin to operate well at above 2000 points). Without having a look at your list, the most obvious advice I can offer is to take the Flail of Skulls on your Tomb Prince and put him in a chariot so he can get the charge off. Flail of Skulls Strength 6 doing double wounds is about as good as your going to get against tough, multiple wound creatures.

Screaming Skull Catapults (with Skulls of the Foe) could also be good, it does multiple wounds and can cause panic tests. If he's got big units of Bulls then they should be easy enough to hit.

If you have access to some Ushabti, they really put the hurt on Ogre Bulls (Hit on 3's, wound on 2's)

gunlinetastic
22-01-2006, 19:28
Screaming Skull Catapults should work well, so should archers to kill some bulls/ironguts. Try to get the Catapults to fire twice a turn, so thats 2 shots from the catapult. Should be able to force a panic test on an Ogre unit.

Cpt. Drill
22-01-2006, 19:41
Screaming skull catapult archers and ushabti will rip his ogres to shreds...

...i know... it has happened to me. :(

The only problem is if he is new to the game.. this tactic could possibly make hims top playing you... it doesnt make for a fun game!

colhodg
23-01-2006, 08:06
Not familiar with TK's but don't you have units of chariots chariots? I've found my beastmen chariots with impact hits roll all over my friends ogre army (providing they don't get shot first). Depends on getting to charge first though.

leeoaks
23-01-2006, 09:23
light chariot wont cut it against ogres unless u flank or have a tomb king/prince in it!

Lastie
23-01-2006, 13:40
OK, so collating all the advice so far (and this is, as someone noticed and I apologise for not saying this, for a 1,000pt game):

* Screaming Skull catapult (which I need to get)
* Ushabti (which I have a unit of three of)
* Archers (plenty of those too)

Thanks to everyone who posted! This'll get me by until I finish my Skaven Skryre army (hmm ... Warpfire Throwers ...)

Scabby
23-01-2006, 13:58
Tomb king with flail of skulls in a chariot unit with Icon of the Sacred Eye will whittle down ogre units quick. Hit on 2+, wound on 2+, each wound= 2wounds. With impact hits and crappy crew/horsey hits it should do in a unit of orgres.

MarcoPollo
25-01-2006, 01:50
Yes, impact hits will help. Also the "hail of arrows" technique is a good one. I have played against TK for a while now. I am not an expert on ogre's but I hear they are weak to impact hits because they don't have much rank.

Lots and lots of arrows will cause panic. When their units get into charge range, reform into huge blocks. So you'll need 20+ units of archers. When you reform, you open up lines to charge and counter charge. With incantation of Urgency, this can be quite potent.

Ganymede
25-01-2006, 02:43
The casket of souls is quite useful against an ogre army.

It will deduct 1 from all the butchers' casting rolls. Now suddenly half of all their spells are failing.

Addionally, the lower leadership of an ogre army means they will take a couple more wounds from the magical effect.

CuLane
25-01-2006, 07:27
I've played TK for years and there are a LOT of ways to deal with Ogres... First off the SSC is the best, D6 wounds, -1 to LD instant panic tests... You'll watch ogre unit after unit run off the table (consequently causing more panic tests in the back, like with gnoblars). Flail of skulls is good, but really only against ogres. I don't like to do something that's just good against one army. Blocks of undead will stand their ground against anything and you can raise them back up. Tomb Guard aren't so useful since their tomb blade special rule is worthless. Stack up on ranked Heavy Cav since they're only 16pts a model and take at least one good sized chariot unit with a prince/king. You'll be running circles around him getting flank/rear charges. Also run that mounted priest near the heavy cav to keep them moving, flying your heirophant in to lend additional magic at the right moment. Use your Scorpion to hunt characters. It's only US 4 so it's no better in the rear than in the front. But against a lone Ogre character you have US 4 against his 3, so you start +1 on combat res, plus you're tougher (T5). Good hunting!

Morph
25-01-2006, 07:48
Careful when using chariots, Ogres have S7 heroes after all. You'll need to use your magic to make sure any charges can avoid the chariot killers. Flank charges become veyr important here.

But overall I'd try to be mainly defensive (catapult + archers) then after whittling them down and making a few units run away counter charge with Ushabti or chariors.

Mad Makz
25-01-2006, 07:53
Flail of skulls is good, but really only against ogres. !

Uhm, Flail of Skulls is great against ogres, and aslo good against most other armies (Strength 7 on a tomb king doing double wounds is particularly good for challenges/overkill on champions, and monsters).

Admittedly, if you are talking about in your average 1000 point army list then yes, on a tomb prince it's not so good and there may be better options due to the lack of armour available, but I still certainy think it's a viable choice against most armies (At toughness 5 with 3 wound a lot of characters will have trouble killing him in 1000 point games even without much on the way of armour and it certainly makes his my Will be done incantation in combat a little more scary when he's in base to base with a character).

But you would be right if you were saying that on a Tomb Prince in 1000 points that it is not the best take on all comers item, I still think it's worth considering (especially if your tombprince is on a chariot so is likely to get the charge.)