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View Full Version : "Hiring" DoW unit into Dwarf Army, wich one??



Hrokka `Eadsplitter
29-10-2009, 21:02
I've resently started a dwarf army, and I've noticed some important elements have been left behind. So, I'll "hire" a unit of DoW, and wich one do you think should do?
Ogres, pikemens, heavy cav, light cav or crossbowmen??

Malorian
29-10-2009, 21:41
Do those flying guys with the pistols :D

They would work well to march block/take out warmachines and offer great conversion options.

mistrmoon
29-10-2009, 21:59
Malorian you are thinking of the Birdmen of Alca-something, don't do it they are awful. for 25pts a peice you get guys with bows (they have light crossbows that count as bows) that can fly. They aren't worth it at all. Go for some iron guts, mobility+hard hitting close combat unit is something dwarfs really lack, let them act as a flanking unit and you won't be disappointed. If you want something themed then drong's Pirates and the Goblin Hewer are both worth more then their points, especially the Hewer.

danny-d-b
29-10-2009, 22:00
erm, bad idea, due the fact there light crossbows, not pistols and thought to be the worst ROR ever

best idea is either maneaters (or some other ogers), or volonds ventors or some light cav as they give something diffrent

Jericho
29-10-2009, 22:38
Slayer Pirates are awesome, a unit of like 15 of them can be TONS of fun. When a Giant comes walking over their direction and they declare "BLIGGITY BLAM x30!" with their pistols it's a truly heart-warming experience. I like taking about this many, ranked 5x3 in the start but 7x2 once the enemy get within bliggity-blam distance. They aren't quite as good against big targets in combat as regular Slayers are, but they are MUCH more effective against regular infantry since they get two S4 armor-piercing attacks at all times. Drong gets four :evilgrin:

The Goblin-Hewer is truly amazing as well, for the price it's fantastic. Shame it eats up a Hero slot, but the fact that it's crewed by a bunch of Slayers including one with Hero type stats is pretty epic. BS5 and never misfiring makes it extremely reliable at thinning ranks too, be sure to get enfilade shots wherever humanly (dwarfenly??) possible.

Aside from these two units, I would really hesitate to take anything from the Dogs of War list. It really breaks theme, and Dwarfs would never admit to needing cavalry/Ogres to fill a hole in their combat style. Even though most of these units aren't a great bargain, people will still dislike the fact that you're looking outside your army book for help.

Kislevite themed cavalry are a bit more acceptable, since there's no proper Kislev list at all anymore and Kislevite allied contingents could work with Empire or Dwarfs.

Oh, and for the record? Al Muktar's Desert Dogs take the cake for worst Regiment of Renown of all time. Human light cavalry with hand weapon and shield, 6 for 240 points. No real special rules or equipment to speak of (ooh a magic sword on the champion with weaker stats than Muktar, and the standard bearer gets 0 attacks because he's a blind beggar child). The only thing they have worth mentioning is a +d3CR banner, which is insane to put on fast cav in the first place. Bloody brilliant unit :eyebrows:

Commissar Vaughn
29-10-2009, 22:46
Not exactly the worst: if they were just really fast skirmishing archers that'd be fine for say 14/15 points each: faster than bow armed light cav but lacking the armour save and horse attack. Its just that for 25 points...well, Im not sure what GW were thinking.

Perhaps they momentarily mistook them for Jumppack equipped space marines....

Anyway if you want a Regiment of Renown (you cant really have generic Dogs of War unless your collecting Dogs of War)...well theres not a lot the Dwarfs are missing really: Youve got solid shooting and infantry, I suppose that would leave cavalry. Which gives you a few choices:

Theres three ROR light cav units: one's a bunch of hobgoblins and I cant see the Dwarfs wanting them around. Theres some lizard riding skinks out to get something valuable off you...or theres a bunch of Arabians. They tend to be equipped for combat tho, you know, that place where light cav comes off badly and in bits!

Theres only one heavy Cavalry ROR: Volands Venators. easily represented with a box of Empire Cavalry and the apprpriate painting. Their nothing special but unlike most dogs of war regiments you dont pay over the odds for them: simply a human captain leading some well equipped lancers.

Re Drongs slayers: they dont get those armour peircing attacks in h2h any more unfortunatly...

Jericho
29-10-2009, 23:14
Re Drongs slayers: they dont get those armour peircing attacks in h2h any more unfortunatly...
I beg to differ.

All the pirates, including Long Drong, gain an additional Attack because they are fighting with a pistol in each hand. Since they are festooned with pistols which they shoot off in a hurricane of destruction, all of their attacks are considered to be Strength 4 Armour Piercing pistol shots. The Pirates carry so many pistols that they never need to reload, therefore their pistol bonus is always in action, not only in the first round of combat.
The specificity of their special rule makes it extremely tough to argue with. If it just said "They may always shoot their pistols in combat, as per the regular rules" then they would indeed be humped by the 7th edition core rulebook. The RAW has a lot of the words "all" and "always" in it and never directly refers to the core rules for pistols.

There is a weak case for arguing that "Loads of pistols!" and "Festooned with pistols" don't allow the ability to multi-shot like a brace of pistols does (or shoot in the shooting phase at all if you really want to be a rules lawyer), but there is really no interpretation of the RAW or RAI that takes away the S4 AP close combat attacks.

scarvet
30-10-2009, 00:30
High elf prince on dragon? thats something good enough to replace an organ gun/flame cannon.

Condottiere
30-10-2009, 00:34
Since at minimum DoW take away a Special slot, but usually a Rare one, identify the areas that you need/want covered, which will indicate the mercenaries that you need.

Nathangonmad
30-10-2009, 01:52
High elf prince on dragon? thats something good enough to replace an organ gun/flame cannon.

he only works for helfs/welfs/dow

Condottiere
30-10-2009, 02:00
He's also only a Noble and quite vulnerable to missiles.

mistrmoon
30-10-2009, 06:18
also double rare i believe, so you would have to completely give up OG and gyro's.

Commissar Vaughn
30-10-2009, 08:26
I beg to differ.

The specificity of their special rule makes it extremely tough to argue with. If it just said "They may always shoot their pistols in combat, as per the regular rules" then they would indeed be humped by the 7th edition core rulebook. The RAW has a lot of the words "all" and "always" in it and never directly refers to the core rules for pistols.

There is a weak case for arguing that "Loads of pistols!" and "Festooned with pistols" don't allow the ability to multi-shot like a brace of pistols does (or shoot in the shooting phase at all if you really want to be a rules lawyer), but there is really no interpretation of the RAW or RAI that takes away the S4 AP close combat attacks.


most recent rules override older rules pistols no longer work in h2h except to give an extra attack.

Condottiere
30-10-2009, 09:13
Non-DoW, Arsanil needs two Hero and one Rare slots.

static grass
30-10-2009, 09:16
Just use Kislev. Decent fast cav that doesn't cost the earth. Decent medium cav that causes panic checks.

Add sprinkle on some gunline for seasoning.

Keller
30-10-2009, 13:56
most recent rules override older rules pistols no longer work in h2h except to give an extra attack. This is true, but not for the Slayer Pirates. The Pirates have special rules which over-ride any core rulebook, the same way as Dark Elf army-book Repeater Crossbows now work differently than they do listed in the core book.

Jericho is correct that the Slayers are unchanged in 7th edition, because their entry spefically details their attacks, rather than simply referencing pistols.



Anyway if you want a Regiment of Renown (you cant really have generic Dogs of War unless your collecting Dogs of War) Any army can take vanilla Dogs of War units, not just Regiments of Renown. The only restrictions are that 1) you can't take any DoW characters, 2) Army characters [Dwarves] cannot join Dogs of War or Regiments of Renown units and vice versa.


Just use Kislev. Decent fast cav that doesn't cost the earth. Decent medium cav that causes panic checks. Kislev is a great option, with some terrific units. Their BS 4 fast cavalry are excelent, and their medium-cavalry aren't terrible. Too bad they eat into your unit selections, including atleast 1 character for the mandatory allied detachment leader. Shouldn't be too much of a problem for Dwarves of all races, though, as they can easily go with fewer characters than allowed. Oh, and the Kislev Boyar makes any unit Stubborn, so those medium-cavalry just got even better. Too bad he can't join Dwarven units.
Or you can go crazy and take Boris and his Bear.

mistrmoon
30-10-2009, 21:12
Non-DoW, Arsanil needs two Hero and one Rare slots.

Ah right, i knew he took 2 of something.

Also to use a kislev lord you need to be playing a total of atleast 3000 points.

Also Also, best option for DOW if you don't mind wasting 2 rare: 3 bull rhinox riders with a musicians, these guys are incredibly tough to kill, T5 W5(each!) 2+ in combat. They hit as hard as blood knights when you take 3D3 S6 impact hits into acount, also having a US15 terror causer running around is boss.

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
30-10-2009, 21:25
I've been thinking of both Volands Venators and Ironguts, but after I've looked at the Alcatani Fellowship and Rico's Republican Guard, and both of'em is kind of good...

Condottiere
30-10-2009, 21:28
It really depends on who you're facing and what you're planning on using them against. Alcatani have WS2, so against WS5 troops they'll hit only a third of the time. Plus, I consider them overpriced.

MarcoPollo
30-10-2009, 21:35
Add some fast cav or medium cav. Maybe some fliers if you don't like the gyrocopter.

Dwarves lack speed so give them some compensation.

Condottiere
31-10-2009, 06:38
The Birdmen can only be hired by the Empire.

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
01-11-2009, 12:02
Now, I've decided. Volands Venators will be hired to do the job, with some help from Gergek's Ogres(Bulls). The mercenaries probably get hired by the dwarfs because of they finally have found someone who likes gold as much as themselves:)
I'll try fit this in in my army background:)

zeekill
02-11-2009, 00:21
I would suggest a unit of irongut ogres. They are strong enough to take out things you might not be able to with dwarves

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
02-11-2009, 18:52
A question: Do Ogre bulls carry light or heavy armour?? And is it possible to use Bulls as Ironguts??

Keller
02-11-2009, 19:32
A question: Do Ogre bulls carry light or heavy armour?? And is it possible to use Bulls as Ironguts??

Model wise, they have no armor, aside from the Gut Plates which add nothing to their armor save. Bulls can buy Light Armor for (IRRC) 4 points each, but I don't think its worth it, personally. Combined with Iron Fists used as shields in combat you do get a 4+ save, but it adds about 10 points per model to bulls, making them about as expensive as Iron Guts who have 5+ save from heavy armor.

As to using Bulls as Guts, it depends. Are you playing in competative games or just against friends who don't mind proxies? The Bulls and Guts are quite different, largly in that Guts have HA (represended by helmets and shields strapped to their bodies) and GW, Bulls have no/LA and clubs, AHWs, or Iron Fists. Otherwise the models are the same. The models are the same base, with just an extra sprue for the greatwaepon arms, armored heads, and sheield plates.

You could convert Bulls to Guts, or just buy the Guts if thats what you want. If its for friendly games, I don't expect anyone would give you trouble so long as you explain what they are before hand, and possibly remind them throughout the game just to be safe.

mistrmoon
02-11-2009, 21:47
Model wise, they have no armor, aside from the Gut Plates which add nothing to their armor save. Bulls can buy Light Armor for (IRRC) 4 points each, but I don't think its worth it, personally. Combined with Iron Fists used as shields in combat you do get a 4+ save, but it adds about 10 points per model to bulls, making them about as expensive as Iron Guts who have 5+ save from heavy armor.


Not quite, iron fists count as shields but CANNOT be combined with a hw for the extra +1, making them largely useless.

Personally, iron guts over bulls any day of the week.

Keller
03-11-2009, 12:33
Not quite, iron fists count as shields but CANNOT be combined with a hw for the extra +1, making them largely useless.

Personally, iron guts over bulls any day of the week.

I don't have my book handy, and I am quite rusty on Ogres to say the least, but why exactly can the ironfists not combine to grant the +1 AS in combat?

They can't be used as sheilds against shooting, but fuction as if a shield in combat, not adding +1 AS in combat.

Please elaborate, as it seems I have been using them wrong (on the extremely rare occassion I have used IFs)

mistrmoon
03-11-2009, 19:26
I'm 99% sure its right in the ironfist rules, but iron fists can be used as an extra CCW if im not mistaken.

Keller
03-11-2009, 20:15
I'm 99% sure its right in the ironfist rules, but iron fists can be used as an extra CCW if im not mistaken.

Yep, they can be used as either shields or AHW, only in combat though. I shall have to check the rules, when I get a chance, as to whether there is anything explicit against the combo save bonus.

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
29-04-2010, 18:22
Hi all!
I deiceded that instead of these fancy knights and ogres mentioned earlier up, I will recruit a giant...
The only problem is: I don't know if there's different rules for different giants(O&G, Ogres, WoCs)... Could someone please tell me if so and which I should use?

BigbyWolf
29-04-2010, 18:29
It's just a standard giant. There was a PDF about hiring them as DoW somewhere, but IIRC it was the same as the OnG one, 205 points and same abilities.

I'll allow it, but only on the condition that you greenstuff him an impressive dwarf-like beard and helmet!

Col. Custard
29-04-2010, 18:37
It's just a standard giant. There was a PDF about hiring them as DoW somewhere, but IIRC it was the same as the OnG one, 205 points and same abilities.

I'll allow it, but only on the condition that you greenstuff him an impressive dwarf-like beard and helmet!

LoL, it would seem that Dwarf ate his wheaties the morning of the battle.

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
30-04-2010, 05:35
I'll allow it, but only on the condition that you greenstuff him an impressive dwarf-like beard and helmet!

Sure, I can do that;)

mistrmoon
30-04-2010, 07:05
If memory serves dwarfs cant take DOW giants.

And back to the previous argument, the birdmen are totally worse then the desert dogs, the desert dogs can atleast do stuff like kill warmachine crews and flank large static res blocks, birdmen are useless.

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
30-04-2010, 15:04
If memory serves dwarfs cant take DOW giants.


If memory serves me, DoW aren't allowed either...;)

And BTW, I would use a Golem model as it...

BigbyWolf
30-04-2010, 16:12
And BTW, I would use a Golem model as it...

NO!

It must be a beardy, helmeted Giant with an anvil of doom around his neck like a medallion!

;)

Hrokka `Eadsplitter
30-04-2010, 17:59
NO!

It must be a beardy, helmeted Giant with an anvil of doom around his neck like a medallion!

;)

If you insist... :D