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Drakon
02-11-2009, 08:28
Ok here is my problem. I play in a gaming group and we play apoc a bit which is fun. I have two fieldable armies which are DG (2000) and SW(4000) (note these are painted models I also have a tonne of unpainted but like to play with painted models.

My problem is that I dont have any super heavies and would like to get some. Everyone else inthe group has atleast 6 each. My problem is which one to get.

The group has 2 chaos warhounds and one chaos reaver on the way, 2 brass scorps and a few chaos super tanks plus some of the FW greater daemons.

Orks have a over half a doz stompaz, 2 squiqoths and a few others i cant name. plus we can get our hands on a garg...(cant spell the rest)

Eldar have 3 titans, vampire hunter(i think its called) and two smaller fighter planes.

Imperial have over a doz super tanks one lucius warhound.

As my main army is SW i want to get something for them. I have looked at the thunderhawk and like it but with the poss of a plastic kit and the lack of ability it has in the game i dont really want to fork out 1000nz for this.

Tanks we have heaps off so I come to think maybe a titan but thats were my real prob is. Should I get an imperial reaver or two warhounds(mars)? and if i got the reaver what arms would you give it? the other fw model i want is the imperial bomber but how effective are these in games.

Please help anyone

thanks in advance

MajorWesJanson
02-11-2009, 08:41
What is your terrain and scenery like?

Overall, for flexability I would go with a pair of Mars pattern Wolf class (Turbolaser+Plasma) Warhounds. They may be individually weaker than a Reaver, but they have the same total structure points and shields, and the weapons are on 4 mounts instead of three, allowing a bit more target diversity as well as one more weapon destroyed result. Warhounds also have Agile, and are small enough to hide behind large buildings. You can also split them apart or deploy them to support one another.

I have one now, and plan to buy a Mars pattern Jackel class (Flamer + Vulcan Bolter) for anti-infantry work, then a Reaver with melta, laser blaster and missiles. Maybe not the most destructive configurations, but I like the flexability.

Ddraiglais
02-11-2009, 12:57
*gets up on soapbox* Whatever you get, I beg of you to do a proper paint job. If it's the titan(s), then research/create a titan legion and use their color scheme. If it's aircraft (outside of the TH), use Imperial Navy color schemes. Very few things bother me as much as when someone paints their titans and/or fighters and bombers the same as their SM/IG/DH/WH army. *gets down*

I would probably go with two warhounds over one reaver. It gives you more tactical flexibility as you can split the warhounds up or keep them together. There are the reasons that MajorWes Janson gave. Also there's the fact that you are presenting your opponents with two targets.

Another option might be to field one warhound and the marauder bomber. That would give you a base to start an Imperial Navy allied force AND an Admech allied force. You can then expand on both as your finances allow. It would also give you a feel for how to use both aircraft and titans properly. You might find you like one over the other and go heavier with the option you like more.

RCgothic
02-11-2009, 13:05
A reaver with twin laserblasters is so overpowered as to be ridiculous. If I were buying mine again, I'd tone it down and get a melta cannon or gatling blaster. It regularly (far more often than not) kills my warhound through full shields in one turn of shooting. The warhound is armed with plasma/turbolaser, and cannot by itself even down the reaver's shields. Two warhounds, shooting first, might JUST be an even fight for a twin-turbo reaver.

A reaver is pretty cool, but so is a pack of warhounds.

Drakon
02-11-2009, 18:56
Prob is a reaver is cool and what Im leaning towards just unsure of how much damaged they do on the field.

Most likely going to be going up against chaos 2 warhounds and a reaver so the imperium needs some fire power.

Another question then...how easy can a reaver get taken out if you dont have any titans?

grissom2006
02-11-2009, 20:13
Depends really on if the enemy has titan killer weapons doing D3 structure hits

Durath
02-11-2009, 20:17
Depends really on if the enemy has titan killer weapons doing D3 structure hits

If he is playing Apoc, then the Titan Killer rule was removed in lieu of "Destroyer" Weapons.

devlin
02-11-2009, 20:22
ive had some good results with my reaver,it does soak up so much fire and as long as you can keep bringing the shields back your laughing
i also made a vortex missile to go on mine its gotta be the most fun weopon
agree with Ddraiglais dont paint it chapter colours make up a legion and go with that i plan to add a warhound as sonn as i can

heres mine no top weopon on as it doesnt fit in the cabinet

http://i87.servimg.com/u/f87/11/67/01/87/00212.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=169&u=11670187)


sorry about the dust

Nexus Trimean
02-11-2009, 20:34
The SW do not have Titans, But they do Have a VERY Close Relationship with the forge world Garm. So make your legion form Garm, Thus having some established fulff to back up you killy weapon of death. :)
I would rather have 2 warhounds than a reaver. and they better fir the theme of your wolves, fast, pack predators.

BigBadBull
02-11-2009, 21:10
Reaver with 2 Tri laserblasers and a Warhound Laser blaster mod'ed for the carapace armor..

Overkill? yep... 8 "d" strength Templates a shooting round = Evil fun..

DigitsDavid
02-11-2009, 22:24
Plastic warhound is on the way (patience - it cometh!) so I'd wait for them.

My personal belief, is you don't NEED superheavies to win appoc games. You need numbers. Take an affiliated IG artillery unit - pack it full of manticores and armoured bassilisks and rule the first half of the game! Let your team mates mop up!

MajorWesJanson
03-11-2009, 01:14
Plastic warhounds, if they do them, will likely be closer to the Lucius pattern. The curves on the Mars pattern are just too big to fit on a sprue well, or even split into parts.
Mars pattern do look the nicest though.

Sildani
03-11-2009, 01:14
Plastic Warhound? How durst ye ken it cometh?

MajorWesJanson
03-11-2009, 03:28
It's not a rumor yet, but a prediction based on sales patterns for super-heavies. The Baneblade was first, both as a proof of concept for the size and price point. It also was usable for multiple armies. Then came the stompa at the same price point, testing army specific releases.

Likely next is a Thunderhawk at a higher price point to test the new price point as well as size of sprues and packaging. It makes sense to do as Marines are the most common, and the Hawk can be used for Inquisition, Chaos, and Orks. After that, the next likely models would be a Warhound, as it would be about the same price point as the THawk, and works for Imperium and Chaos, and can be bashed with the Stompa.

Drakon
03-11-2009, 03:37
plastic warhounds would be cool and even more option to wait on warhounds and just get reaver as its more likly id be able to add a warhound later than a reaver.

And yes what ever I get it will be the right colors not a space wolve color or something that wouldnt have titans ofr imperial bombers

BigJon
03-11-2009, 04:23
I'm sure with 4000 points of SW your not missing much in your army. I would look at
the APOC data sheets and special data sheets like the Land Raider Redeemer Hellstrike
Assault Force or Deathwing Orbital Strike Force or even better go with Sternhammers
Wulfen Guard.

Other than that think of adding an ally force of guard or AdMech and pick up a Super
Heavy of you choice.

Titans draw a lot of fire, with what you have listed think about a Shadowsword
Titan hunting group or Armageddon Stompa Hunting Group.

If you have your heart set on a FW model the Reaver Titan is a fantastic
kit, challanging to build and paint but supported well it can be a battlefield
god.

dblaz3r
03-11-2009, 04:52
Likely next is a Thunderhawk....

On the subject of the Thunderhawk, how much does the FW one weigh? Is it light enough to easily hold in one hand by your fingers only? I ask because in the September WD on page 55 one of the GW guys is holding one in a way that to me suggests it is either plastic or they are not as careful as I would be with a resin product of that price.

On topic you already know what I think and it seems the majority also agrees. ;)

self biased
03-11-2009, 04:56
i could buy a plastic warhound titan. any larger than that would strain credulity.

starlight
03-11-2009, 05:03
The answer is simple...


Get the one you will actually finish to a standard befitting the cost and and enjoy seeing on the table. :D

If it's straight usefulness-for-points, get a squadron or three of plastic Baneblades... :evilgrin: ...heck, get a whole regiment if you're in the Reaver price range... :eek:

If it's coolness factor, a Reaver still has that, but then a regiment of Baneblades is cool too, just in a different way. :D


Personally, I'm up for a pair of Mars Warhounds, and a squadron or two of Baneblades...but that's me... :D

self biased
03-11-2009, 05:13
i agree with starlight.

my eldar army will consist of mostly titans and other engines of vaul once i'm finished, though should a plastic thunderhawk hit the shelves i may not be able to resist purchasing one or two for my dark angels.

Alessander
03-11-2009, 05:18
Remember the FW thunderhawk is hollow with a fully detailed interior, so it's not as much resin as you expect.

With Apoc, superheavies are not mandatory except if the other armies have a lot of them. They are needed to cancel eachother out.

concider a couple imperial navy fighters. flyers, although weaker defensivly in 5th ed, are still very powerful and pretty much required if your facing other flyers (especially eldar!).

IMHO the T-hawk isn't that great other than being a transport, and Marines already have fast deployment via drop pods. Flyers got a big nerf in 5th ed, Thawks often end up being flying bunkers due to being frequently unable to shoot. Armor 12 doesn't help much against all the heavy guns out there, even with a constant 4+ cover save for skimmers moving fast.

Your best bet would be a titan, a plastic titan is either never coming or at least 4+ years away. Depending on how much money you have, a single reaver or a pair of warhounds seem good.

also consider getting older armorcast titans or superheavies from ebay. you can get 2 or 3 armorcast titans for the cost of a single FW one. with the rare custom heads out there for reavers, you have a lot of options.

Drakon
03-11-2009, 08:08
ive seen the armour cast and they dont seem to look as good in my opinion. but if yourve got a link ill have a better look.

What you said about the thunderhawk is exactly why i wont buy that. not much fire power and 3 drop pods can do the same thing and costs the wallet less.

When you say especially eldar flyers why especially them? one just brought the vampire hunter and two smaller planes so im interested in how tough they are

MajorWesJanson
03-11-2009, 11:02
Flyers got a big nerf in 5th ed, Thawks often end up being flying bunkers due to being frequently unable to shoot. Armor 12 doesn't help much against all the heavy guns out there, even with a constant 4+ cover save for skimmers moving fast.

Fliers count as stationary for shooting, no matter how fast they moved. Also, fliers don't get cover or give cover unless tharget is inside cover. And the Apoc book says that fliers get the old SMF, where pen hits downgrade to glancing.

laudarkul
03-11-2009, 12:00
Go for two Warhound Titans (one armed for anti-infantry; the other armed for anti-heavy duties). And if you can give them some 3xLR's or 3xBB's as a support would be perfect.

DigitsDavid
03-11-2009, 18:47
Your best bet would be a titan, a plastic titan is either never coming or at least 4+ years away.


Oh ye of little faith!

Drakon
03-11-2009, 18:54
Fliers count as stationary for shooting, no matter how fast they moved. Also, fliers don't get cover or give cover unless tharget is inside cover. And the Apoc book says that fliers get the old SMF, where pen hits downgrade to glancing.

Isnt it a 6 to hit a flyer? unless your anti aircraft which then you go of your BS. Thats why I def want a Imperial bomber if not now then next purchase will be one of them.

From Shadows
03-11-2009, 18:58
Go for the FW Eldar Scorpian. Or maybe a pair...;)

Drakon
16-11-2009, 06:51
ok I brought the Reaver titan with close combat and gat blaster. Now Im havint to figure out what color scheme to do.

I was thinking of the legion still based on mars. cant remember their name but I think its Ignotis? scheme is read black and yellow. can someone please confirm this or even provide a link for all the legions and their schemes.

MajorWesJanson
16-11-2009, 07:54
Legio Ignatum, the Fire Wasps.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fire_Wasps

BigMek
16-11-2009, 08:40
First of you need to face that apoc is not made to be balanced, it's made to be fun so don't look at stats, points, weapons...instead, look at models, which models grips you and screams "paint me paint me!" and pick that one, simple as that.

dblaz3r
16-11-2009, 09:24
I guess the 2 warhounds will have to wait. It's going to be a merry xmas for you this year. ;)
No doubted you've checked this link out already but if not.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions

Drakon
16-11-2009, 09:37
Legio Ignatum, the Fire Wasps.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fire_Wasps

Thank you thats them.


First of you need to face that apoc is not made to be balanced, it's made to be fun so don't look at stats, points, weapons...instead, look at models, which models grips you and screams "paint me paint me!" and pick that one, simple as that.

Thats why I brought the reaver. sure 2 warhounds have a better impact more guns etc but the reaver just looks soo much cooler on the battlefield and itll be so funny with everything focusing on him instead of everything else.

Plus big is bettter :evilgrin:


I guess the 2 warhounds will have to wait. It's going to be a merry xmas for you this year. ;)
No doubted you've checked this link out already but if not.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions

Yes but hopefully not too long :D. Still reackon you should do a 2000pt game against a reaver see if you could take it out with you DA :D

Whitehorn
16-11-2009, 10:36
Break the retcon. Take a formation of Leman Russ Exterminators Vanquishers :)

silentsmoke
16-11-2009, 16:49
Simple,if you are a FW whoar like me then all of them!!

Alessander
16-11-2009, 18:54
Fliers count as stationary for shooting, no matter how fast they moved. Also, fliers don't get cover or give cover unless tharget is inside cover. And the Apoc book says that fliers get the old SMF, where pen hits downgrade to glancing.

Apoc refers to the SMF rule from the rulebook, which has been updated. So instead of a 6+ to hit it's just a 4+ "obscured" cover save.

Drakon
16-11-2009, 20:00
SMF rule? whats this. and where does it state that. Had a game in the weekend which had enemy flyers which we just ignored because didnt want to waste shoots on them hoping for a 6

RCgothic
16-11-2009, 20:06
No, Alessander has it wrong.

Fliers are hit on a 6+ by shooting (unless AA or pintle mounted weapon), and cannot be hit in CC. This has not changed, it's a general part of the flier rules.

Fliers are also described as benefitting from the Skimmers Moving Fast rule. This used to be 'all hits may not do better than glance', and is now: '4+ obscured cover save'.