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aforce808
02-11-2009, 12:23
Hi all,

I have and play Dark Elves and Vamps (since 5th edition), and am wanted to play something underpowered since the new books have come out. I'm going to get started on a Kislev army, and was wondering if anyone else here has tried it. I understand that they aren't competative at all, but I love the models and flavor of the army. They may be boring to play with, but I can't wait to paint these guys up! I know they were meant to be played in tandem with the Empire, but I want an all-Kislev force. Perhaps I'll start an army blog or something. So, anyone here with a Kislev army have some pointers for me?

Doug

Keller
02-11-2009, 15:43
I've used a few of their units in my Empire army before, but never played a stand-alone Kislev force.

I realize you know the Kislevites are underpowered, but I would suggest combining them with Empire or DoW for a Kislev theme army. This would give you some more options for units, especially for magic defense.

You can use a DoW army,either with or without Kislev allied rules, and just model all units as Kislev ones. You can get access to some hero level mages, some normal characters (though Boyars are better) and get some infantry, aside from Kossars to support your medium cavalry.

Either way, I really like the idea of a kislev force. I wish GW would support them more, but since they won't even do a DoW army, I won't be holding my breath.

The Anarchist
02-11-2009, 16:10
i would second kellers advice do kislev with empire allies, even if this means you convert some of the empire to be more kislev themed. Kislev is a amazing army, so different! to see on the battlefeild, i think for the msot part you wills struggle tacticly. i would advise using them in a similar vein to WE, hit and run as much as possible, straight up combats you are likely to be mauled by super heavy units of the new edition.

aforce808
02-11-2009, 18:01
Thanks for the input guys. I was considering using them with DoW allies. I'll have to see what I can come up with for modeling ideas! :-)

Doug

Arkh
02-11-2009, 20:34
I used to play a full Kislev army... And actually managed about 50/50 win to loss ratio. However given today's standards for what you need in your army I'd be impressed if I were to manage a 1/10 ratio. No scroll caddies, no rare choices, no special choices worth taking, no lord choices that aren't special characters.

The only thing they have going for them is Boris and solid fast cav.

Edit: also... be ready to pay good money for the army. Kislev models are hard to find and expensive even if you do find them.

Cypher, the Emperor
02-11-2009, 20:37
Kislev have awesome cav, since IIRC, they always count as flanking or somesuch nonsense

Cambion Daystar
02-11-2009, 20:42
Kislev have awesome cav, since IIRC, they always count as flanking or somesuch nonsense

Actually no, the special rule the have "glorious charge" or something along those lines doesn't do anything!

It makes you take a panic test as if you were charged in the flank while already being engaged, and that doesn't exist in 7th edition anymore. (you never take psychology tests when engaged in combat or fleeing).

LaughinGremlin
02-11-2009, 23:23
Just because other armies don't get "strength in numbers," that doesn't mean that Skaven can't use their special rule.

Wouldn't the "glorious charge" rule be a "special rule" that still applies? So what if the other armies don't get bonuses anymore in 7th. Kislev has a special rule, so why should it be ignored?

Bingo the Fun Monkey
03-11-2009, 10:09
Because it doesn't have a bolt gun or giant shoulder pads. It's not glorious without either of those.

mistrmoon
03-11-2009, 19:34
Kislev is awesome, don't forget you can ally them with dwarfs as well! That way you can have some solid back bone to your army.

Anvilbrow
04-11-2009, 06:18
I have and use a Kislev-only force. As mentioned before, they are big on flavor (granted few flavors, but they're good ones) but really underpowered by today's standards.

No magic.
No war machines.
No elite infantry.
No heavy cavalry.
Limited heroes.

They do have pretty good infantry, for what it is. Low save, low T/S. With a Boyar they are pretty good. Very good light/medium cav. A couple of good special characters, especially Boris.

When I have played them for league/campiagn play, my gaming group typically allows me to augment the army with a couple of selections from the Empire/DOW list as Kislev choices. For example: Ice wizards using Empire rules, archers, and my own favorite- the War Wagon (using the old rules from 4th/5th ed with slightly modified equipment and point values it has 6 Kossars in it, equipped as normal Kossars i.e. bows and great weapons, heavy chariot etc) I'm currently working on the model using Mordheim Kislevites and Kossar models.

RealMikeBob
04-11-2009, 10:52
No magic? :confused:

I though Kislev had a lore all to themselves? The Lore of Ice or Frost or something :confused:

Festus
04-11-2009, 11:03
Hi

Yes, they have their own Lore, but only the Tzarina is able to use it ... :(

As for glorious Charge: Talk to your oponents first. I believe it is fair and reasonable to make them take a Panic check if charged by WL or GL respectively.
It is simple and straightforward.

Greetings
Festus

Keller
04-11-2009, 12:01
I have and use a Kislev-only force. As mentioned before, they are big on flavor (granted few flavors, but they're good ones) but really underpowered by today's standards.

No magic.
No war machines.
No elite infantry.
No heavy cavalry.
Limited heroes.

They do have pretty good infantry, for what it is. Low save, low T/S. With a Boyar they are pretty good. Very good light/medium cav. A couple of good special characters, especially Boris.

When I have played them for league/campiagn play, my gaming group typically allows me to augment the army with a couple of selections from the Empire/DOW list as Kislev choices. For example: Ice wizards using Empire rules, archers, and my own favorite- the War Wagon (using the old rules from 4th/5th ed with slightly modified equipment and point values it has 6 Kossars in it, equipped as normal Kossars i.e. bows and great weapons, heavy chariot etc) I'm currently working on the model using Mordheim Kislevites and Kossar models.

That sounds fair, using these choices to make Kislev playable as a whole army. Its far from over the top, and it seems the choices you've made are all pretty good for the Kislev background. I loved the Kislev models, but only have a dozen or so of the light-cav w/ bows.

I miss the War Wagon, and wish it to return to the Empire next edition....

Angry Lawyer
04-11-2009, 14:07
Actually no, the special rule the have "glorious charge" or something along those lines doesn't do anything!

It makes you take a panic test as if you were charged in the flank while already being engaged, and that doesn't exist in 7th edition anymore. (you never take psychology tests when engaged in combat or fleeing).

I don't understand this line of thinking. As far as I remember, it states something akin to "The charged unit takes a panic test, as if it were charged in the side while engaged in combat to the front". The statement's in an [action][comparison with existing action] form - the second part's just there to compare against a similar instance of Panic taking place. The second part no longer existing doesn't make the first part invalid.

Arguing that Kislev cavalry don't get a benefit on the charge is similar to folks saying that Fanatics explode upon moving across open ground, because open ground is a type of terrain and therefore triggers their death.

And when your opponent is using a Kislev force, they've got an uphill struggle on their hands as it is. Why try to remove an ability that they've paid the points for, when you've already got a massive advantage? It's a bit of a WAACy thing to do.

-Angry Lawyer

sabre4190
04-11-2009, 15:24
Yeah, alone they are incredibly weak. They have one unit of core infantry, one fast cavalry, and two somewhat generic heavy calvary units. You have one hero choice, and no options for magic of any kind.

If you want to make a full kislev themed list, use either dogs of war or empire. Empire gives you some solid hero choices, and a few more bizzare mechanical things. Dogs of War has alot more crazy options in general, and is weaker when it comes to ranged attacks. They also have pikemen, which you can convert out of kossars. Depending on your style, either can work.

Just keep in mind that it is almost impossible to find kislev stuff in bulk anywhere. Your best choice is ebay. Alternativey, you could convert other models to look like kislevites, but that would probably be a big challenge.

mrtn
04-11-2009, 16:32
If I were to start a Kislev army I'd check out The Assault Group's Renaissance models, especially the Russians and Poles.

CommissarKlink
04-11-2009, 18:34
Your best choice is ebay. Alternatively, you could convert other models to look like kislevites, but that would probably be a big challenge.

If you're at all comfortable with converting, I suggest making kossars out of high-elf archers, with the crescent moon iconography filed off and the heads swapped for bearded empire human heads. Add some great weapons, maybe greenstuff some extra fur, and you're set.

I plan to do this myself as soon as my next paycheck comes through.

burad
04-11-2009, 22:36
There are a few great gamer-generated Kislev troop lists out there, with additional troop types that would make it into a viable force. You can get a good idea of what ought to be typically available to Kislev if you read Realm of the Ice Queen.
In general, the book gives you more ice witches, various kinds of priests, at least a couple units of arquebus-armed infantry with great axes, cannons (not great cannons), a small knightly order or two, and perhaps a unit of bears with handlers. If you don't go overboard with exotic stuff you can make a quite believable and fun playable list. You just have to resist the all-too-common tendency a lot of folks have of making oodles of new magic items. And since it's all in an official Warhammer book, it's got some legitimacy to it.
If i ever get all my other stuiff done I'm going to do a Kislev force. Already have a bunch of the minis. And yeah, you gotta get lucky on ebay to find them now.

burad
04-11-2009, 22:37
If I were to start a Kislev army I'd check out The Assault Group's Renaissance models, especially the Russians and Poles.

Yeah. Second that, and their Cossacks.

ChaosVC
05-11-2009, 02:39
I always thought that you can never play a kislev army without including Empire troops into the army. If anyone read the novels "Ambassador" and "Riders of the Dead" will realized that Kislev armies are incomplete without empire troops.I suppose the ally contigent list is the only way to play kislev armies. Pure Kislev army is but an idea right now.

If only GW make an official one, people can be very anal when it comes to rules...