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View Full Version : Dark Angels Landraider vs Space Marine Landraiders:



self biased
03-11-2009, 03:05
i will be attending a tournament at the end of the month, and the TO has told me that i can use the rules out of the forgeworld update for my landraiders if i so choose, with the caveat that i may only select 'raiders from either my codex, or the update.

the army is a 1500 point deathwing army with belial, a close combat squad, two shooty squads with assault cannon and one chainfist per squad, a lascannon mortis dreadnought, a Land Raider, and a Land Raider Crusader. belial and the close combat squad go in the crusader.

i'm curious about the relative merits of taking the older land raider over the newer one. should i go with the older land raider, i get an arguably weaker machine spirit, but smoke launchers that offer glancing hits only and still (possibly, depending on the ruling from the TO) allow for me to get cover saves from being obscured.

so, warseer, what are your thoughts on this?

Lord Lorne Walkier
03-11-2009, 03:38
Go with the new rules. They can transport 12, up from 10. The Smoke launcher rules will most likely be the new ones even if you have a old codex. The Machine Spirit also has BS 4, up from 2. Sponson mounted Multi melta is nice also.

Writerski7
03-11-2009, 03:50
Yeah, I doubt they'll let you get away withh the glancing thing. Can you pop smoke every turn?

burning crome
03-11-2009, 04:00
Smoke launchers are a BBB rule now so no glancing. The lastest FW update makes the LR transport 10 again to stop SW abusing the rules but most people won't notices if your using an older update.

Drakon
03-11-2009, 04:09
what you mean SW abusing the rules? why would we bother using the FW LR rules?

self biased
03-11-2009, 04:29
Go with the new rules. They can transport 12, up from 10. The Smoke launcher rules will most likely be the new ones even if you have a old codex. The Machine Spirit also has BS 4, up from 2. Sponson mounted Multi melta is nice also.

redownload the forgeworld update; they've revised it and brought the transport capacity back down to ten. they've also dropped the cost of mortis dreadnoughts by ten points base.


Yeah, I doubt they'll let you get away withh the glancing thing. Can you pop smoke every turn?


Smoke launchers are a BBB rule now so no glancing. The lastest FW update makes the LR transport 10 again to stop SW abusing the rules but most people won't notices if your using an older update.

regarding smoke launchers, the dark angels codex clearly has its own rules for both power of the machine spirit and smoke launchers. the books are still in my car, so i can't provide a description, but the codex overrides the main rulebook, and my codex says* that smoke launchers allow glancing hits only the turn they are used. using the 12 capacity raiders would be wholly dishonest, as my TO is aware of this and has been the subject to much discussion between us.

another benefit to using the Dark Angels Machine spirit is that there is a clause that allows me to move even if the crew is stunned, which can be quite valuable. tonight i was able to deliver my close combat terminators into a squad of broadsides because of this; were i using the forgeworld rules, i wouldn't have been able to do this.

the biggest reason to use the FW update 'raiders is to take advantage of the new machine spirit's ability to fire one additional weapon regardless of the distance moved, and at a separate target.

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* the dark angels codex also says something to the effect that landspeeders that were purchased as a part of ravenwing attack squads are still scoring units even though they must be split off from the rest of the squad. there are some that argue that this basically states that dark angels landspeeders are scoring units, which is not a discussion i want to have in this thread. the logic is the same: the codex overrides the main rulebook. in the case of the machine spirit and smoke launchers it is marginally more clear.

Occulto
03-11-2009, 04:30
Smoke launchers are a BBB rule now so no glancing.

Codex trumps rulebook. DA smoke launchers still confer glancing hits. :p

self biased
03-11-2009, 04:32
shinobi no biased.

m_r_parker
03-11-2009, 13:57
I can't honestly remember whether the FW LR / LRC are more expensive that the Dark Angel counterparts. Provided they're somewhat similar (and push established army builds over their limits), then I would go with the newer FW rules. I think this is especially good for the regular pattern Land Raider, being able to move forward 6" and still fire both sponsons on BS4 and at different targets makes it somewhat appealing in my eyes. The Crusader is a little less beneficial, as the Hurrican Bolters are defensive weapons anyway (always good when moving 6") and the sheer number of shots they can throw out makes Twin Linked BS2 seem not too shabby.

I also agree that the Tournie Organiser may decide to superimpose the newer Smoke Launcher rules on you, regardless of the codex that you play - techincally they can't, but it is their tourny after all.

self biased
03-11-2009, 14:10
the tourney organizer has said that if i use the new machine spirit rules i must use the new smoke launchers. if i stick to what's in my codex, i can use the old rules. the cost for a LRC is identical, just the multi-melta is included in the cost.

the biggest thing is that these things are being used as housing and delivery systems for my terminators, and the new machine spirit doesn't have any provisions for movement in it.

Eldoriath
03-11-2009, 15:28
If mobility is the greatest concern, go with the old machine spirit so you won't have to get extra armor. Sure, you have a slightly worse machine spirit at shooting, but considering that you can drive up 12", pop glancing smokes which will almost certainly allow you to move another 12" forward or in the least make sure your termies won't get shot at.

self biased
03-11-2009, 15:59
the more that i think of it, the only thing that the new machine spirit excels at is shooting whilst moving more than six inches. the older one serves my purposes better.

badguyshaveallthefun
03-11-2009, 17:02
The older one is much better in my opinion. The older land raider is cheaper points wise, as you have to pay extra points if you want that multi-melta, and you have to buy extra armor if you want to keep it moving. EDIT: A Pintle Mounted Storm Bolter is twice as many points for our Space Marine brethren as it is for us DA players (just remembered that). The new machine spirit is only good if you plan to use the land raider as a firebase, as being able to fire at multiple targets, and all at BS4 is the only redeeming feature of the new POTMS.

Thud
03-11-2009, 17:04
I suggest going with the DA rules.

My main opponent is a DW player and if there's one thing I hate it's his damned smoke launchers!