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Jind_Singh
09-11-2009, 18:03
Hey all, I'm an experianced Warhammer player and currently play Empire, Orcs & Goblins, and sometimes I'll bring out Deamons of Chaos upon special request from the opponenet.
I typically go for themed armies, but can pull out a tough list if the occasion calls for it (like last weekends tournment, my Empire came 4th and had 3 units of Knights (6 with msc), 3 units of pistolliers (5 with msc, chmp), Steam Tank, 3 Warrior Priests on barded horses), and I faced a leadership bomb Slaanesh DoC, Vampires, Dwarves.

But I'm scratching my head when it comes to Ogres! Now I have an unassembled OK force, and I'm taking part of an army builder campaing (250pts each month).

I have looked at the OK tactica thread but it's very disjointed in places - so I ask anyone who has experiance with Ogres - how do you do it?

I have;

10 Bulls
10 Ironguts (inc a bellower, standard, champion)
8 Lead Belchers
80 Gnoblar Fighters
8 Gnoblar Trappers
6 Yehtees
4 Maneaters
2 Slave Giants

Tyrant model (Great Weapon)
Butcher Model
Hunter Model (Well actually I am picking him today as I love his looks!)

My 1st 250pts will be a Hunter with 6 Trappers - they have been sent out to scout out new lands for the tribe. Thanks to bloody Greasus Goldtooth the tribes are at peace within the Ogre Kingdoms, so we need more room! My Hunter and his trappers have made it to the region close to the Black Fire Pass were they will either hire themselves out to the forces of Averland or take sides with the greenskins (As my Empire is Averland, so why not?!).
The 1st 250pts is played as warhammer skirmish, we play fantasy from 500pts and up.

I am not looking for a uber competive army list, but I would like to be able to go toe-to-toe with at LEAST some of the armies out there!

Any advice would be GREATLY & HUGELY appreciated! :D

thanks - and sorry if the thread post is too long - I loves to ramble!

blackjack
09-11-2009, 18:08
Ogres - Can they cut the mustard?

No.


Almost any semi competitive list will tear them apart.

Finn Sourscowl
09-11-2009, 18:11
My MSU Ogre army has been pretty successful against friends, but I've never tested it in a tourny setting. Basically, lots of 3-4 Ogres per unit with lots of units, both Bulls and Ironguts. Supported by yhettees ('cause they look great!), a tyrant who either wanders around by himself or joins a unit of bulls, a hunter (again cause he looks cool), a few units of gnoblers to grab table quarters and a pair of butchers for magic support and the army is quite strong.

I also use Leadbelchers to hold flanks - they deter fast cav quite well.

Oh, and a scrap launcher which in the 4 or so games it's turned up in has always done far more damage charging units than with the launcher itself :)

Good luck with them, I know they're not everyone's cup of tea and many people view them as highly uncompetative, but I really like the way the army plays and looks :)

Laurela
09-11-2009, 18:14
I haven't had much success with my OK armies. But let me tell you, they are one of the most fun armies to play with. And painting, converting, assembling them is always a blast, probably the most fun painting I've had.

Finn Sourscowl
09-11-2009, 18:26
And painting, converting, assembling them is always a blast, probably the most fun painting I've had.

I'd second that! Because of their large size, each of my Ogres is painted to a very high standard (for me!!) - which makes the army look great :)

Jind_Singh
09-11-2009, 18:28
I was thinking those gnoblars are pretty cheap - 40pts a unit.
Is it viable to have say 3-4 units as your 1st wave, send them forwards and wheel them so if they get charged you can direct were the opponet goes. Once they engage in comabt (or die, or run) you can then send in the ogres on the flanks, I'll also have 2-3 units (MSU) behind the gnoblars.
Yhettes I also love - not just for the model (which actually is a love-hate model, no in between!) will also flank, support them with leadbelchers (2 strong per unit).
My main hitting unit might be 5-6 big with command and magic bannor.
Scrap launcher moves forwards on flanks and fires at large units until it can charge
I use trappers to scout ahead and be a nusicnce - unleash fanatics or march block - hey, they might even kill off a warmachine crew!
I am stuck for the characters though - so BLOODY EXPENSIVE!!!
Tyrant seems pretty good, but then again a brusier is as tough as most armies lords - and cheaper too. Slaughter masters - I heard you either take 3 or none.
Is that true?
And actually biggest problem I am having is seeing what I can afford in a 2250 list! Sadly I always want and need more than I can afford in points!

O&G'sRule
09-11-2009, 19:34
I think theyre struggling now. Tyrants used to win almost any challenge when they 1st came out, now I can't remember the last time I saw one win one (against a lord choice) The power they once had just isn't enough to overcome the other problems anymore

KillbotFactory
09-11-2009, 20:39
Ogres really are an outdated army book. In 6th edition when they came out they were bottom tier, now they are kind of a joke.

But don't let the super competitiveness of the army stop you that much, with enough practice and in a friendly setting they could do alright. If you are really set on making them just go in with the attitude that it will take lots of work and practice to get going.

MTUCache
09-11-2009, 21:00
Almost any semi competitive list will tear them apart.
I'm not saying they're even mediocre, but I think that may be overstating it just a bit.

OK have the capability to fight dirty, and with the current comp-systems in place I think it's actually acceptable to completely cheese-out the Ogres without anyone complaining.

Maxing out some of the stronger parts of the army (whether that's 3xButchers, 4x2 Leadbelchers, multiple-Rhinox, dual-Gorgers, etc) does get you near a competitive balance with a semi-competitive, middle-tier army. I don't think you'll ever have the tools to stand toe-to-toe with a tournament DoC/VC/DE army, but there's no reason why a cheesed-out OK army couldn't stand a decent shot at taking down your average build. Some matchups will be better than others, and heroic-level dice rolling may be required, but at least you would feel that you could win a game when you sat down, rather than just going through the motions.

That being said, I'd toss being competitive right out the window, and just enjoy the great modelling and building opportunities available in the OK range.

In smaller-scale battles (without all the lord level characters and heavy-magic), I think you may actually find OK to be much more competitive than at a larger point-size. (I have no experience here, but I have a feeling that many armies will struggle to come up with enough tools to take out a dozen ogres without any heavy magic and with only one or two warmachines.)

On top of that, depending on how long this campaign lasts, you may be putting together a large Ogre army just in time for a new, more competitive army book. How rewarding would that be? To put up with getting your **** handed to you for the better part of a year only to show up at the end of the campaign with a rock-hard army that starts wiping the floor with people? :p

narrativium
09-11-2009, 22:10
No.
Almost any semi competitive list will tear them apart.
Yes. They can be competitive, but it takes skill and practice. They are, paradoxically, very much a finesse force for an army with such a brute force image.

Witchblade
09-11-2009, 22:33
Tyrants, butchers, maneaters and gorgers... ask your opponent to allow rhinox riders.

AlmightyNocturnus
09-11-2009, 22:35
Some quick suggestions that other posters have not addressed*

Huge units of Gnoblars can be useful, but not exactly as you have described. I find that even large units get swept when charged (remember, no banner, so just unit strength and ranks for CR) cause they excell at dying. They are also much slower than Ogre units. I find the work better coming around and side charging after your Ogre units kind of race across and get an early charge (but don`t break the unit). Since the Gnoblars don`t cause panic, many people alternate Ogre-Gnoblar-Ogre-Gnoblar set-ups during deployment to achieve the above result.

The Hunter really does not have a place in the OK army now. I`ve tried a million times to make him useful or even relavant...but sadly...

Once you hit the 1000 or 1250 point mark, you are going to want to get a second Butcher. You`ll want a thrid at 2000 points. If you spam them, you can some degree of control in the magic phase. Plus, they fight pretty well too.

Every Bull, Iron Gut, and Lead Belcher unit needs a bellower. Ogre Banners suck a$$ so maybe just one SB with Warbanner in your main hammer unit (usually 3-4 Iron Guts + Tyrant with Tenderizer. Bait and flee with 2-3 man Leadbelcher units (after unloading on their units) to set up charges with MSU Iron Guts or Bull units with two hand weapons.

Lastly, pray to the Great Maw that you never have to go up against a Star Dragon.

Almighty Nocturnus

wilzif
10-11-2009, 00:13
I would say Ogres are able to hold their own, but only in certain battles.

At the moment I'm doing reasonably well with my OK army, but I have been taking stronger lists than I would do with my empire or skaven for example.

As previous posters have said, if you come up against a tournament army from any other race, you will get beaten more than likely. But if you are playing with friends/club opponents they can have some success.

I vary between two slight variants at the moment. I have 2 units of yhetees, and 2 gorgers, and tend to alternate between the two. Both have their uses, it really depends on your playstyle and what you're up against.


My usual list is something along these lines. Bulls have extra hand weapons. I have one standard maximum and all ogre units have a bellower. This is for 2,000pt battles:

Tyrant
3 x Butcher
2 x 3 Bulls
2 x 3 Guts
1 x 4 Guts
Trappers
Fighters x 2
2 Gorgers (or 2 x 3 Yhetees)

I try not to use much in the way of magic items. A scroll, or two if you prefer, the obligatory bangstick and the skullmantle is a favourite. For the tyrant, the tenderiser is very common, but I like to mix and match. I would also consider kineater, and or fistful of laurels as ogres run lots!

Hope you enjoy the army. They're a challenge, but I think that makes for better games.

Jind_Singh
10-11-2009, 06:39
what do you think about this???

Tyrant, siege breaker (+3 str, to hit is WS v's enemy initive), wyrd stone (5+ ward), daemon-killer scar (terror), wall crusher (Who can say no to 1 extra impact hit at str 5!)
Hunter, 2 Sabre Tusks,mastadon armour (Go chase warmachines, watch him sing

"I get knocked down,
But I get up again,
You aint never gonna keep me down!"

Butcher, bangstick (why not, 3+ bound spell), dispell scroll

3 Yhettes
3 Yhettes
2 Leadbelchers, bellower

3 Bulls, bellower
3 Bulls, bellower
3 Bulls, bellower
20 Sword Gnobblars
20 Sword Gnobblars
20 Sword Gnobblars
8 Gnobblar Trappers
5 Iron Guts, FC, Look-out Gnobblar, Rune Maw
4 Iron Guts, Bellower

Plan is to send forth 1st wave of Bulls/Gnobblars - and run the Hunter up as fast as he goes. Trappers pop out, Yhettees scamper forth in cover.
2nd line moves up to get into posistion - Keep the Leadbelchers back in reserve though to deal with outflankers in the other army.
Once the 1st wave is engaged (and most likely dead) send in the 2nd wave to mop up.

Not the most effective way to play them perhaps but I am brain storming - just let me know if this wont work!!!

PS - I just bought the Hunter model today, he looks so nice I cant bring myself to drop him yet!

Jind_Singh
10-11-2009, 07:35
Oh! Another question - what are you all trying out for painting techniques for the Ogre Skin tones?
And has anyone seen a sabre tusk that actually looks nice? I cant stand the models - too comic like for my tastes.

mrjellybeans
10-11-2009, 07:39
While the Siege breaker is ok on a tyrant, I always go for the big T and give the SB to a butcher for a nice suprise.

I have never tried out the mastadon armour as it is overpriced imo, but on a hunter it might work against empire or dwarves.

The rest looks solid, though it might take a few games to get the hang of this army. A great site for ogre tactics is here (http://ogrestronghold.com/main/index.php). The stronghold is always willing to help new ogre players.

Vermin-thing
10-11-2009, 08:10
Hey Jind!

Wile reading this thread I've been thinking, how on earth are OK going to stand up at all ageist the might of the verminous horde?

*I don't play OK, but I still know a thing or two about them*

Ok are one of those armys where min-maxing is the way to go.

Butchers are invaluable, you should just proxy your hunter as one.
Go for: bruser, bruser, butcher, or one bruser, and two butchers.

Point for point I think the Bruser beats the tyrant, unless you really need that extra point of Ld.

Minimum units of bulls with a bellower will do you wonders, and remember to bring tones of gnoblars along as well.

Deploy your units in a line across the board starting with:

LBs, gnoblars, Bulls, gnoblars, Bulls, iron guts (general), bulls, gnoblars, LBs.

The second line should be:
LBs, gnoblars, rinox riders, gnoblars, slavegiant (or some other thing), rinox riders, LBs

The thrid line is the most important:
Gnoblars, bulls with butcher, gnoblars, bulls with butcher, gnoblars, bulls with butcher, gnoblars.


The front line should have the gnoblars deployed an inch in frount of the bulls so the apponent is forced to charge the more numerous troops.

orkz222
10-11-2009, 08:25
I played against OK quite a few times, if use by a good player they are very strong except against certain armies. :D

The regular Ok player i face uses 2-3 ogres units with 4-5 ogres in each unit including characters to pierce through my battleline then overrun as far as possible into my deployment zone. Then swing around to flank or rear charge my units who are held in combat with maneaters, giant etc... or charge the shooty stuffs in my zone. Using magic/item to boost his orges units stats and also killing anything (heavy calvary, mage assasination) that may pose a threat to his ogres.

O&G'sRule
10-11-2009, 14:05
Tyrants, butchers, maneaters and gorgers... ask your opponent to allow rhinox riders.

Rhinox do help alot

Jind_Singh
10-11-2009, 17:52
I played against OK quite a few times, if use by a good player they are very strong except against certain armies. :D


Pray tell, which are the certain armies??? I am very curious about this as lots of people have posted similar views.

Thanks!!

:D

N810
10-11-2009, 17:59
I have pited my Lizardmen against then many times in fights 1000-250 point battles,
and at least at these point values I find them a prety tough oponent.

Then again I am not runing super cheezy list either.

Bob the Butcher
10-11-2009, 18:00
The Ogre Stronghold is the best place for Tactics.

Ogres are considered one of the weakest armies at present along with BoC (which looks like being updated).

3 main schools of thought with Ogres

1. MSU as mentioned
2. Paradigm Deathstar
3. Skrag (Gorger) lists if special characters are allowed

Rhinox are a Rare troop type found in one of the White Dwarves. They are allowed in most Tournies in Canada, Australia and certain European Countries. Take them if they are allowed they hit hard.

Ogres can win vs most armies if used properly. Though there is a skill to winning which is great for improving your Generalship skills.

The Ogres will struggle vs. the big 3 VC's, DE's & Daemons.

willowdark
10-11-2009, 18:06
They're good against DE. High toughness, multi-wound troops soak up a lot of shooting and magic before showing any signs of it, especially against the traditional 3 Butcher set. Dual Gorgers are aweful against most anything, but are a nightmare for DE missile troops, neutralizing them pretty quickly.

MSU, first wave Bulls can redirect anything the DE can throw at them, again, especially with 3 Butchers spaming gut magic against Harpies and Dark Riders. Standard single caddy + Ring has little effect on a good Ogre magic phase, which is potent against support troops. they have bull charge against ASF, and in subsequent rounds the enemy needs to due a lot of wounds to reduce attacks back.

Yetties (sp?), while ignoring terrain are excellent at exploiting Hatred. A good flank charge on knights will pull them away from the fight. In fact, even threatening knights with Yetties will force the DE player to regroup. Advantage: Ogres.

Take Farstryder on your Tyrant and once the fight get's close, which it will quickly, -POW!- he comes flying out to cleanup the first thing he gets his hands on, easily avoiding characters.

Ogres are very poweful against all forms of Elves, whether High, Dark or Wood. And I see them regularly massacre WoC armies for most of the same reasons.

Jind_Singh
10-11-2009, 18:29
Starting to like this!!!
Excellent news all round, I had a feeling that the Fat Boyz were not as bad as people made them out to be - actually my fear is running across Empire with all their mad access to Str 4 weapons - crossbows, handgunners, pistolliers, outriders - all of them can make easy work of my poor armoured Guts - as I dont see the point in dishing out so many points for ironfists and light armour - 5+ save? Big deal! Rather grab another MSU of bulls.
When I was theory hammering the OK about a year ago I envisged the multiple battle lines so will be interesting to see how it actually works in real games.

Jind_Singh
10-11-2009, 18:31
And is taking 3 butchers really the only way to go? I am really looking forward to using the Hunter model, the Tyrant, and took 1 Butcher as otherwise I have to sacrifice another unit.
Actually am thinking of a list were I take just 1 character (like a tyrant) and use the extra 4-500 points I saved to grab a ton of units, just out horde the enemy with endless waves of ogres!

Jind_Singh
10-11-2009, 18:51
Tyrant - Siege Breaker, Wyrdstone necklace, Daemon killer scars, wall crusher

3 Bulls (Bellower)
3 Bulls (Bellower)
3 Bulls (Bellower)
20 Gnoblar Fighters (Groin Biter)
20 Gnoblar Fighters (Groin Biter)
20 Gnoblar Fighters (Groin Biter)
4 Iron Guts (Bellower)
4 Iron Guts (Bellower)
4 Iron Guts (Bellower)

2 Leadbelchers (Bellower)
2 Leadbelchers (Bellower)
3 Yhetees
3 Yhetees

Gorger
Gorger

2251 - if it is a tournment then I drop 1 Groin Biter to make it 2249!!!

No magic defence, but tons of models, 16 units on the field of battle!!! Glorious!

Keller
10-11-2009, 19:36
And is taking 3 butchers really the only way to go? I am really looking forward to using the Hunter model, the Tyrant, and took 1 Butcher as otherwise I have to sacrifice another unit.
Actually am thinking of a list were I take just 1 character (like a tyrant) and use the extra 4-500 points I saved to grab a ton of units, just out horde the enemy with endless waves of ogres!

Taking 4 characters (thus 3 Butchers) is far too expensive, IMHO. I only ever run 3 characters max in a 2K Ogre army. Butchers are certainly the best option, providing usefule spells and all important magic defence, but they certainly aren't the only way to go.

I typically run a Tyrant, 1 butcher, and either a butcher or Hunter, depending on my mood. Or, if I want to mix things up, I will run a Tyrant, 2 Hunters, and just overwhelm the enemy with independent characters that can take on units, backed by units of their own, of course!



This really makes me want to play my Ogres again....

Toads77
10-11-2009, 19:54
One major problem I see is panic, with so many small units you can't have all (or even half) inside the generals LD bubble. just three wounds to panic a unit which is on average LD7 and potentially other units around them.

I would definitely recommend one butcher, just for the 1 dice spam, even if he's bare bones. He can potentially cast 4 spells on a 3+ which have some pretty damn good effects, so even only one ever goes off it can really effect the game, and he's not too bad it combat either, and get scrolls.

Gnoblars are great for their cost, they can even threaten large targets with their mutli-shot sharp stuff. (is it str 2? if it is then it can't harm T6 stuff, but is great for giant hunting)



Can't wait to try this list out with my gobbos. :)

Keller
10-11-2009, 20:11
I would definitely recommend one butcher, just for the 1 dice spam, even if he's bare bones. He can potentially cast 4 spells on a 3+ which have some pretty damn good effects, so even only one ever goes off it can really effect the game, and he's not too bad it combat either, and get scrolls. Butchers are great characters, in that they are still better than many races fighting characters even though they are mages. I often will give mine some magic weapons and look to drive them into combat; their T5 W5 is usually plenty of protection for them. Their only downside is Ws3, but that can be remideed by the Siege Breaker weapon against some armies.

CrownAxe
10-11-2009, 20:32
What is the Paradigm Deathstar?

TheDarkDuke
11-11-2009, 04:32
A very simple statement sums up the best Ogre Kingdoms can be.

Ogre units are your material, the rest are your glue.

I have a very good record with OK, against old and new books. Heck I have faced the "DE power builds" and yes have yet to pull off a win in 4 games but have only lost once and that was the first game my brother and I used the DE book and we played Eternal Hatred like 6th edition... needless to say that was the turning point... oh and me wanting to see a slave giant tangle with a hydra... 3 rounds of fun combat, one head bump stuns 5 heads? lol

Tyrants can be beasts, if you set them up right. I have come to using nothing more then a GW with as much defense as possible.

Bruisers I completely avoid unless in a small game where they are your only general option.

Hunter, imo need 2x sabretusks, they function as great war machine/lone mage hunters, and can help with flanking and large beasts, march blocking/interupting enemy fast cav with tusks.

Butcher, I tend to take two at 2000, halfling cook book and bang stick are two solid arcane items, dispel scrolls should be taken as well.

Bulls are fielded in only two ways to be cost effective. No upgrades, or the works (light armor and ironfists). Two trains of thought are units of 3, 4 or 8 ogres per unit. I tend to enjoy a hammer unit of 6 bulls with the works, tyrant and butcher together and some 3 ogre bare bone units.

Ironguts are some heavy hitters but more fragile then bulls despite heavy armor. A unit of 4 are nice at 2000, 8 at 3000 can be nasty.

Gnoblar, table corner holders for cheap, can protect rear, up against a gun line, a long thin line will slow you down but save you some extra wounds.

Trappers, effective with a hunter for march blocking/fast cav interuption.

Yheetee are imo the best flankers in the game. They can go full steam ahead without slowing down, they can go through any terrain, 3 wounds lots of magical attacks and -1 to hit in cc make them the best unit in the army book imo. Many people when I first play them look at me and go Yheetee? and 6 of them at 2000? They have always become a pain in the **** unit.

Leadbelchers unit size of 2, 3 or 4 are all debatable. They act more as a "don't get too close" unit or flank protecting unit in fear of a nasty kill radius. Combined with a scrap launcher can make for a very scary kill zone on a flank.

Scrap launcher are quite hit or miss. See above.

Maneaters at 2000 points I have only ever fielded a single maneater to help hold down a flank as a hunters back up as they are pricey. At 3000+ a unit of 4 with a combination of 2 cathay long swords and 2 great weapons with heavy armor make for a pretty stubborn flank protector/assaulter.

Gorger hit and miss depending on the turn they enter. If they enter early then the rear of your enemies lines is annoying and great at taking out any war machines. If they show up late then they are lack luster.

Slave Giant, many look at it and go its just not a giant and discard it. It serves it role imo as a distraction. The "oh look" better bring it down, taking ranged attacks away from ogres/yheetee this equals win. The reverse is enemy ignores it and now you have an unscathed giant going into the enemies ranks. While not uber scary it can hold a unit down and slowly wear them down.

The magic items are pretty bad, most are never takes. Bullgut, Spangle Shard, Daemon Killer Scars, Rag Banner, Bang Stick, Halfling Cook Book are the only useful ones that really come to mind. Big names again are not overly useful I think I have only ever taken one or two, Death Cheater mainly on a Tyrant with a Luck-Gnoblar.

Ogres certainly even with the success I have had with them need some revamps. Bull Charge is over costed and not effective. Bull Club rule again seems to be a bit over priced and normally removed for greater survival ability or replaced with great killing power. Ogres could use a Lizardmen like scaly skin save to help against ranged damage. While poison is a tricky problem as it simply devastates everything other then gnoblars in the army, making it the one true unbeatable thing Ogres will face.

orkz222
11-11-2009, 05:29
Pray tell, which are the certain armies??? I am very curious about this as lots of people have posted similar views.

Thanks!!

:D

VC and DOC :cries:

I seen DOC "tabled" OK in 3 turns. If Ogres cant break the unit on the turn they charge, they will eventually get wipeout... though they maybe some exceptions due to dice gods fooling around with dice rolls.

IMO ogres unit are like speeding train, they need to keep moving and knock/destroy anything that get in their way. If they crash into something they cant destroy they will lose momentum.

Jind_Singh
11-11-2009, 07:13
You may be called the "thedarkduke" but you added some rays of sunshine into my 'mind testing' the Ogres. After much pondering and talking to players who either run OK or face them on day in, day out theres some encouraging news - THEY AINT THAT BAD!!
Certainly a list with Skrag + 2-3 butchers would be painfull, but in some ways overated - a single miscast could see all your butchers drop over dead, and fast, and at 400pts Skrag is pricey. Fair enough we could have at 2250

Skragg + 3 Butchers (with say 130pts of items)
6 units of Bulls (3 strong, bellower)
6 units of gnoblars (20 strong)
6 Gorgers

I love the insights, I recently thought that 4 characters is too many for Ogres, fair enough Deamons can take 4 heralds with avg cost of 190pts or so, but they have cheap troops to back it up. Unless we take a billion gnoblars it doesnt work.
I think a tyrant to add beef, a hunter to meance flanks & warmachines (with help from trappers), and a lone butcher with either bangstick/scroll or an outright scroll caddy.
From looking at how they operate I think gnoblars are risky - great for just holding table quarters and relasing fanatics (and then sucide mission by moving on top of them)
OK are going to give people a world of hurt - my biggest issues will be ld tests and flyers - sadly I cant think of an effective way to kill flyers (like harpies) unless I take more leadbelchers - so maybe 2 units of 2 might be mandatory.
From the moment I picked up an Ogre book over a year ago I knew there and then Yehtees will be the key flankers - 7" and ignore pretty much all terian? yes thank you!
This means no scrap launchers but maybe thats not a bad thing, I heard of one fellow who used FORTY PINS to hold it togehter!!!
Actually Id rather fave VC than DoC anytime of the week, even DoC I can see some rays of hope - its the Dark Elves who bother me the most!
Anyone had much truck against them?

Phelix
11-11-2009, 08:22
I started an ogre army when they came out (Ogre Pirates YARRRRRRR, even used the pirate maneater as my tyrant) and battles were tough and bloody but fun, when 7th came around I tried playing them, and I couldnt kill anything... at all... it was just a joke, Id do damage yes, but then I would almost auto-break against anything that had decent blocks of infantry, I heard they are getting a new book in the next year or so, so I guess Im looking forward to that, though I hope its a little later in the year since my new skaven just came out and I have lots of models to add to my existing force.

As of now I cant make them competitive, but I wouldnt give up hope on them as they are an awesome army.

Jind_Singh
11-11-2009, 19:26
What do people think about Skragg and 3 butcher list? You could take those guys, 6 units of bulls, 6 units of gnoblars, 6 gorgers - that would surely give people pause to think, WTF?!
And I could maybe change the actual troops around to fit in some rare choices/iron guts, etc. Surely thats a tough list - a lvl 4, 3 lvl 3s and all my magic users can fight. 6 gorgers are nasty surely, the you got the actual army to deal with.

Fiercediety
11-11-2009, 20:01
Since one of the biggest strengths of the most powerful armies seems to be magic a Skrag list should be good with all the magic defense. Plus gorgers are awesome.

N810
11-11-2009, 20:03
What do people think about Skragg and 3 butcher list? You could take those guys, 6 units of bulls, 6 units of gnoblars, 6 gorgers - that would surely give people pause to think, WTF?!
And I could maybe change the actual troops around to fit in some rare choices/iron guts, etc. Surely thats a tough list - a lvl 4, 3 lvl 3s and all my magic users can fight. 6 gorgers are nasty surely, the you got the actual army to deal with.

Sounds like a prety brutal list to me,
mostly because all gut magic is 3+ to cast,
so you almost never miscast

Nicha11
11-11-2009, 20:17
I've just been looking at the ogre army book.

Is a Tyrant, with siegbreaker, longstrider and "Bullgut" viable?

He's M7 and S8 in combat, plus he breaks ranks first turn.
Is he good enough to run around the battle easily breaking mid to small sized units on the charge?

Jind_Singh
12-11-2009, 05:40
I'd guess it might work but you need to be carefull - you need to catch a flank and then hope the enemy takes it.
You'll be facing static res of +2 (std and outnumber) and plus they have a musician so thats another 1 to kill.
Should be fine, but the only problem is you might win combat but only by 1-2 so theres a chance the enemy doesnt break - then your lord is vunerable!
But its something I considered when i 1st read the book - suprise a unit by making them think a lone ogre cant do anything!!!

Keller
12-11-2009, 12:13
I've just been looking at the ogre army book.

Is a Tyrant, with siegbreaker, longstrider and "Bullgut" viable?

He's M7 and S8 in combat, plus he breaks ranks first turn.
Is he good enough to run around the battle easily breaking mid to small sized units on the charge?

S 8 really isn't much more helpful than S7, so its probably not worth the points to invest in the Siege Breaker. A normal GW would suffice, or one of the other choices.

Personally, I prefer Giant Breaker, Bull Gut, and either Sword of Battle (If I'm worried about magic attacks) or a BoH/AHW/IF for 6 S6 attacks, which is more than most R&F units can bear. Toss in a pair of sword gnoblars for good measure (about the only time I use them) and you can get quite a bit of CR.

Urgat
12-11-2009, 16:16
My MSU Ogre army has been pretty successful against friends, but I've never tested it in a tourny setting.

Mine was, at the begining, the first few games, I would slaugther everything. But my friends got the hang og them very, and I mean VERY fast, and now, awesome luck aside, I just can't win with them anymore. I blame two factors for that though: I might play a bit too conservative (being used to gobs), and my army selection is probably not good.
Of course, it could also be that I suck, but let's not go there :p

edit: to be honest, one thing I find difficult to handle is the large size of even 3wide ogre units. I accept that with 30 gobs, I accept that with my trolls which can handle about anything, but ogres are, all in all, quite weak after all, so it bothers me. Someday I plan on trying out something silly, making ranks of 2 (two in front, one in the back). Sure I lose a lot of punch, but I should get tremendous maneuvrability increase through that.

skank
12-11-2009, 16:25
What is the Paradigm Deathstar?

The old paradigm was MSU ironguts, tyrant and 3 butchers so over at Ogrestronghold they tried out new lists to find a solution for 7th ed.

the deathstar is basically MSU but without butchers (RIP gutmagic can be easily dispelled when needed) and all the characters massed together in a single unit to smash key enemy units with the rest of the army there to get the deathstar to it's target.

I've been using it for a while with some success, it's:

Tyrant
Brusier(BSB)
Brusier
Brusier

2 units bulls (3 with bellower)
2 gnoblar fighters (21 fighters)
4 Irongut (3 ogres)
9 trappers

maneater
gorger

Characters can jump from unit to unit (into maneater for stubborn/ITP) as they get blocked or threatened.

I find VC are easy with ogres, have about 70% win rate, DOC are another story... 1 win so far:rolleyes:,

captian Maklai
12-11-2009, 16:36
Well technically i don't think you can cut mustard:D Anyway, i don't konw much about ogres but this has perked my curiosity, what do they play like?:chrome:

mkhurly
12-11-2009, 17:09
@ Singh

I play Ogre Kingdoms and I have had relatively good success with them. The army that put an absolute beat down on me was an all night goblin army. Ouch.

I play the following:
Tyrant
Bruiser
2 Butchers (dispell caddies)
hunter if points allow, 2 kittys. I have had alot of success with this guy, greyback pelt. The Hunter is a real work horse. The kittys can take care of war machine crews and the hunter can kill heavy cav with his harpoon gun. Remember, that the hunter can tear apart large targets with his harpoon rule by doing further damage. Its a long shot but it is still a possibility.

3 Bull units, varying size from 3 to 4, b/c the butchers go in them.

1 iron gut unit full command, war banner, 3 ironguts. This unit gets the Tyrant, Butcher.
The Butcher usally carries a banner that allows units to re-roll panic or deflects spells on a 2+. The Tryant is tricked out differently every game I play, but I usally give him the any double ones, twos or threes against his unit are a miscast.

1 iron gut unit of three, musician only. reserve unit unit used for slamming the side of exposed flanks.

3 twenty gnoblars units. They help take table quarters and if position to allow the tryant's unit to deflect spells onto them or to support flank attacks.

slave giant just because I like it.

Maneaters, if you don't have a unit of maneaters you are committing a mortal sin. They are also a work horse unit.

2 3-4 man unit of leadbelchers. Flank protectors. They can be hit or miss, but make the opponent cautious of trying to get to you, b/c remember, they can smash the crap out of fast cavalry on a charge, if you think you have the range.

If opponents allow it, I use my forgeworld rhinox riders.

I would agree that in smaller games they definitely have an edge.

Any questions, pleas PM me.

mkhurly
12-11-2009, 17:12
I will use gorgers if points are there.

mkhurly
12-11-2009, 17:18
@ the DarkDude

I agree with DarkDude's analysis. We play Ogres in a similar fashion.

Jind_Singh
12-11-2009, 22:40
Hey Guys & Girls,
Question on Maneaters

Love, and I mean LOVE the models - so much so I now have all 4 'normal' ones, and will be ordering the ninja/female maneater soon.

Love their backstory, makes me smile

Love their stats/what they can do

But at 80pts base, and then heavy armour/weapon upgrade they become 90pts a go.

1) How the hell do we use these?
2) Whats a good unit size to take for them?
3) Do you find they die to early on, so need carefull screening?

I'm hoping someone has the answer as I REALLY want to use these formidable Ogres in my army!!

thanks in advance

AlmightyNocturnus
12-11-2009, 23:05
Jind Singh,

Before I talk about Maneaters, I just want to warn you about your previous list idea (2250 pts.) - I`m pretty sure you can`t take six Gorgers at that level.

I think Maneaters are one of the worst, over-priced units in the game (just three of `em is going cost you over 250). They always end up being easy victory points for the opponent. But, no doubt, others will come on and sing the praises of Maneaters after this post. I would only ever use them at 3000 points or higher (two or three maneaters plus BSB can stick around a bit and fight).
As others have stated, the Slave Giant is also pretty pathetic. At best it can be used as a missile magnet for a turn or so allowing you to get your Ogres closer to their lines un-shot-up.
For my rares, I always go double Gorger. They may come late, but evn then they can trun the tide of battle. And when they come in early, they ALWAYS make up their points and then some. My Gorgers have eaten so many cannon, bolt thrower, and stone thrower crews...literally saving the rest of my army. They are T5 with 4 wounds and they are Unbreakable! So, unless your opponent literally turns around a sizeable unit to go after them, Gorgers will stride around behind your opponents army eating what they want with impunity. Even characters have to think twice (Killing Blow!)

Almighty Nocturnus

TheMav80
13-11-2009, 00:34
MSU is the way to go. I've had great success with my Ogres, even against other competitive lists...except for VC. I have not played DE or Daemons with them, though I don't think your average DE list would be too bad.

Best bet at 2K is to have a Tyrant and 3 Butchers. If you don't want to take three, I'd say take none. I've actually had some success with no butchers at all.

I usually take Bulls in groups of 3 with a Bellower and no other upgrades. They are there to redirect and screen.

A unit or two of Gnoblars is also good for the same purpose. They move slower and can't fight worth a damn, but they won't cause panic in your lines...and never underestimate their sharp stuff throwing attacks! I tend to use them to his things in the flank, especially units that don't have deep ranks themselves. So something with two ranks, so that only two models can attack the gnoblars back, and won't easily over come the +5 to combat rez you are sure to have just by killing the Gnoblars.

Ironguts are the units to use to smash things. They are also the only unit I will give a banner to. I stick my Tyrant in with one of these, sometimes with a Warbanner, but I find the Rune Maw can be great too. Redirect with other units then charge with these guys, hopefully from more than 6 inches away.

Some people swear by Leadbelchers...mine end up killing themselves more often than anything else. If you take them, take groups of 2. Use them to protect your flanks.

Yhetees (I think the models suck) are overpriced...but not all bad. They can move over impassable terrain and through difficult terrain and are M7. They are Strength 5 magical attacks and attacks back are -1 to hit. In 2K and above you could take a unit of 3 of these guys. They aren't optimal, but meh.

I've only used the Scraplauncher twice. Both times I got really lucky and KBed quite a few Chaos Knights. Not very reliable though.

Gorgers are awesome. I've had one Gorger roll up gunlines. They can't charge the turn they arrive, but are usually tough enough to survive the first round of shooting the will take. Even if he does die rather quickly, that will be fire he took away from your main line for pretty cheap.

Maneaters, some people don't like them, but I love them. If you are not going to take a two Gorgers a unit of two Maneaters can hold down a flank real well. I take one with a Cathayan Longsword and one with Handguns. Some people like making a Maneater Deathstar, but that's too much for me.

Tyrants are awesome. Seriously, still one of the best combat characters in the game. My standard loadout is Mawseeker, Tenderizer, Wyrdstone Necklace. If you know you will be fighting Dwarfs or Lizards the Siegebreaker isn't a terrible idea.

With Butchers (when I take them) one will get the halfling cookbook, one will get the bangstick/skull mantle, and one will have scrolls.

I love the idea of the Hunter, but he just doesn't have much of a place in an Ogre army. I use him every now and then for fun when I'm not taking Butchers. He and his cats can come in handy, but he isn't the best option. If I take him it is with two cats and the greyback pelt.

Every now and then I also like bring out Skrag. If you don't have a thing against special characters. He is the only way to get a level 4 wizard below 3K, plus he lets you take A LOT more Gorgers. Once he get's going he can be a beast to stop. If I use him I take him, two butchers, and a Bruiser.

TheMav80
13-11-2009, 00:43
I've tried this list with no Butchers out before and done well against WoC, LM, High Elves, and Dwarfs.

I think some of my points are off, but it is for 2K and generally something like this.

Tyrant with Tenderizer, Greedy Fist, Wyrdstone, Mawseeker, HA, Luck Gnoblar, Handguns

Bruiser with HA, Greatskull, Mawseeker, Cathayan Longsword, Handguns

Bruiser with HA 2 Thiefstones, Fistfull of Laurels, Ironfist, Luck Gnoblar, 2 Sword Gnoblars

4 Bulls with extra handweapons
6 Bulls with Ironfists, LA, Standard and Lookout Gnoblar
5 Ironguts with Standard, Rune Maw, Lookout Gnoblar
4 Ironguts
20 Gnoblars
8 Trappers
2 Maneaters with HA, Cathayan Longsword, Handguns
Gorger

CrownAxe
13-11-2009, 01:14
Jind Singh,

Before I talk about Maneaters, I just want to warn you about your previous list idea (2250 pts.) - I`m pretty sure you can`t take six Gorgers at that level.

You can with Skragg (Gorgers are special choice and 2 per slot)

Jind_Singh
13-11-2009, 06:13
I've tried this list with no Butchers out before and done well against WoC, LM, High Elves, and Dwarfs.
I think some of my points are off, but it is for 2K and generally something like this.
Tyrant with Tenderizer, Greedy Fist, Wyrdstone, Mawseeker, HA, Luck Gnoblar, Handguns
Bruiser with HA, Greatskull, Mawseeker, Cathayan Longsword, Handguns
Bruiser with HA 2 Thiefstones, Fistfull of Laurels, Ironfist, Luck Gnoblar, 2 Sword Gnoblars
4 Bulls with extra handweapons
6 Bulls with Ironfists, LA, Standard and Lookout Gnoblar
5 Ironguts with Standard, Rune Maw, Lookout Gnoblar
4 Ironguts
20 Gnoblars
8 Trappers
2 Maneaters with HA, Cathayan Longsword, Handguns
Gorger

I can see how it did well v's the armies you mentioned but I feel it lacks the all-rounded version I'm searching for - as my local club runs mainly DoC, WoC, Greenskins, Empire, OK time to time, DE (Eugh!), Skaven, Lizardmen, Vampire Counts, and now wood elves player coming in. I wonder how your 6 bulls fully loaded worked out for you? 5+ save from shooting (providing it wasnt str 4!) but still a chunky unit that has US 18, Plus 1 for standard - thats quite hefty!

hill9969
13-11-2009, 06:39
I play Ogres and I think they are a good army. It does take some practice and skill to use them well.

I don't like MSU armies for Ogres. My play style is about fear and outnumber. I take 6 ogres in my units when I can and place them 3X2. Outnumber by a fear causing unit is an ogre players friend. Ogres have trouble against VC and DoC because you can't break them in this manner. Also with units this size panic tests from loss of models is rare.

I like to take 3 characters for a 2000/2250 point game. Four is just too costly I have found out. When you take four you hurt your army by not having enough diversity or wounds on the table. I always take a tyrant. The extra points in magical items is a huge increase for a tyrants power with the items for OK. One combo that I like is a Tyrant/Bruiser in the same unit both with the Mawseeker big name and the Bruiser with the jade lion and BSB.

On maneaters, they have the best mundane weapon in the game - BoH. Forget the great weapon, longsword or ironfits you should never take them. BoH is far more effective and useful. The BoH counts as a pistol for the maneaters with a 24 range and the first time per game its fired it gains a d6 to the range. This means that opening round per maneater you can get two shots off with str4, AP, on a roll of 4 per shot and hit almost any unit in LOS without moving. Their is no penalty for range or moving to hit and you can always stand and shoot with them. Win Win. Now for the really good part about them. In close combat they count as having two hand weapons. This gives the maneaters an extra attack. Each maneater in CC gets 5 str5 attacks at WS4. You add these bonuses on top of a stubborn unit and you get the best ogre unit. Period.

I hope this help ya out and good luck figuring out Ogres.

Jind_Singh
13-11-2009, 08:58
holy smokes Batman- I didnt realize the Brace of pistols had no mods for moving! I'd give all of the BoH - 6 shots in 1st round when no one expects it hitting on 4's, wounding most things on 3's - and -2 to armour save! Genius!
And like you said - counts as additional hand weapon, and stand & shoot - mmmm, suddenly the maneaters become so much more viable!

interesting to see your bulls 2*3 = so many people dont even think its worth the extra rank to get +1 str for a bull charge, but then again you have u/s 18 - if you can kill even 2-3 models on avg you get outnumber. But then you'll need a std in that unit too to get an additional plus 1....could work if you pull of a charge to get 3 bull charges.

Do you bother giving the bulls any upgrades out of me being curious? I had figrue additional hand weapon to be best bet as the ironfist/light armour is very pricey

Jind_Singh
13-11-2009, 16:03
dammit! Been building the hunter, added a dwarf head to the belt (really nice one that has forked beard, and it fits excellently into the side of his gut plate), used a bone saw to cut his crossbow to make him actually grasp it in his meaty hand, but got problem....

WHICH GUTPLATE!!!!

I like the skull but it's so overdone so I was considering the lion head - but I keep going back and forth!

I was also thinking of using the lion head gutplate as an actual head for my butcher as it fits really well but then I tought - HOLD ON! He's an Ogre, not a Thundercat!!!

But then again shamans wear cooky headgear so why not???

So torn!
HELP!

Keller
13-11-2009, 17:09
I went with the lion head for my Hunter's plate. As you said, the skull-head is so overdone, and I think the lion-head looks pretty good on there when he's with his cats.

Of course, you could look for something completely different, digging through the old bitz box for some spare pieces that may fit. Or, there is always Greenstuff to sculpt your own. A hyra-head or some such would be very fitting on there. Or perhaps some cannon/mortar scrap-hull or a cannon-ball.

hill9969
13-11-2009, 17:11
As for upgrading the bulls that depends on what army I am fighting and total points. I upgrade them in larger point games or in armies where they rely on numbers like O&G. In 2000 point games I usually just get a basic unit to meet core requirements. It just depends on whats happening for the game. I know this doesn't help much but a big part of being effective with Ogres is knowing the other armies and understanding what works against them.

Gorbad Ironclaw
13-11-2009, 17:52
Hey Guys & Girls,
But at 80pts base, and then heavy armour/weapon upgrade they become 90pts a go.

1) How the hell do we use these?
2) Whats a good unit size to take for them?
3) Do you find they die to early on, so need carefull screening?

I'm hoping someone has the answer as I REALLY want to use these formidable Ogres in my army!!

thanks in advance


IMO Maneaters are actually better in other armies than they are in an OK army. They are better ogres, but you got lots of ogres already. That being said, I've seen them used to pretty good effect using handguns. It also adds something the Ogre army is in short supply of (ranged attacks).


For ogres as a whole what I found when I played them was that Gnoblars while interesting was really hard to get to work with the ogres. Being much slower and suffering from bicker means that while they seems like the meatshield that lets you ogres get there that rarely works. IMO they are better as a second line unit to help out in combats your ogres are stuck in. It should also hopefully minimise the number of gnoblars that are actually in combat, as they die so easy.

Ogres are big and tough and hard to kill. Except they aren't. T4 and very little armour isn't actually that tough. Yes, they got three wounds, but you also typically have small units so panic tests are never far away. And you have to be careful because your units can't stand up to much incoming firepower. Also be careful for fighting with damaged units. If the unit have suffered two wounds already just one more wound kills an ogre and that's 3+ attacks your not getting.

Also Ironguts are way better than Bulls. Bulls are your cheap throwaway unit. If you want a unit that can actually fight go for the Ironguts.

In terms of fighting prowess the Bruiser might actually beat the Tyrant point for point, but I find you really need that additional leadership. Ogres are actually quite a fragile army. The Tyrant also offers you your best bet in killing big nasties if you give him the Tenderiser. The Siege Breaker should IMO go on a Butcher. Speaking of Butchers, they are IMO easily the best ogre hero choice overall. Buff your ogres and they actually become good.

Oh, and don't underestimate the Scraplauncher. It was consistently my MVP when I used my ogres.

Jind_Singh
13-11-2009, 22:47
IMO Maneaters are actually better in other armies than they are in an OK army. They are better ogres, but you got lots of ogres already. That being said, I've seen them used to pretty good effect using handguns. It also adds something the Ogre army is in short supply of (ranged attacks).


For ogres as a whole what I found when I played them was that Gnoblars while interesting was really hard to get to work with the ogres. Being much slower and suffering from bicker means that while they seems like the meatshield that lets you ogres get there that rarely works. IMO they are better as a second line unit to help out in combats your ogres are stuck in. It should also hopefully minimise the number of gnoblars that are actually in combat, as they die so easy.

Ogres are big and tough and hard to kill. Except they aren't. T4 and very little armour isn't actually that tough. Yes, they got three wounds, but you also typically have small units so panic tests are never far away. And you have to be careful because your units can't stand up to much incoming firepower. Also be careful for fighting with damaged units. If the unit have suffered two wounds already just one more wound kills an ogre and that's 3+ attacks your not getting.

Also Ironguts are way better than Bulls. Bulls are your cheap throwaway unit. If you want a unit that can actually fight go for the Ironguts.

In terms of fighting prowess the Bruiser might actually beat the Tyrant point for point, but I find you really need that additional leadership. Ogres are actually quite a fragile army. The Tyrant also offers you your best bet in killing big nasties if you give him the Tenderiser. The Siege Breaker should IMO go on a Butcher. Speaking of Butchers, they are IMO easily the best ogre hero choice overall. Buff your ogres and they actually become good.

Oh, and don't underestimate the Scraplauncher. It was consistently my MVP when I used my ogres.

Sound advice, I will pay attention! by the way how hard was the scrap launcher to put together - i hear its a royal pain in the bum!

I like the way you broke down the roles for the characters, I'll have to re-read your post after so,me food!

Jind_Singh
14-11-2009, 08:16
So been listening to the words of wisdom - wondering how you felt about this for my 1st 1000pts....

Brusier, heavy armour, great weapon, 2 sword Gnoblars, Luck Gnoblar - 157pts

3 Bulls, Bellower - 115pts
3 Bulls, Bellower - 115pts
3 Bulls, Bellower - 115pts
3 Bulls, Bellower - 115pts
20 Gnoblar Fighters - 40pts
8 Gnoblar Trappers - 48pts

2 Lead Belchers - 110pts
2 Lead Belchers - 110pts

Gorger - 75pts

1000 points on the dot, not a point over or under......

Basic plan - Bloody Bruiser is the only hero we can take as Hunter/Butcher cant lead the army - at 1000pts I dont think I can afford to take 2 heros as they are a big points sink.
Plan is to paint up the 1st 1000pts, build my core of the main army, then the next 1250 add fancier units like Iron Guts, more characters, Yhetees, etc.

The 2nd part of the plan is that the 1st 1000pts be somewhat of a playable list too - I want to enjoy my army as it grows, so I thought this 1st 1000 would be somewhat ok to face most armies at a 1000pts. The Great Maw protect me though if I come across any magic heavy forces at this level, they will have a field day! My only defence is that I have 9 units to play with - thats a fearsome number compared to most armies at a 1000pts!

Durloth
14-11-2009, 10:33
I am an active turnament player and have taken my ogres to loads of tourneys since the book was released. I can`t deny that it`s often a frustrating venture, but it`s definately not without it`s rewards:

Cons: Against some armyes I feel that I just lack the tools for the job. The aforementioned DoC and Vampires can be a real pain, but I find that Wood Elves are the worst match up, as their shooting are crippling and both dryads and tree-kin are very hard for Ogres to beat in CC.

Pros: I have several armies, but I think the Ogres (not 6th. ed. Dark Elfs as some would claim) are the most strategically demanding. Thus it is very rewarding to pull off a win and you`ll know that you deserved it. Games also tend to be very mobile and fun, with loads of manouvering and desicive charges. Last, but not least, is that almost everyone I`ve met loves playing against Ogres, so the mood at the table is usually really good.

I went to a tourney last week end. Here in Norway most tourneys are heavily comped and we never use special characters. I ended up on 17th of 47 players, which I`m really pleased by, as I met both VC and DoC.

I always play MSU, with Longstrider characters. Of critical are to have so many units that not even gun-lines can completely cripple the armys CC potential. My main tricks are to switch units for my characters more or less every turn, as the randomizing of shooting helps keep them safe, while their higher thoughness will negate some of the shots against the unit as a whole. Another is to "catapult" the long striding character out of it`s parent unit for a second turn charge against units with important enemy characters, monsters or war-machines. Just remember that 90% of the players out there will only accept challenges against a Tyrant if that can`t move the character into another rank or have some sneaky trick like the Van Horstmans Speculum or Obsidian Armour, so if overkill isn`t critical, it`s often wise to refrain from challenges and rather allocate a couple of attacks to the character and the rest to the unit he`s with.

Gnoblars are IMO vital as they make their points back even by just contesting a table quarter. Another point is that people tend to underestimate them and charge them with less than the needed power and actually get beaten. Also remember that they can shoot sharp stuff with all their ranks against large targets and that even though they usually need 6 to wound, that have the numbers to pull it off. I`ve stopped counting the number of gigants my Gnoblars have killed with sharp stuff and from time to time they do cool feats, like killing characters mounted on on dragons and such...

My lists usually looks something like this:

Tyrant- Longstrider, Tenderiser, Wyrdstone necklace, Luck Gnoblar (for the odd cannonball or stone thrower)
Butcher- Scroll, Bangstick
Butcher- Hellheart or scroll and Skull Mantle or just two scrolls.
Bruiser- longstrider and GW or Sword of Battle or Sword of Striking against ethereals.

4x3 Bulls- Bellower, Light Armour and Ironfist
4x20 Gnoblar Fighters- Groinbiters if I have the points, as they are so cool...
1x3 Ironguts- Bellower (I think more of these would be better, but I`ve never gotten `round painting any more)

1x2 Lead belchers- musician
Scrap Launcher -I know many don`t use it, due to it`s horrible misfire table, but I`ve found that it`s usually quite good especially used as a chariot. One of it`s merits is that people don`t see it as much of a threat tend to ignore it untill it`s charging in, doing impact hits and breaking ranks.

Slave Gigant- Not the most reliable unit, granted, but it`s always entertaining in CC (my last game against VC it alone killed two units of Ghouls and a vampire hero) and terror is always a treat.
Rhinox Chavalry- Bull Rhinox, Warbanner, HA and Iron Fist. With high T, save and US, coupled with +2 CR from the banners, this guy can usually hold a flank by him self or lend real credibility to your centre. Don`t expect him to see combat against gun lines, but it`s a worthy sacrifice, as it takes a lot of shooting to take him down.

One last note on Bull Rhinoxen and gigants is that their long bases makes them ideal targets for cannons, so try to point their flanks to such war-machines.

Edit: Forgot to mention that Ogres are one of the few armies that gets better in smaller games. I think 4th place is the lowest I`ve ended in 500-points tournies, as few armies (exept the dreaded Wood Elves) can handle a Bruiser (GW, HA, Long Strider), 2x3 Bulls (LA, Iron Fist, Bellower) and 2X20 Gnoblar Fighters in such low point games.

Von Wibble
14-11-2009, 12:59
They're good against DE. High toughness, multi-wound troops soak up a lot of shooting and magic before showing any signs of it, especially against the traditional 3 Butcher set. Dual Gorgers are aweful against most anything, but are a nightmare for DE missile troops, neutralizing them pretty quickly.

MSU, first wave Bulls can redirect anything the DE can throw at them, again, especially with 3 Butchers spaming gut magic against Harpies and Dark Riders. Standard single caddy + Ring has little effect on a good Ogre magic phase, which is potent against support troops. they have bull charge against ASF, and in subsequent rounds the enemy needs to due a lot of wounds to reduce attacks back.

Yetties (sp?), while ignoring terrain are excellent at exploiting Hatred. A good flank charge on knights will pull them away from the fight. In fact, even threatening knights with Yetties will force the DE player to regroup. Advantage: Ogres.

Take Farstryder on your Tyrant and once the fight get's close, which it will quickly, -POW!- he comes flying out to cleanup the first thing he gets his hands on, easily avoiding characters.

Ogres are very poweful against all forms of Elves, whether High, Dark or Wood. And I see them regularly massacre WoC armies for most of the same reasons.

Really?!! I would say wood elves everywhere would laugh in the face of ogres. Wood elves don't like huge amounts of static Cr and armour. Guess what ogres don't have...

10 man glade guard do huge damage to msu bulls in just 1 round of shooting. Hail of doom arrow will neutralise 1 of your units before you even get into the fight. Dryad units and wardancers deal a huge punch to enemy units with their massed S4 attacks. Treekin that stay away from the Tyrant are just better than the ogre units they face. And manouvreing an OK army based on msu around so many trees is difficult at best.

I have never used wood elves against ogres in a game and felt like the result will be anything but easy victory. It has to be regarded as one of the most uneven matchups in the game.

Dark elves are in a similar position, with more magic replacing hail of doom arrow. Sure they can be hatred baited - but that yhetee unit you just used actually costs more than those knights. And not everyone takes caddy + ring - I take 2 level 2s, one with dagger. And that will easily punch through ogres meagre defense. Besides, the ring is not a good choice against OK anyway since they buff their own units with cheap spells.

As to high elves - try facing an army with 4 small units of swordmasters/white lions , 2 units of dragon princes, plus lots of magic, eagles to block your LOS and of course a dragon (yes, you can afford that in a 2500pts game) and claim its advantage ogres. +2 to dispel doesn't hurt their cause either.

Ogres are not good against elves.

Durloth
14-11-2009, 13:48
I`ve found Gorgers more or less useless against elves, because of the silly have-to-end-turn-closer-to an-enemy rule. Any elven army worth it`s salt will have cheap(ish) redirectors with which a good general can bait the Gorger quite harmelssly around the board for a couple of turns...

Gorbad Ironclaw
14-11-2009, 15:42
by the way how hard was the scrap launcher to put together - i hear its a royal pain in the bum!

I wouldn't know. I scratchbuild both of mine...:p But yes, another friend who build some cursed them loudly.

Just one thing to watch out for with them. They are US 5. So they can take away ranks but they will also cause panic tests when destroyed.

Jind_Singh
14-11-2009, 16:51
I wouldn't know. I scratchbuild both of mine...:p But yes, another friend who build some cursed them loudly.

Just one thing to watch out for with them. They are US 5. So they can take away ranks but they will also cause panic tests when destroyed.

Thats a shames - just double checked and your right, they are not largely insignificant! :(

Jind_Singh
14-11-2009, 16:52
I am an active turnament player and have taken my ogres to loads of tourneys since the book was released. I can`t deny that it`s often a frustrating venture, but it`s definately not without it`s rewards:

Thanks for the very detailed post - I know it must have taken time, appreciate it!

Durloth
14-11-2009, 18:00
@Jind: It was my pleasure! Not only do I love to wax lyrical about my beloved Ogres, but I work 12 hour shifts at an alarm-central, where nothing really happens unless there is an actual alarm, which usually happens only a couple of times per day.Because it is one of the few web-pages that aren`t blocked, Warseer is pretty much my only escape from either reading for my exams and staring at surveilance cameras. Surfblocks FTW!

Horus38
14-11-2009, 23:34
I wonder how many fart jokes popped up over the course of this thread :D

I've always viewed them as fun/unique, but not very competitive.

Jind_Singh
15-11-2009, 11:48
we've been quite civilized actually old fruity!
but i say nay to the naysayers! there must be a way, and i'll find that way, to make people shake and tremble in the wake of our fearsome bull charges!
we need fast cav options - Gnoblars mounted on mountain goats, m7!

Von Wibble
15-11-2009, 11:55
I wouldn't know. I scratchbuild both of mine...:p But yes, another friend who build some cursed them loudly.

Just one thing to watch out for with them. They are US 5. So they can take away ranks but they will also cause panic tests when destroyed.

First time I played against ogres the tyrant and his unit ran off the table after failing a panic check from a fleeing scraplauncher...

Gorbad Ironclaw
15-11-2009, 16:24
I never really found it to be to much of a problem, but it is something to watch out for. Since it can actually hang back and shoot you can afford to keep it more than 5" away on critical turns. However it should also not be forgotten that it's quite a good cc machine as well. A Scraplauncher and a small unit of ogres can actually beat quite a lot of units if they get the charge.

Jind_Singh
16-11-2009, 17:55
Holy crap! Just found the downloadable PDF for Rhinox Rider Rules, those guys are awesome!
Has anyone here tried them out, and do they play as good as the rules state?
I'm tempted to mailorder some Rhinox models and try them out!

N810
16-11-2009, 18:02
Yea I have seen them in a fight... They are just brutal... :eek:

Keller
16-11-2009, 18:27
Holy crap! Just found the downloadable PDF for Rhinox Rider Rules, those guys are awesome!
Has anyone here tried them out, and do they play as good as the rules state?
I'm tempted to mailorder some Rhinox models and try them out!

Make sure you have the right rules for them, as there were 2 PDFs for them; one was from Forge World, which was way OTT. The Other was published in WD, later made official, which was still good, but not quite as rediculous. The legal rules are those from WD, which introduced the Ironskin Tribe as a playable list as well.

For some reason, the FW rules are still floating around, always confusing people who think they are the rule set to use.

Jind_Singh
17-11-2009, 06:04
So check this out - a way to make a mean and lean (for an Ogre) list that will kick some butt perhaps!!!

Skragg - 400pts
Butcher - Bangstick, Scroll - 180pts
Butcher - Skull Mantle, Scroll - 175pts

3 Bulls, Bellower - 115pts
3 Bulls, Bellower - 115pts
3 Iron Guts, Bellower - 154pts
3 Iron Guts, Bellower - 154pts
21 Gnoblars - 42pts
12 Trappers - 72pts

2 Gorgers - 150pts
2 Gorgers - 150pts
3 Yhetees - 195pts

3 Rhinox Riders, Ironfists, Heavy Armour

EXACTLY 2250 pts ON the Ogre dot!

10 Power die, 1 bound spell. 6 Dispell die and 2 scrolls

The cunning plan - well none really, pray that Skrag makes it into combat to bring on his pet Gorgers to wreak havoc. Enemy will hopefully be dismayed that he has to deal with Skrag, the Gorgers, Rhinox, AND the rest of my army.

With my Butchers out in force I might be able to fire off some spells here and there, trappers can annoy people with their sharp stuff and scouting abilities.

Yhetees will run amok on the flanks with their 7" move and ignoring all terrian as they rampage towards the enemy.

And push comes to shove Skragg will be able to knock a few heads together!!!!

Yeay Ogres!!!

Zazoo
17-11-2009, 09:32
@OP

A little background.
Ive been playing Ogres pretty much since they came out and the only army I play against where I know i stand little to no chance of winning against is DoC.

Any other army it might be a bit of an uphill battle but I stand a decent chance.
In our Local league my final winning percentage with them was 87%.

What everyone seems to forget is ogre characters are cheap for what they do and on average can swat almost any other character they come accross.
With this in mind ALL my ogre characters are geared for combat.
I have a Tyrant with a tenderisor, a BSB with weirdstone necklace and greedy fist, 2 butchers, 1 with the siege breaker and 1 with the sword of might.

Ive find that the BSB is the game winner for me not only does he keep Ogres in combat that little bit longer but with the greedy fist he is a real danger to any character that has magic levels or relies on a magic weapon.
There is nothing more satisfying than hitting a Vampire Lord 4 times and oops VC lord is no longer a wizard Or making your 5+ ward save against carl franz and seeing his hammer break.

The rest of my army is:
1 X 3 Bulls extra weapons
2 X 3 Iron Guts (One with Standard and Warbanner)
2 X 3 Yhettee (These are brilliant at taking out warmachines and other shooting units, but they take a LOT of getting used to. You have to use thier ignore terrain ability to the fullest to make them work)
2 X 3 Units of Maneaters with brace of handguns (Nothing like a unit that has 5 str 5 attacks each, ITP and Stubborn, can ALWAYS stand and shoot and have 2 24 inch pistol *s4 AP* shots per turn)

I used to use leadbelchers but I have the worst luck ever with them so i dropped them in favour of additional maneaters.

The thing that takes the most getting used to is the fleeing from charges and redirecting with units to get a decent charge in.


Anyway Good luck and even if you dont win much with them you will enjoy playing them.
And always remind your opponent that you are not here to fight, you are here for food (Or in the case of undead toothpicks).

Jind_Singh
17-11-2009, 15:55
Interesting concept to your army as it has a very small unit count - 5 units out in the open (bulls, 2 ironguts, 2 maneaters) and 2 hidden scouting units with yethees)
And running a list similar to yours gives me a legitmate exuse to mail order the ninja & female maneater as they are the only 2 from 6 I am missing!
I am suprised you did well v's the Elven factions - the Woodelves have shooting, and they are hard to engage in combat, the High Elves have more shooting AND combat with ASF great weapons, and the Dark Elves - well they have everything!

Zazoo
18-11-2009, 04:50
Interesting concept to your army as it has a very small unit count - 5 units out in the open (bulls, 2 ironguts, 2 maneaters) and 2 hidden scouting units with yethees)
And running a list similar to yours gives me a legitmate exuse to mail order the ninja & female maneater as they are the only 2 from 6 I am missing!
I am suprised you did well v's the Elven factions - the Woodelves have shooting, and they are hard to engage in combat, the High Elves have more shooting AND combat with ASF great weapons, and the Dark Elves - well they have everything!

Its difficult to explain but I have very few problems against Elves, Dark Elves are the toughest challenge but to date I have not lost a single game against an elf player. (Had 1 draw against a DE player in a tournament)
I have to admit tho, that I have yet to face a star dragon.

I suppose its a combination of using flee options at the right time, using gut magic to its full potential, setting up good counter charges and picking the right targets for the maneaters to shoot at every turn.

Jind_Singh
20-11-2009, 17:43
Hey what do you Ogre fans propose in terms of skin tones? I am looking for an effect which is more greyish than skin as I'd imagine them to be too fat to have rosy red skin. I am painting the trousers blue so I think greyish tones would compliment it nicely.
But I dont know were to start!
What do you all suggest for effective skin tones?

puppetmaster24
20-11-2009, 17:45
simply put. no.

mdauben
20-11-2009, 18:30
Hey what do you Ogre fans propose in terms of skin tones?
I really don't have many of my Ogres painted up yet (Hey! Its only been 5-6 years since they came out, right? Give me time!), but on my couple of "test" figures, I used a Graveyard Earth base gradually blended with Kommando Khaki up to pure Kommando, with a little Skull White mixed into the very top highlights. I thought it looks pretty good. It looks like skin, but not really human.

TheMav80
20-11-2009, 23:26
Hey what do you Ogre fans propose in terms of skin tones? I am looking for an effect which is more greyish than skin as I'd imagine them to be too fat to have rosy red skin. I am painting the trousers blue so I think greyish tones would compliment it nicely.
But I dont know were to start!
What do you all suggest for effective skin tones?

I think I used Tau Sept Ochre as a base, then put Graveyard Earth over that. I think I did my Ironguts darker with Calthan Brown.

been a while.

Jind_Singh
21-11-2009, 06:35
simply put. no.


Excellent - any reasons why or thats it?

Zazoo
23-11-2009, 11:03
I use rotting flesh with a flesh wash over it and then back to rotting flesh and a light touch of white. (it comes out a light green colour)
It comes out nicely.

Jind_Singh
23-11-2009, 15:55
I''m going to experiment with the skin - I am testing a figure now were i started with a grey base. The aim is to highlight up and he'll have light (almost space wolf blue) freckles on his shoulders.
I like some of the above too so lots of test painting!

Keller
23-11-2009, 18:32
I painted my Ogres with Dark Flesh base, over-brushed with Tanned Flesh. I wanted them to be darker than the traditional gray base, since mine are themed to live in a volcano, and liked the human-like paint job it produced.

Gnoblars, which have not been fully painted, are done with a shadow and fortress gray base, helping them to blend in with the ash-filled environment represented on the bases.

Durloth
23-11-2009, 18:46
In my ogre army I`ve gone from a 50-50 mix of Chaos Black and Codex Grey blended up to about 75-25 Codex grey and Skull white. The ogres in my DoW-army you can see following the linky in my sig.

Wolfmother
23-11-2009, 19:39
i see ogre kingdoms as either scragg and all the gorgers in the world

or an acomplishmen to win with any other ogre army

an ogre army requires you to straegicly destroy you oponent and even then you dont always win!

Jind_Singh
23-11-2009, 20:04
In my ogre army I`ve gone from a 50-50 mix of Chaos Black and Codex Grey blended up to about 75-25 Codex grey and Skull white. The ogres in my DoW-army you can see following the linky in my sig.

You got some nice conversions going on in the DoW army - nice! :D

Wolf Mother - I am almost thinking the same, but I think if we drop Skragg then we bring in the Rhinox riders - those are pretty bad ass!!!!!