PDA

View Full Version : Space Marine Rhino variants



Berynius
17-05-2005, 11:17
I was just thinking about what kind of Rhino variant you could find in the service of the Adeptus Astartes. I have mad a list of those I know of. But I feel that there is still a lot of gaps that could be filled one variant I think is missing is a dedicated battlefield ambulance (face it even Space Marines, get wounded). So with out further ado, I give you the Apothecarium Medical Rhino

So the question is what kind of Rhino variant do you think is missing? Let me hear your thoughts.

DAMOCLES COMMAND RHINO
-Command variant

WHIRLWIND HYPERIOS
-Anti-air craft variant

WHIRLWIND
-Artilley

RAZORBACK
-Squad Suport

PREDATOR
-TANK Variant
-Annihilator sub variant (lascannons)
-Destructor sub variant (Autocannon)

VINDICATOR
-Siege/assault variant

(RHINO) ARMORED SUPPLY CARRIER
-Supply
ARMORED SUPPLY CARRIER (http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/spacemarines/gaming/ASC/paint.htm)

Brother Munro
17-05-2005, 13:43
Immolators, Repressors and Exorcists are built off of the Rhio chassis too, though they are not Space Marine vehicles. Other than that I can't think of anything else using Rhino STC data. A field hospital Rhino makes sense and I wouldn't object to a converted one :)

Berynius
17-05-2005, 14:06
Okay let me expand on the Apothecarium Medical Rhino, my thoughts is that it would make sense to have a vehicle that is able to function as a Battlefield ambulance.
My thoughts are that the interior would function as a improvised operating room, while it would be able to carry the less severely wounded marines on stretchers on the out side.
The Apothecarium would only be deployed once a landing site is relatively secure, it is not meant to be deployed in the frontlines. (But it will make the trips from frontline to a landing site where the wounded could be evacuated to the Battlebarge).

Morgan Keyes
17-05-2005, 14:28
You also have:

Baal-Pattern Predator - Blood Angel and Successors exclusive w/ twin assault cannon turret and sponsons with heavy bolters or heavy flamers.

Brother Munro mentioned the Sororitas variants:

Repressor - APC with storm bolter cupola, pintel-mounted flamer, dozer blade, and firing ports (also used by the Arbites)

Immolator - The Sisters Razorback-analogue

Exorcist - Whirlwind-analogue

Net Epic itself proposed specific Predators for the Salamander (autocannon turret and flamers in the sponsors) and White Scars (Heavy flamer turret, multi-melta sponsons)chapters.

And then in my own moments of musing I've thought about two fire support Rhino-variants, both using WH40K weapons of the past. One with a turret-mounted thudd gun for light, rapid artillery and another with a turret (or hull-mounted, like a tank destroyer) Rapier laser destroyer.

charlie_c67
17-05-2005, 14:34
How about a techmarine one with added tech servitors, towing equipment and all sorts of repair equipment, spare armour perhaps?
In the RT compendium there is something about apothcareys and rhinos but can't remember quite what at the mo.

malika
17-05-2005, 14:36
There used to be this old Rhino variant in RT era, similar to the Vindicator but then with a long barrel coming from the hull.

And didnt the Whirlwind had two versions? One with missles and the other one with mines?

Sai-Lauren
17-05-2005, 14:38
RT era (even up to 2nd edition epic) had rhinos being used almost as personal transports for officers, chaplains, medics etc. So add a trojan equivalent for techmarines and you'd be about there.

About the only other possiblity I can think of is a tank hunter - like the Sabre (RT era Rhino/Land Raider conversion) or the guard destroyer, because the predator is at best a medium tank, it's certainly not an MBT like the Russ. That's not a slight against the predator, and I certainly don't think Marines should have MBTs - they don't fit the marine's style of warfare. But a rhino chassis, maybe with something like a large calibre missile launcher (or internal H-K missile racks), to go armour hunting, would be useful.

Hmm, might have to build one now. :p

malika
17-05-2005, 14:42
What about a more amphibious Rhino, something that would go over water more easily?

Antaeus
17-05-2005, 15:01
Don't forget the 'Hunter' (I think) anti-aircraft variant from Epic :)

Morgan Keyes
17-05-2005, 15:03
There used to be this old Rhino variant in RT era, similar to the Vindicator but then with a long barrel coming from the hull.

That'd be the Saber with a hull-mounted autocannon.


And didnt the Whirlwind had two versions? One with missles and the other one with mines?

From the look of it, it's more case of switching out a Whilwind's pods then a seperate variant, much like a US M270 MLRS vehicle which can have either two six-shot rocket pods or a pair of ATACMS missiles.


About the only other possiblity I can think of is a tank hunter - like the Sabre (RT era Rhino/Land Raider conversion) or the guard destroyer, because the predator is at best a medium tank, it's certainly not an MBT like the Russ.

Sounds like my proposal for the Rapier Rhino/Predator above.


But a rhino chassis, maybe with something like a large calibre missile launcher (or internal H-K missile racks), to go armour hunting, would be useful.

The Hyperios anti-air rhino does do that after a fashion it's missiles can also engage armor in a pinch, somewhat like a modern ADATS missile system.

Berynius
17-05-2005, 15:16
I like the idea of at dedicated Techmarine Rhino, it would basically doe the same as the Trojan/Atlas vehicles for the Imperial Guard. But it could also serve as a mobile shrine to the machine god.

A fully amphibious Rhino would also be cool. It would fit perfectly with the background, as it is not unlikely that a chapter that found it self fighting in conditions that required the use of amphibious vehicles would modify the Rhino chassis to make it amphibious.
Also I like the new epic Rhino variants, I think it fit with the background that some chapters is willing to modify the Rhino/Predator so that it fit with is own fighting style

Sai-Lauren
17-05-2005, 16:08
Sounds like my proposal for the Rapier Rhino/Predator above.

Rapiers were multi-lasers, good against massed infantry, naff all use against armour ;)



The Hyperios anti-air rhino does do that after a fashion it's missiles can also engage armor in a pinch, somewhat like a modern ADATS missile system.
I'm thinking of a dedicated tank hunter rather than something pressed into service (leave that kind of thing to guard pointing Hydra's at gaunt swarms out of desperation), and

I want something diffferent to the big laser on the destroyer to mark it out
Autocannon don't really cut it above AV 12
Marines shouldn't have battle cannon

charlie_c67
17-05-2005, 16:23
Well that leaves lascannons, multimeltas, missile launchers, Heavy Plasma guns and AC's. Which do you reckon?

Sojourner
17-05-2005, 17:15
Bridge-layers? Hmm, posibly unnecessary if you have thunderhawks.

Vindicators with Demolition gear i.e. cranes and stuff?

Gun artillery? Not really in marine style.

How about a wheeled variant with extra comm and sensor gear for high speed recon?

Or how about a shipboard loading gurney with electric drive?

Flame Boy
17-05-2005, 19:16
Rapiers were multi-lasers, good against massed infantry, naff all use against armour ;)

Is this RT fluff? I disctinctly remember the Rapier as a four-chambered laser system designed to converge multiple beams on a target for increased armour penetration from the 2nd edition wargear book. It was an anti-tank field artillery piece. It was so heavy it had it's own motorised tractor unit, which does not sound like a multi-laser. They are even in the Necromunda rules, andf I thought they were about Str9 there as well.

That would be an interesting variant, but I'm not sure if it would fit with the Rapier theme... unless some canny Tech-priests retro-fitted the weapon onto a rhino-chassis, as the weapon is supposed to be pretty rare, most likely it's even more rare fitted to a vehicle, otherwise it would be everywhere. I would say it's best as a one-off conversion opportunity that a typical space marine tank hunter. However, I do like the idea a lot. :D

TheSonOfAbbadon
17-05-2005, 22:04
You could have a fast attack Rhino, with no capacity for passengers, 2 Razorback-style turrets and 2 Predator style sponstons, weak armour and a souped up engine [18" or 24" move] used for very fast zooming-in-kicking-some-ass-grabbing-sumat-then-getting-the-feck-outta-there style missions.

Easy E
18-05-2005, 05:04
Is this RT fluff? I disctinctly remember the Rapier as a four-chambered laser system designed to converge multiple beams on a target for increased armour penetration from the 2nd edition wargear book. It was an anti-tank field artillery piece. It was so heavy it had it's own motorised tractor unit, which does not sound like a multi-laser. They are even in the Necromunda rules, andf I thought they were about Str9 there as well.

Spot on!

I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but the marines shouldn't be around long enough to have to worry about sending in ambulances or armor recovery vehicles (at least not after the big double H). They are not frontline operations troopers. Armor recovery and medical evac would be done by ThunderHawks (potentially Transporter Thunderhawks) or follow on forces like the Guard.

Morgan Keyes
18-05-2005, 05:18
Rapiers were multi-lasers, good against massed infantry, naff all use against armour ;)

Check the old stuff as well as original Epic. They were anti-armor weapons. I've been following WH40K since Rogue Trader.

As for the Hyperios, that's why I mentioned ADATS. It's current real-world system used by Canada amoung others that serve in both anti-air and anti-armor roles. So less press into service and more a double duty system.

Morgan Keyes
18-05-2005, 05:37
I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but the marines shouldn't be around long enough to have to worry about sending in ambulances or armor recovery vehicles (at least not after the big double H). They are not frontline operations troopers. Armor recovery and medical evac would be done by ThunderHawks (potentially Transporter Thunderhawks) or follow on forces like the Guard.

Something that could be debated. Even "door kicking", forced entry units have things like engineers, MEDEVAC, and wreckers. And while "drop, blast, evac" is the ideal we've also seen enough of fluff with Marines in drawn out conflicts like Armaggedon. And the fluff usually throws around that there are never enough Thunderhawks around when you need them. Even a transporter variant can find many a disabled vehicle difficult to recover, especially when it must be done under fire. I don't think it's beyond the realm to conjecture about the concept of a Techmarine ARV/ACEV (Armored Recovery Vehicle/Armored Combat Engineering Vehicle). For MEDEVAC...eh, Thunderhawks do seem to come in more when "vanilla" Rhinos aren't pressed into service for CASEVAC. The whole "only have X amount of space for moving a unit".

Berynius
18-05-2005, 09:02
I agree with Morgan here, there are exampels of Marines deployed in a draw out conflict, to name one of the best know (written about) cases The Third Battle for Armageddon. In this campaign the entire Mortifactors chapter was deployed. Its seem illogical that they would not employ some specialised vehicles to fill the role of ARV/ACEV and MEDEVAC. After all, the Chapter need someway of recover its damage vehicles and wounded. It could be done with a Thunderhawk, but if I remember correctly, then for most of the war, the imperials did not have air supremacy, in fact I think for most of the early parts of the invasion the Orks had near total control of the sky, making Thunderhawk support sporadic to none existing.

Detoxin
18-05-2005, 15:26
After reading all the post about missiles. I thought about a alternative predator with some sort of missile system as sponsors. Then I found the chaos havoc launchers in my bit box and thought would look great as sponsors. And then you could have a heavy bolter as turret weapon. But that might not be so fluffy. But then again what do I know about SM.

Morgan Keyes
18-05-2005, 15:53
You could have a fast attack Rhino, with no capacity for passengers, 2 Razorback-style turrets and 2 Predator style sponstons, weak armour and a souped up engine [18" or 24" move] used for very fast zooming-in-kicking-some-ass-grabbing-sumat-then-getting-the-feck-outta-there style missions.

Though wouldn't a Predator borrowing the "Souped Up Engine" rule from the IG Salamander fit this role? Just trying to figure how to practically mount two Razorback turrets, not just fitting them on the deck but also how they could be used without interferring with each other.

Though now I'm getting this image of a Rhino kitted out like a Vietnam-era M113 Gavin APC, with a Heavy Bolter in a forward cupola and pintel-mounted Storm Bolters to each side for use by embarked troops.

TheSonOfAbbadon
18-05-2005, 16:52
A predator is a medium tank that can be fitted out for anti-tank or anti-infantry, I'm talking about a light vehicle thats meant to be good against infatry, and ok against weak armour.

And the 2 pred turrets could go on the front next to each other, like the LR TL heavy bolter.

I like the sound of a bridge layer rhino, with a fold out brigde on the front and a read access hatch to allow marines accross rivers or other impassable terrain.

Sai-Lauren
18-05-2005, 17:31
I like the sound of a bridge layer rhino, with a fold out brigde on the front and a read access hatch to allow marines accross rivers or other impassable terrain.
But would marines really need something like that?
They can use things like teleporting Terminators, Land Speeders, T/Hawks or drop pods to attack targets on the other side, then either keep attacking targets behind the lines, get picked up (if they're raiding an objective) or dig in (maybe with assistance from drop guard) whilst they wait for their allies to cross the terrain feature and reinforce them. Or if it's that short a gap, they can probably send the assault squads with jump packs across to secure the other side whilst they bring pre-fab bridge segments down from their orbital support.

Guard certainly do need bridge layers (they're deploy and drop by the way, not some kind of bridge with an apc doing an impression of a bunker on the other side), also things like the D-Day funnies (carpet laying vehicles to minimise the effects of soft ground, bulldozers to clear tank traps etc and of course, the famous mine clearing flail and so on), but I'm not so sure marines need something that specialised. They can't really afford space to carry equipment they may not need, most marine equipment should be multi-role if possible (I know, I know, I'm the one arguing for a specialised tank hunter ;)).


Check the old stuff as well as original Epic. They were anti-armor weapons. I've been following WH40K since Rogue Trader.
Guess I missed that one when I was at university. It's still a little too close to the destroyer though IMO.

TheSonOfAbbadon
18-05-2005, 17:45
But would marines really need something like that?
They can use things like teleporting Terminators, Land Speeders, T/Hawks or drop pods to attack targets on the other side, then either keep attacking targets behind the lines, get picked up (if they're raiding an objective) or dig in (maybe with assistance from drop guard) whilst they wait for their allies to cross the terrain feature and reinforce them. Or if it's that short a gap, they can probably send the assault squads with jump packs across to secure the other side whilst they bring pre-fab bridge segments down from their orbital support.

Bridge-layer rhino would be SO much quicker. Besides, marines attack quickly and rarely dig in and play defender, so hanging around doing nothing wouldn't really suit their tactics.

Morgan Keyes
18-05-2005, 22:50
Just as a caveat, I draw my ideas from my time with the US Army airborne forces. But some parallels can be drawn...


But would marines really need something like that?
They can use things like teleporting Terminators, Land Speeders, T/Hawks or drop pods to attack targets on the other side, then either keep attacking targets behind the lines, get picked up (if they're raiding an objective) or dig in (maybe with assistance from drop guard) whilst they wait for their allies to cross the terrain feature and reinforce them. Or if it's that short a gap, they can probably send the assault squads with jump packs across to secure the other side whilst they bring pre-fab bridge segments down from their orbital support.

That does assume that those options are available. Units like the 82nd Airborne Division or 101st Air Assault can't always count on being able to jump or chopper onto each objective, or use that option for every obstacle that crops up. Marines may need to get over an objective and bring a mechanized punch over with them from word "go". As for bringing them over strictly by T-Hawk, there still come the issues of:

a) Do you have enough airlift to do the job?
b) Is the airspace suppressed enough to allow the option?
c) Does the force have the time to sit around while assets are shifted to make a vertical assault?

And keep in mind that having a Rhino with a bridge or mineplow does not necessarily take away from the Marines' goal of multi-function and getting the most from limited assets. Certainly within the realm of possibility for these features to be bolted on as needed, much like you see mineplows added as required to M1 Abrams or M2 Bradleys (though I certainly wouldn't want to be in a plow-equipped Brad!).



Guess I missed that one when I was at university. It's still a little too close to the destroyer though IMO.

Perhapes, but you were asking about a tank-destroyer and it does give them something that's...

a) Not ammo-dependent like a missile-TD
b) Should fit alot better on a Rhino chassis then some of the larger AT weapons.
c) Be able to do a passable job in the anti-personnel role since it is a rapid fire weapon (which was a secondary role for the Rapiers, as was restated with the unit info on the Siege Infantry army list for Epic: Armaggedon).

Well my Rapier Rhino/Predator seems to have taken a beating. Least my Thudd Rhino hasn't drawn fire yet,...or much of anything for that matter. :( Ah well.

Puffin Magician
19-05-2005, 01:25
I think it has less to do with another attack variant and more about the Marines tossing materiel into a Rhino out of necessity. Ground-to-Orbit communication arrays, bulk transport variants carrying missile reloads [or just thousands of Bolter shells], Ambulances [considering what's been mentioned earlier; perhaps just stocked with non-crucial supplies, but things too cumbersome for the Apothecary to personally carry around], and perhaps some even archaic weapons like siege towers [when there aren't enough Jump Packs to go around]. Let's not forget we can't even begin to imagine what Hobart's Funnies would look like 37,950 years after D-Day:
Mobile energy-shield disruptors allowing infantry to breach a gap in Void Shields protecting an enemy starport/fortress?
Chemical de-forestation weapons to clear Landing Zones for Thunderhawk Gunships?
One-use versions for specific campaigns [think of them as microcosmic Ordinatii]?
Mobile sanctuary for the Chapter's Chaplains?
Even Space Marines need sustinance. Rhinos ferrying around "food" [or whatever kind of nutrient paste they eat] and water would be integral to any campaign.

I also think a Space Marine ARV/CEV isn't out of the question, surely a tank bristling with cranes, ploughs, tow cables and hydraulic shovels matches the 'multifunction' theme of the Marines.


You could have a fast attack Rhino, with no capacity for passengers, 2 Razorback-style turrets and 2 Predator style sponstons, weak armour and a souped up engine used for ...etc.I doubt that would be appropriate. A superfast Predator that is underarmoured [when it has skimpy armour to begin with] and even more weapons? Why not utilize the terrifying effect of a Land Raider? Marines have Land Speeder Typhoons and Tornadoes to go fast with guns ablaze.

Berynius
19-05-2005, 05:59
But would marines really need something like that?
They can use things like teleporting Terminators, Land Speeders, T/Hawks or drop pods to attack targets on the other side, then either keep attacking targets behind the lines, get picked up (if they're raiding an objective) or dig in (maybe with assistance from drop guard) whilst they wait for their allies to cross the terrain feature and reinforce them. Or if it's that short a gap, they can probably send the assault squads with jump packs across to secure the other side whilst they bring pre-fab bridge segments down from their orbital support.

Guard certainly do need bridge layers (they're deploy and drop by the way, not some kind of bridge with an apc doing an impression of a bunker on the other side), also things like the D-Day funnies (carpet laying vehicles to minimise the effects of soft ground, bulldozers to clear tank traps etc and of course, the famous mine clearing flail and so on), but I'm not so sure marines need something that specialised. They can't really afford space to carry equipment they may not need, most marine equipment should be multi-role if possible (I know, I know, I'm the one arguing for a specialised tank hunter ;)).


Guess I missed that one when I was at university. It's still a little too close to the destroyer though IMO.

That is the problem, as I see it a Space Marine chapter would have some specialised vehicles, but not many. The bridge-layer is a good example; there are too few instances where such a vehicle would be useful. It would probably be only be used I rare cases. But something like the ARV/ACEV or MEDEVAC would be used in almost all engagements of a certain size.
I think that such vehicles are only deployed on the Company level and above. It is not unlikely that such specialist vehicles are stored on the chapters Battlebarge.

Hmm a tank-hunter that would be interesting, may be it would be armed with a Hull mounted Plasma Destroyer like the Leman Russ Executioner, or if you are very brutal try fitting it with a Plasma Blast Gun (Warhoud/Stormblade)

Easy E
20-05-2005, 03:37
I think it has less to do with another attack variant and more about the Marines tossing materiel into a Rhino out of necessity. Ground-to-Orbit communication arrays, bulk transport variants carrying missile reloads [or just thousands of Bolter shells], Ambulances [considering what's been mentioned earlier; perhaps just stocked with non-crucial supplies, but things too cumbersome for the Apothecary to personally carry around], and perhaps some even archaic weapons like siege towers [when there aren't enough Jump Packs to go around]. Let's not forget we can't even begin to imagine what Hobart's Funnies would look like 37,950 years after D-Day:
Mobile energy-shield disruptors allowing infantry to breach a gap in Void Shields protecting an enemy starport/fortress?
Chemical de-forestation weapons to clear Landing Zones for Thunderhawk Gunships?
One-use versions for specific campaigns [think of them as microcosmic Ordinatii]?
Mobile sanctuary for the Chapter's Chaplains?
Even Space Marines need sustinance. Rhinos ferrying around "food" [or whatever kind of nutrient paste they eat] and water would be integral to any campaign.

Good points. I guess it boils down to what you perceive the Marines role to be in the Imperium.

Many of the variants you list seem to fit the large formations of marines that were fielded before the big Double H. Nowadays, the marines are more involved with small operations where there small numbers can tip the balance. They may make them for certain huge campaigns (i.e. Armageddon) but they do not keep them in stores and on hand ready to roll. Many of the above varients sound great for the IG, but not the marines.

The large engagements like Armageddon and Eye of Terror are not the normal way of doing business for a Marine Chapter where they deploy all there strength in one go. Usually it is a company of 100 marines (give or take) engaging in specialist missions to tip the balance. In these cases guard (or PDF) elements would be tasked with logisitics support.

WLBjork
20-05-2005, 13:06
I think Berynius is probably closest to the mark.

I think that Battlebarges (and possibly Strike Cuisers as well) will be equipped with kits to allow Rhinos to be converted to specialist battlefield roles as necessary.

I believe that one of the main roles will be as an ARV. It will not always be practical for a Thunderhawk to access vehicles that have been knocked out, so ARVs will be a necessity.

Bridgelayers also have a high probability of being present, bearing in mind that they can also be used to provide a ramp to get over walls. It isn't always practical to blow a hole in the wall.

Armoured Engineering Vehicles, most likely modified from the Vindicator, would be another varient. The Marines are often beachhead troops and such vehicles would provide valuble support in smashing through areas with numerous bunkers and minefields.

I can also see varients other than the Hyperios in the Air Defence role - specifically a varient with twin LB Autocannon (unfortunately the Assault Cannon is too short ranged to be effective :( )

Easy E
01-06-2005, 19:01
I suppose the Rhino is supposedly the most common vehicle in the galaxy so their must be hundreds of local varients. However, these varients would probably not be standard equipment for SM. They might have some specialist kit in storage on the battlebarge, but that would take time to assemble and deploy when needed.

I feel that a PDF IG list would make use of the prevalent rhino over the more complex chimera. The Chimera would be reserved for actual IG regiments. Therfore I think the question should be what rhino varients are available to PDF, and not what rhino varients are available for SM.

Berynius
02-06-2005, 07:57
But if you look at it, only space marines have access to the existing Rhino variants, they already have 5 (8 with the predetor sub-classes) variants available. There for I was speculating on the possibility there was more, as yet undescriped variants.
I think that you are right that as a STC vehicle, there exists numberless local variants, but I do not think that they are in the hands of the PDF's, I think that the Rhino are reserved for Space Marines, Arbiters and Sisters. But I could be wrong here. (It would not be the first time ;) )

bigbauske
03-06-2005, 18:29
I believe Rhino's are also given to inquisition storm troopers and probable adaptes mech troops.

As for variations, the use of STC would surly allow for multiple uses and variations. But in this thread I think we are talking the most common. And I believe the armored recovery vehicle and the medic vehicle would almost always be part of a larger force.

Think of the ARV. Although you have thunerhawks, you need to get the stuck vehicle, wither it had a blown track, was stuck in the mud or rolled into a ditch, most of these situations put you in a position where you may not be able to land a thunderhawk. Just think of the terrain in a city fight, ruin ect. They would pose problems for landing so you need to tow the vehicle to the landing zone. Then think of the cases where it might be just a damaged track, transaxle, clutch or engine. All quickly repairable but they need the tools and parts to fix them, You are not going to just pull it from the field and send it back to the Battle barge/strike cruiser.

Now on to the medic var. you need to fix your troops in the same way you fix your vehicles, it is estimated that for the long term effects of war it is better to wound/cripple rather than kill. but that is another topic, what I am trying to say is that their will always be needed a way to minimize the long term effects of casualties, I do not care about the fluff of a space marine, you do not spend years and millions in assets to create a super human fighting machine to leave them die because you could not take care of a sucking chest wound, arortal wounding to the leg/neck/arm, internal injuries that cause a person to bleed out inside their body, or any of the various wounds combat can cause. It does not make sense and no matter what the reason it is not cost effective. Even the best trained elite forces of today have docs and pay allot of attention to taking care of wounded.

The other variation needed would be a bridge layer/combat engineer type or vehicle. For a mobile force, their will always be streams, rivers, slews and gullies that are not easily passable without a bridging mechanism. Again just like the tank and the person, you do not want your spear head force to stop because a blown bridge or impassable antitank ditch.

Goblinardo
04-06-2005, 03:12
I suppose the Rhino is supposedly the most common vehicle in the galaxy so their must be hundreds of local varients. However, these varients would probably not be standard equipment for SM. They might have some specialist kit in storage on the battlebarge, but that would take time to assemble and deploy when needed.

I feel that a PDF IG list would make use of the prevalent rhino over the more complex chimera. The Chimera would be reserved for actual IG regiments. Therfore I think the question should be what rhino varients are available to PDF, and not what rhino varients are available for SM.

The most common vehicle in the galaxy is the Land Crawler, aka Land Tractor (one of the STCs found by Arkhan Land, along with the Speeder and the Raider) It's used on pretty much every Imperial agro-world and it has been pressed in military service many times (the Siegemasters' Bruennhilde gun transport is an offshoot of the Land Crawler) Rhinos are too high-tech for a PDF force IMHO.

Getz
04-06-2005, 13:48
To be honest, I don't think the Marines need a "Hospital" vehicle, just an ambulance. That role can be carried out admirably by a Rhino with a red cross painted on the sides.

I think the reality would be that basic Rhinos are adaptable to all transportation needs simply by changing the seating arrangement, and that includes ambulances and personal transports (certainly the real world analogues like the US M113 and British Spartan were).

This means that the only gaps unplugged are those of an Engineering vehicle and an ARV. Afterall, tank hunter = Predator Annihilator. Firesupport = Whirlwind. Why dupilcate existing designs?

On the ARV, if you use tanks than you need an ARV. Thunderhawk transporters are all very well, but what if you only want to tow a beached Predator back onto the road? A Rhino with an over powered engine, earthspade and set of winches is all that would be required (perhaps with Predator thickness armour and the ability to transport a Techmarine and his servitors as well).

As for the Engineering vehicle - this would probably be akin to the post war Centurian Engineering Vehicle. A single chassis designed to accept a modular array of equipment, so that the same vehicle could be used as a Mine sweeper or Bridge layer (actually an "Ark" where the vehcile drove into the gap and was equiped so that other vehicles could drive over it) as the situation required.

If more complex engineering support was required, then the most efficient approach would be to detail an IG engineering section to do it. Space Marine Chapters simply aren't large enough to cover every single aspect of military technical support and a decent Armoured Engineering Regiment would have more "funnies" than a Space Marine Chapter would have tanks...

Gregorus
05-06-2005, 00:12
On the ARV, if you use tanks than you need an ARV. Thunderhawk transporters are all very well, but what if you only want to tow a beached Predator back onto the road? A Rhino with an over powered engine, earthspade and set of winches is all that would be required (perhaps with Predator thickness armour and the ability to transport a Techmarine and his servitors as well).

IMHO the ARV in a marines armored column would be one ARV too many. If a tank is damaged beond field recovery, it would be taken by a T. Transporter, and for moving stuck tanks a one or two Rhinos or a Land Raider and a tow cable would be sufficient...

my 2c

bigbauske
05-06-2005, 05:13
The ARV is not in the moving column, it is the rear, sent forward after the attack to recover the busted tanks. Remember that ARV are not frint line vehicals, they are rear echelone support. They get the vehical and bring it back to the mechs/tech priests/tech marines to fix. In the heat of a battle a ARV is just a vehical waiting to get smoke so the crews will usually get out of dodge. Only under extremise will the ARV go under fire to get a wounded tank. During WWII most of the time when ARV faced fire, was when someone stumbled upon them or they moved forward to fast with the fliudness of the ar sometimes.
But back on track. No in a advancing column you would not have ARV's or even Medical transports. But several miles rear, ready to scream forward and grabe the woulnded and the broken would be the combat medics and the ARV's. So to that end I think there would versions of these in a Space marine force.

Morgan Keyes
05-06-2005, 19:34
IMHO the ARV in a marines armored column would be one ARV too many. If a tank is damaged beond field recovery, it would be taken by a T. Transporter, and for moving stuck tanks a one or two Rhinos or a Land Raider and a tow cable would be sufficient...

my 2c

That's very field expedient and like any field expedient, "what we do when the tools aren't there". An ARV in many ways is more then just a tow truck, many having the gear to do on-the-spot repairs. And bringing a T-hawk Transporter isn't an ideal solution since 1) likely needed someplace else, 2) close terrain preventing them getting in, 3) if a vehicle was disabled it can very well have damage preventing it from being picked up (burning, blown out pieces, deformed, etc).

Consider it an AFV version of a Techmarine if you have to picture it's place rules-wise. An ARV also is normally geared to pulling vehicles that are mired or trashed that you just can't do with tow hooks and pintels. That's why they have things like cranes and A-frames, and special winches. If it was as simple as throwing a tow-bar then no military today would bother with ARVs. Even the Marines and the Airborne have them, and they both are always concerned with limited space for moving stuff to the fight.

Puffin Magician
06-06-2005, 02:10
ARVs to more then just drag stuck tanks out of a bog. Many have cranes for digging trenches, anti-tank ditches, and CEVs [Combat Engineering Vehicle] have been armed with short-ranged cannons designed to blast apart defences, in a similar but less powerful version of the Vindicator.

The point raised about rescuing immobilized Land Raiders raises an interesting thought; would the Marines not need a special ARV Land Raider, much like the Germans were required to build a recovery vehicle based on the Tiger because other ARVs simply were not powerful enough to rescue a bogged down Tiger tank with it's impressively large cannon and thick armour.

Getz
06-06-2005, 03:12
I suspect a bogged down Land Raider would justify a T Hawk Transporter - they are supposed to be pretty rare after all...

However, in extremis you could just couple a pair of Rhino ARV's together with a T bar in the way the Germans did when they had to recover a Tiger with their regular recovery Half Tracks.

bigbauske
06-06-2005, 03:31
They probable would but I have seen pictures and ead report of the Germans using 2 panzer IV's to get a panther or tiger out. I would believe you could do the same with 2 rhino's or preditors.

Easy E
07-06-2005, 00:16
The most common vehicle in the galaxy is the Land Crawler, aka Land Tractor (one of the STCs found by Arkhan Land, along with the Speeder and the Raider) It's used on pretty much every Imperial agro-world and it has been pressed in military service many times (the Siegemasters' Bruennhilde gun transport is an offshoot of the Land Crawler) Rhinos are too high-tech for a PDF force IMHO.

Let me clarify, the most common military vehicle.

http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/wd174_razorback.shtml

and for some more general technology fun try

http://www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/technology.shtml

Lord_Dante
07-06-2005, 17:43
I've read recently that Marine Commanders will have Rhinos attached to them and modified for their own uses. For example Chaplains turning them into miniature shrines, techmarines adding extra equipment and tools, that sort of thing. The new How To Paint Space Marines book has great pictures of a techmarine rhino and Marnus Calgnars personal command rhino with personal heraldry and things.