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JimmyFrank
10-11-2009, 23:30
Ok here's an issue that caused some heated conflict in my last battle.
There seems to be no hard and fast rule on this so I'm asking what the majority
of people here play in their games (but if there is a rule I'm very interested to hear it).

This was the situation: A unit of 10 Dark Elf Xbowmen. The bases of the front five
were fully on the hill while only at very most 2mm of the back rank's bases were on the
hill (in other words not 50% of their bases, they were just touching it).
So the question: Does the back rank gain the ability to shoot over the top of the front
(as per the rules for units on hills).

My argument was that because the back rank was not even near 50% on the hill then they did not gain the bonus.
My opponents argument was that it was not an argument because he was right (and he knew it) although he couldn't find anything in the rulebook to support him :p
In the end he refused to even roll of for it, so in the interests of finishing the game I just gave it to him.

So what does the wider warseer community think?

narrativium
10-11-2009, 23:38
Certain terrain rules are agreed with your opponent before the game begins (e.g., woods are high enough that no-one can see over them but they can be flown over, hills might be tiered rather than observing an obscure contour, ruins can be seen through or not, etc.).

I think I usually play that a model even partly on a hill is considered to be on it, can take advantage of his vantage point and can be seen, shot at, charged etc. in turn; no 50% of the base involved. 50% of the base/models would influence whether a unit counts as in a wood for the purposes of being shot at, cover modifiers, etc., though.

Da GoBBo
10-11-2009, 23:40
I can't recall any hard ruling on this one, so it's up to house rules. We allways play you'r on a hill if you'r on a hill, even if it's just a little bit. So we would have given your opponent the bonus

JimmyFrank
10-11-2009, 23:44
Thanks GoBBo, good to know I wasn't being cheated then :)

gormaster
11-11-2009, 02:09
It sounds like your opponent was shooting up hill? If that is the case (you were also on the hill) it would be cheesie for him to still claim the bonus since you had the high ground. Still this should be agreed upon before game and its bad form to not roll it off in any case, in the interest of fun and sportsmanship.

JimmyFrank
11-11-2009, 03:18
Well I wasn't on the hill, so that wasn't the issue. However, his target was my doom wheel. His models were on the otherside of the hill, so they couldn't draw line of sight (if they were on the hill they could see it).
But anyway, its probably something I'll just let this particular character have his way with in future. It wasn't worth the angst it created :p (abit of goodwill and a roll off would have been nice though, seems against the spirit of the game)

jaxom
11-11-2009, 05:33
I gotta add that our group plays the same rule... Anything touching the terrain is a model entirely in/on the terrain. True of woods and hills. Seems to be pretty common around this area...

narrativium
11-11-2009, 08:23
Not quite. In contact with the terrain doesn't mean you're in it - you can't, for example, Treesing a wood into contact with an enemy unit and then Treesing them for damage for being in the wood. But being on the hill/wood, then yes, the rules for the terrain feature apply.

Warsmith Tharak
11-11-2009, 10:06
Doom wheel is a large target, so he could shoot with both ranks anyway. I dont have my book with me but I think it only says units on a hill can shoot in two ranks, since the unit was on a hill (unly just, but still) he can shoot with both ranks...

narrativium
11-11-2009, 11:03
Units on a hill can fire with two ranks. Units firing at a unit on a hill, or a large target, can fire with every model that can see - three, four, five ranks, etc..

This also means a charge on a large target can potentially be declared by a model in the back rank of a unit, if the large target is (say) sufficiently to the side that the front rank can't see it.

JimmyFrank
12-11-2009, 05:03
My doom wheel was on the opposite side of the hill, so in order for the back rank to have seen it they would have to have been on the hill (we play hills block LOS to large targets)

Warsmith Tharak
12-11-2009, 06:20
Then only the first rank would be able to shoot.

JimmyFrank
12-11-2009, 07:25
ah no but this all harks back to the original question of whether the back rank is eligible for the shooting on hills bonus even if they are only just touching it, and by general consensus they are