PDA

View Full Version : Ork Guilt Syndrome



senorcardgage
11-11-2009, 04:10
Hey dudes. I have quite a few armies for 40k and orks are one of them. I like to use my orks because very few people have them where I play and orks are just cool. That said, I really dislike using my orks because it seems like it is just too easy to win with them.

I feel like I'm being unfair when I use my orks. I don't use a super-tough list or anything, and I've even used very different lists, but get the same results. At this point I've played 34 games with my orks and have only lost once, and that was against another ork army!

Does anybody else feel this way about orks, or any other army? Do you think that I am justified in my feelings, or should I just get over it?

Thanks for reading.

Writerski7
11-11-2009, 04:14
Hey dudes. I have quite a few armies for 40k and orks are one of them. I like to use my orks because very few people have them where I play and orks are just cool. That said, I really dislike using my orks because it seems like it is just too easy to win with them.

I feel like I'm being unfair when I use my orks. I don't use a super-tough list or anything, and I've even used very different lists, but get the same results. At this point I've played 34 games with my orks and have only lost once, and that was against another ork army!

Does anybody else feel this way about orks, or any other army? Do you think that I am justified in my feelings, or should I just get over it?

Thanks for reading.

Lol . . . just remember to enjoy the game. If your opponent is fine with it then you should be fine with it.

DuskRaider
11-11-2009, 04:15
This happens a lot with my Death Guard army. What it comes down to is, a lot of people don't make an all-comers list. I consistently play my friend with Tau and he consistently brings a Railhead heavy list when I footslog. What happens? He wastes Railgun shots on infantry until I walk into his deployment zone and wipe him off the board.

Truth be told, I've actually started an Ork army to get AWAY from that. To me, my Codex has become so predictable and boring, I need a change.

What kind of opponents are you playing? I'm sure if you're playing new folks, you'll wipe the floor with them. On the flip side, I can see Guard being a decent challenge for Orks if tooled out right, same with Nids. Let's hear some more info, what's your list like and what are you playing against?

Laurela
11-11-2009, 04:15
I don't feel this way when I win using any of my lists, what type of Ork lists are you putting out there?

Ddraiglais
11-11-2009, 04:15
In 3.5 I was this way with my IW. Even when I used my 2nd company made up of a Khornate lord and a bunch of bezerkers (using the BL list), I felt guilty because my army was painted as IW and everyone whined about them.

I wouldn't worry about it. Every army gets it's time in the sun. Right now it's the Orks. In the next edition or after a few more codices are released, it'll be another army.

senorcardgage
11-11-2009, 04:19
First off, I generally play 1k games because that's what I can get most of the time in the area. I always start off with a big mek with kustom force field, a unit of 30 slugga boys including nob with klaw, and a unit of 30 shoota boys including 3 big shootas and a nob with klaw.

That comes to 530 points and I just fill the rest with a combination of nobs, killa kans, dreads, koptas, big guns, bikes, or whatever. I play a whole bunch of different lists, its hard to comment on that.

Creeping Dementia
11-11-2009, 04:24
I don't think it really has anything to do with Orks in general, I don't have a ton of trouble with them.

Maybe you're just a really good Ork player, some people just click with certain armies.

Either that or maybe the opponents in your area are still stuck on building lists geared toward anti-MeQ, that was the big problem with Orks initially. Most all-comers lists now have templates and blasts that can deal with hordes, but I occasionally see armies that still haven't adapted to 5th ed (armies with 2 weak troop choices, not enough volume of firepower/attacks, and too much low AP weaponry).

1000pts really favor some armies over others too. Orks in particular do really well under 1500 pts IMO, they can really bring a ton of bodies.

ColonalKlink
11-11-2009, 04:25
in my area everyone uses anti MEQ lists and i had not played for a while, turned up with my orks and... lots of easy wins, long story short they all started to change thier lists and fun was had as i stared to lose more often, i suppose what im trying to say is.. get them to change their lists to make it more compertative :P

Tethylis
11-11-2009, 04:27
Have you thought maybe it's not the army that keeps winning but the player? I used to win alot of games with my Eldar, it got to the point where it just was'nt fun any more cos I had no one to challange me. So I switched over to Necrons (everyone seems to say they get beat real easy) and I still have not lost a game with them yet. Last game it was 5000pts of combined Blood Angels & Salamanders Vs 3000pts of Necrons and still the Nec's won! :wtf:

Vaktathi
11-11-2009, 04:27
Hey dudes. I have quite a few armies for 40k and orks are one of them. I like to use my orks because very few people have them where I play and orks are just cool. That said, I really dislike using my orks because it seems like it is just too easy to win with them.

I feel like I'm being unfair when I use my orks. I don't use a super-tough list or anything, and I've even used very different lists, but get the same results. At this point I've played 34 games with my orks and have only lost once, and that was against another ork army!

Does anybody else feel this way about orks, or any other army? Do you think that I am justified in my feelings, or should I just get over it?

Thanks for reading.

If you feel you really are winning far too often, you could start giving your opponents tactical advice on how they could better counter your actions, list building suggestions, etc. You could try playing at a points handicap, etc.

there's no reason to get rid of the army, just change it up. Orks shouldn't be a walkover, but they aren't anywhere near impossible to defeat either for a decent general. Harder than some others? Yes, but not definitely not unbeatable.

Hicks
11-11-2009, 04:45
If that's really how you build your list you shouldn't feel guilty. Ork lists can be much much more lethal and cheezy. Is it possible that the people you play against only use anti-marine and anti-mech lists? They can overkill a couple boys all they want, but that won't stop the tide. It is entirely possible to beat Orks if you have a couple weapons that can manage hordes, if you have none however...

ReveredChaplainDrake
11-11-2009, 04:54
Been there. I've got Chaos Marine Guilt Syndrome. Fortunately, I can relieve my "guilt" by turning my Daemons from wacky contingents into a full-blown Daemon army.


At this point I've played 34 games with my orks and have only lost once, and that was against another ork army!
Just to point something out, just because your army doesn't "lose" doesn't mean the codex is broken. It just means that, after 34 games, you've figured out ways to avoid losing each time. Drawing is extremely easy in 5th edition because everything is counted in such small increments with such black-and-white requirements for victory. Objectives can be contested very easily by very fast units pulling hokey tank shocks, turbo-boosts, and Run moves on Turns 5-7. This makes D3+2 Objectives tough to "win", while the 2 Objective mission is basically a draw waiting to happen, when playing against roughly equal skill levels. Heck, even with Kill Points, you usually give what you take and take what you give.

If you want to shake things up, assuming you don't field every (or nearly every) single unit in the codex, mix things up and field units that you wouldn't otherwise normally field. You put yourself at a greater challenge, it gives you more modeling and painting projects to work on, and you might just learn something new about your codex.

Also, what I do with my Chaos Marines is something of a gauntlet challenge. Pick one good list that you have and don't change it until you face somebody and lose. (It also has the added benefit of making your army transportation easier by not packing any models that you're not using.) Then, let anybody tailor their list any way they want and see what they can do to stop you. If that doesn't help enough, let your opponent pick what mission objective and/or deployment style they want to play.

senorcardgage
11-11-2009, 04:58
Just to point something out, just because your army doesn't "lose" doesn't mean the codex is broken. It just means that, after 34 games, you've figured out ways to avoid losing each time.

I have only tied 4 times too, but I agree with you completely

Lothlanathorian
11-11-2009, 08:23
In 3.5 I was this way with my IW. Even when I used my 2nd company made up of a Khornate lord and a bunch of bezerkers (using the BL list), I felt guilty because my army was painted as IW and everyone whined about them.

I wouldn't worry about it. Every army gets it's time in the sun. Right now it's the Orks. In the next edition or after a few more codices are released, it'll be another army.

See, you should only have felt guilty if you were using your Berzerker models as Iron Warriors lol.

It's the guys who show up with an army painted like Howling Griffons and field them as Iron Warriors because they want that 5 Dollar gift certificate soooo bad and if they don't get, their mother won't love them anymore who should feel guilty.

The True Mooseman
11-11-2009, 09:33
You are not alone! I generally do far better with my Orks than I feel I should, and I only started playing the game about a year ago! In the end I used that winning streak as an incentive to try out the 'weaker' options in the list - my Flash Gitz aren't quite done yet but when they are it means I can either lose with dignity or win with pride!

Oh, and lose the KFF Mek, he shouldn't be in a non-competetive list. Or even better, give him a Shokk Attack Gun - mine might be the only unit I've used every single game and I intend to keep it that way.

Karhedron
11-11-2009, 10:41
Yesterday I would have agreed and said that Orks are a cheasy-to-win army. However that might just be becaue they steamrollered me 2 weeks ago. ;)

Last night I fought a very similar Ork horde (although played by a less experienced gamer) and managed a solid win (might even have got a wipe-out if the game had gone on longer).

My conclusion is that Orks are a strongish army but not a broken one. It is players that win games more than lists.


give him a Shokk Attack Gun - mine might be the only unit I've used every single game and I intend to keep it that way.
QFT! That thing scares the heck out of me. It wiped out nearly all my Long Fangs in one shot. I was seriously lucky that my opponent ended up firing it at the Crusader that was steaming towards his objective where it failed to do anything. If he had continued fragging my infantry I would have run out of Marines really fast.

Plus that X*!$%X Mek just would not die! He took lascannons, krak missiles and assault cannons and passed every single cover save! He must have passed over 12 4+ saves without loosing a single wound by the end of the game. :eek:

Max1mum
11-11-2009, 10:55
I have only tied 4 times too, but I agree with you completely

I'm tempted to think that you might be broken if i look at your -complete- track record ;-). You just seem to be a good player in your group.

I think everything has been said to help you go on ;-)

The best suggestion was from Vaktathi, help your opponents beat you ;-). And in that way help your self improve your game :P.

the1stpip
11-11-2009, 13:55
I have hads that problem with my Dark Eldar. It used to be funny when my noobish opponent usded to see what I was fielding and said, 'Cor, Dark Eldar, they're crap, they are' and then proceeded to get the snot kicked outta him.

But these days I only use them in tournaments, cos they tend to dispirit opponents when they get tabled on turn 3 or 4.

lachlin
11-11-2009, 14:42
If you played them "forever", Don't feel bad about it. You are an ork player. Not a player who has orks :)

Bunnahabhain
11-11-2009, 15:21
If you find an army too easy to win with, but don't want to, or can't ( insufficent time/ money/space to build and paint another) change armies, then change your list. Use less powerful units.

In particular a KFF Big Mek is a very strong element, that in 1000pts can give almost your whole army a cover save.

If you can keep winning with deliberately softened list, then it will improve your game no end.

Corpse
11-11-2009, 18:13
Its more like "Area Syndrome", where there is just that one army nobody is properly prepared to face in either army composition or experience. They can't figure out either if they never play against their foe.

Like a friend says;
"If I do not face all armies how can I truly know what I'm weak against and need to work for?"

primarch16
11-11-2009, 18:48
Had that a little when I borrowed my brothers Slaanesh (before the new chaos dex) and played a guard army, totally obliterated him. Only took down one or two models I think. Second the Slaanesh lord on mount got into combat (I think they had a max move+assualt of 24 inches or something stupid) I just moved from unit to unit. To be fair his army set up sucked, was more or less all infantry.

Either way didnt really make to be a fun game. But in my opinion 5th ed chaos was just who can build a bigger nastier lord/daemon prince. But thats another thread :D

Lanparth
11-11-2009, 19:28
Orks are very hard to lose with when fighting against anti-MEQ armies. No joke.

Bloodknight
11-11-2009, 19:59
I have hads that problem with my Dark Eldar. It used to be funny when my noobish opponent usded to see what I was fielding and said, 'Cor, Dark Eldar, they're crap, they are' and then proceeded to get the snot kicked outta him.

But these days I only use them in tournaments, cos they tend to dispirit opponents when they get tabled on turn 3 or 4.

Sort of ditto ;).
I've got my best win record with the DE, too - I hardly ever lose with that army, they're still that good and I just get them (with a lot of practice, though, been playing them since 1998). During the time of the old IG codex, I used them to end losing streaks ^^.

Guard is a bit mixed, but mostly victories with the new book, to a point that I had to take a break from the army, it became boring, especially since MechGuard is basically a giant dice fest without the 100-dice-per-assault shortcut of the Orks...you just have to roll 9 dice per vehicle, 3 times 3 dice, then the stuff inside, then the Ordnance, and if you really want to **** off people, take lots of small blasts so your shooting phase takes ages with about 30 models on the table...

I don't get the hang of CSM, though. After 6 years of Deathguard I still usually lose with them. I should field cheesier stuff ^^.

LKHERO
11-11-2009, 20:06
If you're a good general, you'll teach your opponents how to get better.

34-1 doesn't seem like even odds to me.

Argastes
11-11-2009, 20:13
Yeah, at 34-1, I suspect the problem is with your opponents. Not that might not still be a good tactician, but I suspect your opponents are consistently failing to implement good anti-Ork tactics and list builds.

EDIT: And Bunnahabhain is right, a KFF mek is a very useful unit especially in a 1000 point game since he can put a cover save on basically your entire horde. Swap him out for a warboss, or a non-KFF-equipped mek, if you want to make your own situation a little tougher.

Copella
12-11-2009, 00:52
At 1000pts, a lot of armies won't have as much options to deal with orks. Move up to 1750, or 2250pts. Some armies really need more than 1000 points before they can safely take non troop choice options. Especially considering objective missions.
That being said, there are armies that will completely mow down orkz at those point lvls, since they can't take the super units safely. I can build a anti-horde UNIT with Sisters that can burn a full squad of boyz with ease.
A lot of it depends on your local meta-game (which everyone seems to be hinting at already). Don't feel bad about it, they'll learn/catch on. Than you'll get stomped pretty bad and have to start rethinking things yourself.

Death Company
12-11-2009, 02:19
You should feel guilty for playing a xeno.. ;)

In all seriousness though; from taking a simple glance at your signature -- I reckon' the problem might be that you're simply better than anyone in your gaming group.

fluffstalker
12-11-2009, 03:35
Play shooty orks maybe? Fill your list to the brim with BS 2 goodness, artillery, wierdboyz and the like.

Or encourage your mates to play orks too. :D.

big squig
12-11-2009, 06:44
They're tough, but not over powered. Tell your opponent's to play better...unless of course your just playing Nob Biker spam...then you should feel bad.

totgeboren
12-11-2009, 21:25
I have sadly stopped using my orks for the same reasons as the op. Even when I use my over-tooled-up battlewagon, and lots of flash gits, and lots of grots, I tend to win landslide victories.

I just feel they make the games too predictable, and though my opponents are good sports, I noticed that they started enjoying the game less and less to the point where gaming started to die out.
The I switched to my IG (using the earlier codex), and everyone started playing again...

ard boy stu
12-11-2009, 21:53
yeah im having the same thing with my Ork army

Flypaper
14-11-2009, 01:40
You could always buy an opponent a couple of Land Raider Crusaders full of Assault Terminators for Christmas, I guess... :p

EmperorEternalXIX
14-11-2009, 04:16
At your points level you are going to dismantle any army. You are already outnumbering most MEQ armies at that points level 3-1, and your stuff is a lot more killy than the opposing force will be. Generally, it's a hard hitting army, and at that level, nothing's going to beat you. For what you described earlier for your first 500 points, in most marine armies, is less than 3 tactical squads and no HQ.

You could try fighting the Wolves, that ought to at least hurt like hell, hehe.