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View Full Version : Starting Warmaster, which army is good to start with?



StefDa
11-11-2009, 05:56
I am starting Warmaster from something like next month unless I suddenly get money.

I have had two games, done a lot of research and know a good deal about theoretic gameplay and so on.

I have played Chaos and Undead. Before I played Undead, I was dead sure pun intented) that I wanted them to be by army, but the fact that they can't move at all if not given an order... That kind of turns me off.

Chaos was fun, that's always a back-up since I've always loved Chaos dearly and I have tried starting a Fantasy Chaos army several times without luck.

Now, I only want to buy one army, so I want to make sure it's the right one!

I want an army which has a good mix of shooting and close combat. They should preferrably have both 'normal' units and rock-hard tough units (4+ hits!). They should ideally have access to Monsters. I can't be bothered with, for example, Orcs, with their command of 8. I just wouldn't be able to make it work for me.

Araby
Bretonnia
Chaos
Daemons
Dark Elves
Dwarfs
Empire
High Elves
Lizardmen
Orcs & Goblins
Skaven
Undead
Vampire Counts

The red ones are right out the window.
Now, what can you recommend? I can give a quick overview of why I like the above.

Chaos - They have everything I want! Except for shooting... They can make both large armies (Marauders, Harpies) and small elite ones (Warriors, Knights, etc.). The minus is, though, that they aren't anything out of the ordinary. Nothing about them says "YAY! PICK ME! ME! ME!" to me. I mean, sure the models are very nice and all, but... Can't really explain this one.
Daemons - These are nice, since I also used to play Daemons in Fantasy (trying to stop...). They don't have much variety, though, and no shooting. They're probably out too, but they have such nice models.
Dark Elves - They're on this list because they're deliciously evil and can both shoot and fight well in combat and are diverse.
Dwarves - I think Dwarves are awesome because I think it could be interesting to play the good guys for once. They are also very resilient, can shoot very well and can fight in close combat very well.
High Elves - Same deal as for the Stunties.
Lizardmen - Interesting army, cool models. Weird command system, which I find to be a turn-off for me. They do both have squishy shooty stuff (Skinks), good and resilient CC stuff (Saurus, Temple Guard) and Monsters (Kroxigor, Stegadon).
Skaven - These models are very nice and I like the feel of the army. They have all the advantages of the Lizardmen, plus they have all manners of weird contraptions.
Undead - I really, really like the look of this army. They have Skeletons, Sphinxes, Bone Giants, a Tomb King and all sorts of stuff! But the fact that they can't move unless given an order is a big turn-off for me... Maybe if they could move at Half Pace, but can't move at all? I don't get that one. They play nice overall anyway, though.

What would you suggest me to play? I will take anything into consideration :)

Thanks in advance!
Steffen.

azraelezekiel
11-11-2009, 08:24
First off, I always struggle with this question as when I started out I just bought the 2 cheapest armies I could get (Tomb Kings and High Elves). I love the high elves, but after 2 years of playing and no victories with the TK I almost sold them, then something clicked and I haven't lost since.
But I then ended up buying all but 3 of the core armies upto at least 3000 points each, plus some of the new ones as well.

That said I always recommend HE for new players for a few reasons.
Pick them up cheap off of eBay.
Very easy army to control and good combat units.
2nd to none shooting.

Don't forget that cavalry is king in this game.

You can download tiles for each of the armies to try out how each plays.
http://sites.google.com/site/wmplaytest/work-in-progress-1/publications

That way you can try each army out whilst not splashing out on the models.
On the point of undead, they do have their advantages: immune to terror and the dreaded raise dead spell.

Just my two penneth.

StefDa
13-11-2009, 09:14
First off, I always struggle with this question as when I started out I just bought the 2 cheapest armies I could get (Tomb Kings and High Elves). I love the high elves, but after 2 years of playing and no victories with the TK I almost sold them, then something clicked and I haven't lost since.
But I then ended up buying all but 3 of the core armies upto at least 3000 points each, plus some of the new ones as well.

That said I always recommend HE for new players for a few reasons.
Pick them up cheap off of eBay.
Very easy army to control and good combat units.
2nd to none shooting.

Don't forget that cavalry is king in this game.

You can download tiles for each of the armies to try out how each plays.
http://sites.google.com/site/wmplaytest/work-in-progress-1/publications

That way you can try each army out whilst not splashing out on the models.
On the point of undead, they do have their advantages: immune to terror and the dreaded raise dead spell.

Just my two penneth.


Thanks, it's now down to either High Elves or Undead.

How is it easiest to work around Undead's no move problem?

jchaos79
13-11-2009, 10:12
My suggetion is that you should go to the army you like most, more than thinking in the rules. Undeads have no initiative, yes... but they do not confuse, so they are really really hard to be back off by missile fire.

Playing skelleton is like playing chess, playing high elves is easier. (as Azrael says making some games with tiles is recomendable)

So if you are going to paint a large force then you should like it the most.

hope it helps

StefDa
18-11-2009, 00:34
I've more or less gone for the Undead. I can't help it but I do so love the idea and look of the army. But to me... Carrion seem worthless!? They can move 100 cm alright, but after that they're stuck without characters to move them around?

Lord_Goober
18-11-2009, 03:42
look at the rulebook for fliers. At the beginning of the turn they home back 1d6x10 cm towards a character. If you're talking about giving multiple orders, fliers don't usually get them. Fliers in Warmaster DO take some practice to learn how to use. I usually use my carrion as war machine hunters.

StefDa
20-11-2009, 16:30
But once they move their 100 cm, they can't move anymore because they are most likely out of range of characters. Can I choose to move them forward and end their movement in the back of a unit?

Cpt. Drill
22-11-2009, 23:28
I have really struggled to play an army without flyers, they are very very good. Carrion too!

Although they are not troops of the line, they wont take a cavelry charge and are unlikely to get big kills by themselves. They nhave alot of tactical use.

With undead you cn charge them into combat and then summon some skeletons into the fight aswell. This can be a great shock to people as suddenly they will have a few units fighting something that they otherwise were not expecting to see combat.

Flyers on your flank are always good as they can charge very deep into the middle of the board and flank enemy units that are moving through the centre.
If you combine this with a hero on a terror causing mount (zombie dragon) they become killers, your opponent will be getting about an attack per stand (due to flanking and terror) and you can run down units of knights with minimul loss.

if none of these options open themselves to you, just placing them behind a unit of knights or cavelry on your flank will cause annoyance for your foe. With the -1 for enemies within 20cm they will have to commit their general to ordering them if they want to make a sweeping decisive charge.


Dont forget that they can home back for free in your turn aswell. I do not have an undead army but I did run a VC army for a while and I always found space in each 1000pts of it to take some giant bats. Carrion are exactly the same, give them a whirl you will soon find that flying units have alot of uses!

TheNurglitch
02-12-2009, 12:51
I`d also go for High Elves - very good ld, powerful magic and shooting, a lot of cheap models in the market.

A good choice for a beginner.

StefDa
04-12-2009, 10:52
Just to let you knew, I went for Undead. I currently have a Sphinx, a Bone Giant, a pack of Characters, a Hero on Zombie Dragon, two Bone Throwers and a Skull Chukka, with more on the way.

TheNurglitch
05-12-2009, 19:45
A good decision, IMO a much better one than choosing Chaos which is an army rather difficult to play.
Skull Chukkas and Doom and Despair really make a difference.

Oh and remember that a terror brigade {ie liche priest on a zombie dragon and a unit of carrion} is one of the
deadliest forces in warmaster.

StefDa
06-12-2009, 13:05
I don't think Chaos is too difficult to play - I've played Warmaster three times (all with Chaos) and won them. Granted, we haven't played with any other victory condition than ''get in the other guy's face and break it". I've gleaned from this forum that you can win by "breaking" the other guy's army using break points. Anyone care to explain this? And what happens when you kill your enemy's general?

azraelezekiel
06-12-2009, 16:14
I've gleaned from this forum that you can win by "breaking" the other guy's army using break points. Anyone care to explain this? And what happens when you kill your enemy's general?

Have you read the rule book?
Both of these topics are covered in full ;)

StefDa
06-12-2009, 23:20
I have, but I didn't find it.

Cpt. Drill
07-12-2009, 04:50
Well you count up all your units. Then half that number and round up... thats your break point. So when you lose that many units your army is forced to withdraw due to losses. Note this is whole units. Many a time I have managed to prolong a battle by having a lone stand from a unit of ratswarms run away and hide deep behind my lines. In turn picking off these odd stands is the key to decsive victories.

Eg:
My skaven army consists of 33 units.
So my break point (33/2^) is 17
Meaning... At the end of the turn that I lost my 17th unit I am forced to withdraw and vicotry points are counted.

If a general is killed before this happens you end the turn and then count up victory points.

When I first started playing I saw alot of General casulties in games. Now it happens very very rarely. Be careful with your general, dont put him on the front line to often!

TheNurglitch
07-12-2009, 11:38
And that`s the point. Meaning if you have 12 units in a Chaos army (because you took some knights and warriors) you will have a break of 6. You lose 4 units of hounds, which you always take and always lose, and you are 2 units from beaking broken.
And believe me, chaos knights aren`t really worth those 200pts

StefDa
07-12-2009, 12:00
Well you count up all your units. Then half that number and round up... thats your break point. So when you lose that many units your army is forced to withdraw due to losses. Note this is whole units. Many a time I have managed to prolong a battle by having a lone stand from a unit of ratswarms run away and hide deep behind my lines. In turn picking off these odd stands is the key to decsive victories.

Eg:
My skaven army consists of 33 units.
So my break point (33/2^) is 17
Meaning... At the end of the turn that I lost my 17th unit I am forced to withdraw and vicotry points are counted.

If a general is killed before this happens you end the turn and then count up victory points.

When I first started playing I saw alot of General casulties in games. Now it happens very very rarely. Be careful with your general, dont put him on the front line to often!

What if you had 32 units and a break point of 16? Say you had 20 rat swarms and 12 units of Clanrats. You lose 16 Swarms early on. In the very same turn you lose the third base of the 16th unit, you lose? Or do you have to go under the break point? Just to totally clarify.


And that`s the point. Meaning if you have 12 units in a Chaos army (because you took some knights and warriors) you will have a break of 6. You lose 4 units of hounds, which you always take and always lose, and you are 2 units from beaking broken.
And believe me, chaos knights aren`t really worth those 200pts

Well, I believe Chaos Knights are very much worth it with the Banner of Shielding and a Hero, possibly with some sword. That's my (limited) experience, at least.

Cpt. Drill
07-12-2009, 21:54
It is worked out by counting the units you have lost, not how many are left on the board. So when I lose my 17th unit I lose the game. My chaos army has 15 units and has a break point of 8. When I lose my 8th unit I lose the game.

Note you still finish the turn, Many battles have been draws if the turn you lose you manage to kill the enemy general or break their army!









And that`s the point. Meaning if you have 12 units in a Chaos army (because you took some knights and warriors) you will have a break of 6. You lose 4 units of hounds, which you always take and always lose, and you are 2 units from beaking broken.
And believe me, chaos knights aren`t really worth those 200pts


Well, I believe Chaos Knights are very much worth it with the Banner of Shielding and a Hero, possibly with some sword. That's my (limited) experience, at least.

I disagree with both of you. I rarely field an army without two units of Chaos Knights These guys have bagged more kills than any other unit in my chaos army. Also the fear factor is great! In turn they are pricey and pumping more points into them gets dangerous. Never spend to many points on items where you could have more units.

TheNurglitch
08-12-2009, 17:01
Sure they are strong, and it is obvious that chaos players always or nearly always field them.
Still it doesn`t change the fact that they are too expensive. Two units of them are rarely worth 4 units of other cavalry.
Usually players sacrifice some of their cheaper units to get CK from the flank and from that position they are as vulnerable as any unit in warmaster.

Cpt. Drill
09-12-2009, 00:36
I dont think I would ever let my two units of knights go toe to toe against four units of empire knights. Maybe if I had a dragon.... and was charging? Against infantry formations or large monsters Chaos knights are really powerful. Also the four hits and 4+ save make them highly resiliant to an infantry countercharge.
Ideally you would be suiciding some chariots into the knight formations to try and cripple them. Or my favourite tactic for dealing with knights.... Ignore them, use your better stuff to squash their squidgy units. This plan can be helped with a combo of Harpies and ANGER OF THE GODS.

As for staying slightly on subject Chaos knights are prime examples of units that should flee if there is one stand left.As that lone stand is 100vp for your opponent.

TheNurglitch
10-12-2009, 12:09
This is a academic discussion, what you would like to see doesn`t often happen in a game where a dice thrower determines everything.
Anger of the gods? If you have the ring of magic. Boon of chaos is usually enough and is easier to cast.

Cpt. Drill
10-12-2009, 16:05
Anger of the gods to get the -1 command, if you can get harpies near bythe enemy unit you want to slow down then it means that they are making a -2 command to move. I never really use Boon of chaos, i prefer the gamble of Frenzy. Although it has backfired so many times....

TheNurglitch
10-12-2009, 18:28
I meant rage of chaos (+xd6) when I wrote AotG.
Anger of the gods is a good spell but throwing harpies away like that... I haven`t met that yet. Maybe it`s worth trying.
Still Doom and Despair is much better IMO.

Cpt. Drill
10-12-2009, 22:35
The harpies dont get thrown away they will survive if they are behind the knights. If the knights turn to try and chagre them it will be hard work and it means they are distracted for a few turns. If they ignore them then your harpies can just follow them around until they are needed.

Doom and dispair is a more precise spell as you can stop a specific unit. Anger of the gods although less reliable at stopping what you planned to from charging you, it effects multiple units and can potentially take characters out aswell (by causing them to fail commands).

StefDa
11-12-2009, 14:28
Does this look like a good 2.000 pts list?



Tomb King: 230 1
- Crown of Command

Liche Priest: 220 2
- Zombie Dragon, Ring of Magic

Liche Priest: 100 3
- Chariot

Liche Priest: 100 3
- Wand of Power

Liche Priest: 100 3
- Rod of Repetition

Characters total: 750

5x Skeletons: 150

3x Skeleton Bowmen: 105

3x Skeleton Cavalry: 180

2x Carrion: 130 4

1x Chariots: 110

Infantry/cavalry/chariots total: 675

2x Skull Chukka: 170 5

2x 2 Bone Throwers: 130 5

1x Sphinx: 150 6

1x Bone Giant: 125 6

Monsters and artillery total: 575

Grand total: 2.000


Now for thoughts and ideas behind the list:

1: I guess the Crown of Command is always useful, especially with the Undead, since they can't move on their own. Right?

2: I was told of the Terror Brigade in this thread, basically a Priest+Dragon flapping around with some Carrion, possible first turn charge if I feel like it, then summoning a group of Skeletons into the fight. For that reason I gave him the Ring of Magic, as I feel he will need it the most.

3: I read a battle report somewhere on the interweb about an Undead player facing off against an Orc player. The report was written by the latter, and he lost. He attributed this, among others, to the Undead player's use of plenty of characters. I thought it would be amusing to do the same, as I really love characters.

4: These are for the Terror Brigade. I think the original suggestion was using just one unit of Carrion, but I figured it would be better with two.

5: Artillery and lost of it, I like that.

6: I like artillery, but I love big monsters. I feel I've said enough!

I've build the army list around which models I have available right now (and which I'm waiting on), and it is for a relaxed newbie setting. Any comments?

Cpt. Drill
12-12-2009, 01:24
1: I wouldnt bother with the crown of command... Its very expensive. Dont worry about command problems, you ignore being close to the enemy which helps to make up for lack of iniative.

2: Be careful with a first turn charge with terror brigade. The wand of power on a lich... on a dragon is an awesome combo, but use it sneakily. Well just experiment with it, you will have alot of fun destroying almost any unit in the game with that combo.

3: Alot of characters is a good move with Undead... Simply enough

4: I really rate flyers, they are very very good. Super flexable too, Two units will be good.

5: I am not a big fan of bone throwers. They can be easily avoided or forced to waste shots on units they wont be able to do much to. The screaming skull catapults are awesome. I would not brigade them together though have one in each half of your army to cause maximum confusion.

6: The bone giant is a bit of a dud in my eyes. The sphinx is a good line breaker or support unit. The bone giant is too slow and will get left behind the army, maybe have him defending artillary if you 'have' to take him

7?: Maybe tone down magic items a little and try to get more chariots in there, your army is in need of some decisive units and chariots are those.

If I were to change things with your list i would drop the ballistas, some magic items and the bone giant. Then buy chariots!

azraelezekiel
12-12-2009, 11:05
Not enough chariots.
You need to max them out.

Ancre
13-12-2009, 12:44
Don't you need another skeleton bowmen unit to have a legit army ? I think you need two per 1.000 points, so 4 in a 2.000 army, and you only have 3.

StefDa
14-12-2009, 03:16
True that, Acne, I mean, Ancre ;)

Ancre
14-12-2009, 15:59
Acne, I mean, Ancre ;)

:confused:

On topic, maybe drop some of the cavalry to get them ? I would have told you to scrap the three items on your three last characters, but that still makes you 5 points short. Ah, maybe someone will be of more help in tweaking your list.

TheNurglitch
14-12-2009, 17:36
As someone earlier posted - I`d drop the Bone Giant - it`s just not worth the points.
I`d also drop the Crown of Command and took the Orb of Majesty instead.
The rest of the points I`d spend on additional skeletons and chariots.

StefDa
14-12-2009, 22:04
:confused:

On topic, maybe drop some of the cavalry to get them ? I would have told you to scrap the three items on your three last characters, but that still makes you 5 points short. Ah, maybe someone will be of more help in tweaking your list.

Sorry, bad joke. When I first saw your name I was like ":wtf: why'd he want to be called Acne?" until I read your name more closely later...


As someone earlier posted - I`d drop the Bone Giant - it`s just not worth the points.
I`d also drop the Crown of Command and took the Orb of Majesty instead.
The rest of the points I`d spend on additional skeletons and chariots.

The Bone Giant was kinda what got me into Undead, and I own one, so I would be hard pressed removing it. I do see where you are coming from, though. The -1 Command thing is a bad one.

Ancre
15-12-2009, 11:35
Sorry, bad joke. When I first saw your name I was like ":wtf: why'd he want to be called Acne?" until I read your name more closely later...

:p lol ok, my nickname just means "Anchor' in french.

StefDa
17-12-2009, 20:27
Aww, the symbol of hope :)

I'd shamelessly advertise my new log!! http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235708

StefDa
26-11-2010, 09:20
I hope to revitalize my log tomorror, in case anyone wants to know.

StefDa
01-12-2010, 10:26
Okay, so I didn't get to revitalize my log since my place is so messy I can't even get to my desk, let alone clear it to make room for my paint station...! :D

Ancre
01-12-2010, 16:49
Boo ! I was waiting for that :)

StefDa
02-12-2010, 09:27
For the log or for me cleaning my place? I hope the latter since that *might* make me actually do it, but I think Assassin's Creed Brotherhood and Transformers War for Cybertron will just get in the way (yet again).

That aside, I texted my buddy Kenni earlier to hear if he has any plans tonight. If he is available I will probably sit down with him and paint for a few hours with some quality rock and metal music, that should give my Undead a good kick in the butt.