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imthedci
17-05-2005, 15:36
Don't thank me - none of these rumors are mine. They're all scavaged from Dakka and Portent (among others). Thanks to eveyone who put a rumor out there for me to grab. And, of course, feel free to correct anything that you know to be false or verify anything you know to be true.

Army Special Rules
There is no ranged negative modifier for moving and shooting.
They'll lose no -1 at long range but get no -1 for moving and will get bonuses for closer range (unspecified) the idea is to get WE to perform more hit and run rather than standing on the opposite table edge and shooting.
-1 to hit at long range is confirmed, as is no move or fire penalty. He is aware that WE can be frustrating to fight against and he plans to lessen this by making it more attractive for WE players to "move closer".
All Forest Spirit models (dryads, dryad characters, tree-kin, etc.)- 5+ daemonic ward, fear. Elf characters can't join.
retain the movement through woods rule.
You still get a free Woods in Pitched Battles.


WE Magic Lore
very defensive, one of the spells will double US.
1. Tree singing: move wood/d6 s5 in wood.
2. Magic missile 6+, s4 (or s5 if near wood)
3. regenerate on caster/unit
4. Unit can't be harm by non-magic shooting
5. Dunno, can't remember.
6. Analog of Orcs 6th spell from little waaagh!


Magic Items and Abilities
------------------------------------
Lethal shot: waywatchers and heroes with this ability have KB with non-magic arrows. (at short range only)
Heroes can be upgraded by the Court theme. Wardancers ability, waywatchers ability, white stags. unicorns only allowed for specific Court.
The most expensive sprite: 50 points, model causes terror
you can give your units little tinker bells (sprites)... that work like (chaos) marks on a unit!
No more hunting spear. A lot of strange wards (such as 4+ if within 6" of wood), arrows, bad magic weapons (new spirit sword working as Mind War except both ways).


Lords
----------
WE Lord

WE Mage Lord - Arch mage know beast/life/Athel Loren lore

Wardancer Lord
http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/43382266.jpg

They apparently sculpted a ton of Wood Elf character models. 4 mages and 4 combat characters according to Phil.

The wood Elf characters (the exception being the Wardancer), comes with a bow as standard, which means they will benefit from the Archers special rules for no extra points (if they get any special rules that is), plus they can then buy the special arrows without having to buy a bow as well

Treeman Lord, 7"-9" tall model (SWEET!!!) definitely going to be taller and bulkier than the Treebeard model. Treeman lord can cast 2 tree singing as bounds. Ld 9

Dryad character



Heroes
------------
WE Hero

WE Mage Hero
http://home.tiscali.nl/depunt/pics/we_mage.jpg

Waywatcher

Branchweaver (dryad hero) - dryad hero at 65 could be level 1 mage for +50 pts, iirc.
http://www.chaos-ascendant.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=54

Treemen character (Ancient)


Core
---------
Glade Riders are in the book, but they ride horses. 8 per box. Glade Riders will be the only cavalry. Glade Riders will have a heavier option. 26 per model, 5+ armor, fear (at charge)+some special rules. wild riders = glade riders + 4S + spec.rules Wild riders have no better 4+ armor (i just can't remember, but seems that woody now have no shields at all), S4+spear, but a lot of special rules.
http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/43382246.jpg

Archers and Glade Guard come in one plastic box. It has been said that the Wood Elf plastic box is the most detailed kit GW has made yet, and all of the poses will be very dynamic (kneeling archers etc) since WE skirmish. There will be foliage and scrubs and whatnot in the box.
I believe Archers have S4 in short range, and skirmish. It could also be just armor piercing though. Graham McNeill said that the designers have decided the issue, but he couldn't remember whether they went with S4 at close range or just armor piercing. A rumor has also been circling that they just might have given all Archers killing blow at short range, instead of either of the previous. Archers - Killing blow at short range, lack 36" range. Glade guardians: 1:1 ratio, no less Glade guards have only LB. So, 10+ for 12 points rank-and-file no-armor archer seems to me as pointsink. Archers must come in units of 10 now. They now have the -1 penalty to fire at long range. They lose the -1 penalty for moving and shooting. Their bows count as Str 4 in short range. You get options to make some of the units skirmishers ( there are no more WE Scouts).

Wardancers Ė core, plastic, dynamic poses!! as earlier, no more unbreakable dance but 4+ ward dance. +1S on charge. No Std. Bearer or Musician. Wardancers have new dances and IMHO are totally nerfed. I can't remember all of the dances, but you get one that gives Killing Blow, One that grants a 4 up Ward save, one that allows them an extra attack....They also gain +1 Str when they charge. What do they lose? The dance that takes away rank bonuses, and they lose the ability to become Unbreakable

imthedci
17-05-2005, 15:36
Special
-----------
Tree-kin Ė Ogre-Sized Treemen. M=5 T=5 S=5 I=2 AS=4+ 3-12 per unit
http://www.chaos-ascendant.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=53

Forest Swarm (i.e. swarm of sprites)

Waywatchers Ė They have Killing Blow with bows (at short range). -1 to hit (them) with shooting,
scouts, skirmish, could deploy as earlier. no more LOS 4" in woods. 24 per model. could use the Chameleon skink deployment. Waywatchers can deploy within 12 inches but out of sight of the enemy or over 12 inches from an enemy and in Line of Sight. They also gain Lethal Blow with their arrows. The WW champion only has a BS of 4 now.

Warhawk Riders - Warhawks look more like huge pigeons, riders are actually Warhawk surfers... plastic hawks, riders metal. getting "Hit and Run".

Dryads are seriously nerfed, as they are the main core choice for the forest spirits army. I'm talking about S3 T4 and a 5+ ward save, and no skirmish, and no aspects. Not sure this has been indicated before but Dryads apparently will still have a 5+ armor save in addition to the 5+ ward they now will get. Phil described them as scary hags, not quite what I was hoping for but who knows what they will actually look like.
Dryads: pretty much what we've heard, plastic, more female like, not as hard hitting, core if you choose the all spirit army for sure, not so sure if you want to build the spirit-elf mixed army.
No Standard Bearer or Musician. 12 pts. per model.
Count as Core choice if army (contains/is led by??) Forest Spirit character
http://www.pbase.com/brimstone/image/43382256.jpg




Rare
---------
Treeman - 'about the size of a Shaggoth'. No more special attack. Treeman lose 1M, spec. attack, Unbreakable if no wound, but get 5+ daemonic ward and stubborn. 325 points+2 bounds+100 points sprites+shooting attack. Seems fair. More universal Lord choice.


The Eternal Guard is a rare choice unit, to match the Black and Phoenix Guard. The statline is the usual one, and they are armed with heavy armor, shield and 'staffsword'. The staffsword can be used as two hand weapons, a hand weapon, or a spear, and the first and the second rank don't have to use it in the same way. So you can get 3+ armor save for the unit and still hit with spears from the second rank, and according to a rumor you can switch styles between rounds. Sounds cool and all, but I'm expecting them to cost 15 or 16 points, which makes them still incredibly hard to use. 12 points, 5+ armor, 2 weapon + second rank with spears. Eternal Guard fight with either spear staves or spear and shield, but always gets a +5 Armor Save. Their weapons count as being two handed, whatever that means.


Special Characters
The three special characters in the book are apparently Orion, the twin sisters that share the same soul, and Durthu.
The Green Dragon doesn't get a new model, but two new riders

Orion is returning, but Ariel is not, hehe, as far as I can remember a direct quote was "she was always very lovely and into healing etc, she doesn't really fit into the new wood elf picture of violent death".



Misc.
------------
Army book will be 80p. strong. 2 armies: WE and Forest spirits, can be mixed.

UK WE release in JULY
NA WE release in AUGUST

I had also heard the rumors of darker fluff, which I also find very promising. However, I was trying to keep my list to fluff that is already definitively part of the army, rather then potential future fluff.
Then again, this is wood elf rumors. So the rumors I have heard about wood elf fluff will be that there is a dangerous forest spirit/god, something of a dark heart of the wood that the wood elves serve while simultaneously holding it in check with the waystones.
Orion and Ariel will be elves who sold their souls to this being, rather then avatars of Kurneous and Isha, which is pretty much fine by me, as the roll of mortal representative of Isha was already filled.
Overall this will give wood elves a dark, dangerous feel, taking them out of the "good guys" category and putting them into the "neutral" category. Matching this change in fluff tone will be a grim, savage look to the new models.
At least that's the rumor. I like it, though I'm not sure exactly how reliable it is.

You will be able to field an all Wood Elf or all Athel Loren army or a mixture of the two. The WE are not good or bad more akin to a force of nature like the sea. They consider the current army is not very fun to play against and wish to introduce more elements designed to be in HTH to counter this

Anthony Reynolds, who is writing the (Wood Elf) Army Book

There will be three types of army you can choose - Shooty skirmishing (I guess like now), more meaty HTH army or wood spirit army (no elves at all)

Larger minimum size of units.

GAW 67-38 Warhammer Fantasy Battle: Wood Elf Army Set $215.00
GAW 92-01 Warhammer Fantasy Battle: Wood Elves $20.00
GAW 92-05 Warhammer Fantasy Battle: Wood Elf Glade Guard $35.00
GAW 92-06 Warhammer Fantasy Battle: Wood Elf Dryads $35.00
GAW 92-09 Warhammer Fantasy Battle: Wood Elf Battalion $115.00
GAW 92-36 Warhammer Fantasy Battle: Mounted Wood Elf Lord $15.00
GAW 92-39 Warhammer Fantasy Battle: Wood Elf Waywatchers $15.00
GAW 92-44 Warhammer Fantasy Battle: Wood Elf Tree Kin $15.00
GAW 92-45 Warhammer Fantasy Battle: Wood Elf Dryad Champion $10.00
GAW 92-61 Warhammer Fantasy Battle: Wood Elf Waywatcher Lord $10.00

Wood Elf army box set will contain:
32 Glade Guard (Plastic)
16 Dryads (Plastic)
8 Glade Riders (Plastic)
3 Warhawk Riders
6 Wardancers
Hero
Mage
Limited Edition Battle Standard Bearer
Army Book
Apparently £150 and released in Jul in the UK.

Drognan
17-05-2005, 17:53
Thanks for the recopilation of info, I can't wait for the release.

EvC
17-05-2005, 18:17
Yeah, handy. 80p for the army book though? Nice ;)

tzeentchgiant
17-05-2005, 18:35
I don't think you're allowed to post scanned images, so maybe taking down the female mage pic would be a good idea.

Cheers for the roundup

TG

Drabant
17-05-2005, 21:24
GAW 67-38 Warhammer Fantasy Battle: Wood Elf Army Set $215.00
GAW 92-09 Warhammer Fantasy Battle: Wood Elf Battalion $115.00


Apparently £150 and released in Jul in the UK.

Now, this is the interesting part. Since the army deal is $215, it could hardly be £150. What has been the price of previous army deals in the US?

boogle
17-05-2005, 22:29
i have a feeling that it wiil be £135

fracas
18-05-2005, 01:36
good info
a friend and i are talking starting wood elf to consolidate our tactical discussion.

much thanks.

Brandir
18-05-2005, 09:11
I am surprised that there is no Treeman in the army deal box set. But perhaps GW will put some trees in there?

Drognan
18-05-2005, 11:31
Now, this is the interesting part. Since the army deal is $215, it could hardly be £150. What has been the price of previous army deals in the US?

It has been between $215 and $235 IIRC

Brandir
18-05-2005, 11:38
Now, this is the interesting part. Since the army deal is $215, it could hardly be £150. What has been the price of previous army deals in the US?

But GW don't always use the present exchange rate to set world-wide prices:

Battle for Macragge
UK: £40
US: $45 (but at present exchange rate of £1 = $1.8 should be $73.30)

At today's exchange rate £150 = $275 approx

Mr. Fancypants
20-05-2005, 06:32
It may be still too early to say, but it looks like many will be re-evaluating their opinion of Gary Morley. I mean, I don't know what he's done in this range, but it looks like he won't be so undeservedly hated.

portentjunkie
20-05-2005, 06:58
It may be still too early to say, but it looks like many will be re-evaluating their opinion of Gary Morley. I mean, I don't know what he's done in this range, but it looks like he won't be so undeservedly hated.

Hold off on that thought until we actually get closeups of those wardancers. :evilgrin:

Tastyfish
20-05-2005, 11:53
Seems odd that dryads don't skirmish yet are skirmishing in the sneak peel. Also, I don't think they look the nost rank friendly of models or are they just very well done?

Zeb
20-05-2005, 12:57
The Army Box will be cheaper (1700 SKr.) then the last ones and it's called an army box now, not an army deal.

athamas
20-05-2005, 13:11
hmm from the looks of these rules i think i might be doing a tree spirit army, as the models will be plastic, and look darn good

do we have any info on spirt mages/lords?

Griefbringer
20-05-2005, 13:28
It may be still too early to say, but it looks like many will be re-evaluating their opinion of Gary Morley. I mean, I don't know what he's done in this range, but it looks like he won't be so undeservedly hated.

I don't think Nagash will be forgotten that easily (though good paint job helps that model a lot).

gortexgunnerson
20-05-2005, 14:57
6th Edition was hearlded as a simplifiation of the increasing special rules for every race so they were going to use the same sort of rules for everyone such as magic resistance and killer blow etc however each of the new armies comes out has even more special rules then 5th Edition armies.

I think this is going the total wrong dircetion and will lead to more confusion, I blew a key GT final match after not fully remebering a new Storm of choas special rule properly and wasn't a happy bunny lol. I think increased special rules remove the skill and create armies that will beat other collection of special rules and lose to armies with other special rules sets. GW needs to find a way of differentiating armies through stats not special rules, they started this with the T3 for Elves rule etc but recent armies and especially the campaign armies are just lists of special rules.

thanquol
27-05-2005, 16:38
I really think the new WE rules are better, except for the -1 modifier on long range, that has returned

Xxcha
27-05-2005, 17:06
I think that the new "no penalty for moving and shooting" is mutch better than the old"no penalty to long range" as it enables differrent tactics that weren't possible befor. It will also stop the majority of people who used to complain about the army from doing so.

Crube
27-05-2005, 19:07
Just been to my local GW (in my lunch hour) and spoke to a guy about the deal. He let me have a look at the Staff preorder form (they can get it from Mid June....) The staff price is £65. When I was at GW (1994-1999 + 2002) Staff discount was 50% on box sets - this would make it say £130 - £135...???

Crube
27-05-2005, 19:08
OH and BTW, thanks for the compilation - just the one thread to drool incessantly over...

Xxcha
27-05-2005, 21:31
£130-£135 would make more sense as adding up what we believe to be in the box it is no way near £150.

Zeb
27-05-2005, 21:41
The box will cost 1700 SKr, what that is in differnt curencys yuo'll have to calculate yourselfs. How I know this? Well, I just preorderd mine from my retailer...!

Malachi
28-05-2005, 02:42
Hold off on that thought until we actually get closeups of those wardancers. :evilgrin:

I couldn't agree more, the wardancers are really worrying me. In that sneak peak shot of the dancers there were some woeful looking models... like, the worst unit models made in years. Obviously we should hold off judgement until we get decent pics of them, but there were dancers in that pic that looked like pre-5th eddition models, with crappy, unrealistic poses and weapons held too close to the body. If they turn out to be as bad as they seem to be, it'd would be a real shame given that the wardancers are one of the units in the most need of updated models.

And don't get me started on the war-pigeons.

Frankly
28-05-2005, 03:59
Has anyone seen the WE cavalry sprues up close?

I think the models are wonderful.

NakedFisherman
28-05-2005, 06:49
6th Edition was hearlded as a simplifiation of the increasing special rules for every race so they were going to use the same sort of rules for everyone such as magic resistance and killer blow etc however each of the new armies comes out has even more special rules then 5th Edition armies.

I think this is going the total wrong dircetion and will lead to more confusion, I blew a key GT final match after not fully remebering a new Storm of choas special rule properly and wasn't a happy bunny lol. I think increased special rules remove the skill and create armies that will beat other collection of special rules and lose to armies with other special rules sets. GW needs to find a way of differentiating armies through stats not special rules, they started this with the T3 for Elves rule etc but recent armies and especially the campaign armies are just lists of special rules.

I was about to post this myself.

Army special rules are great and all, but change the statline before you add special rules and other garbage. I normally don't comment on particular members of the GW Studio, but Anthony Reynolds' take on Bretonnians left us with an uncharacterful army of special rules and crutches.

Let's hope Wood Elves aren't the same way.

Crube
28-05-2005, 09:11
The box will cost 1700 SKr, what that is in differnt curencys yuo'll have to calculate yourselfs. How I know this? Well, I just preorderd mine from my retailer...!

This'll be £130 (give or take...)

Galonthar
28-05-2005, 09:24
Army special rules are great and all, but change the statline before you add special rules and other garbage. I normally don't comment on particular members of the GW Studio, but Anthony Reynolds' take on Bretonnians left us with an uncharacterful army of special rules and crutches.

Let's hope Wood Elves aren't the same way.


hmm.. I have to agree with that, for what difference in troops is it those brets. have?; kinghts, knights,... and oh yes, I allmost forgot,.. KNIGHTS!! :skull:

and its only the special rules that make the difference

Snoozer
28-05-2005, 11:32
I think I have to start a tree spirit army now..... Damn you, damn you all...

the dryads are NOT skirmishers?? :wtf:

Il Magno
29-05-2005, 00:38
Dryads ARE skirmisher!!!!!!!!! this is sure! true 100%!! ;)

Il Magno
29-05-2005, 00:44
And the third special character it is NOT Durthu but Dricha a driad that is the oldest of the dryads; she is nervous becasuse thinny ears guys had gone to live in the forest whithout her permission.
She dislike every human thing thst enter in "her" woods ;)

Galonthar
29-05-2005, 11:15
Dryads ARE skirmisher!!!!!!!!! this is sure! true 100%!! ;)

how come you are soo sure?, and....

WHOOHOO; core, T4 (?), skirmishers!!! :chrome:


And the third special character it is NOT Durthu but Dricha a driad that is the oldest of the dryads; she is nervous becasuse thinny ears guys had gone to live in the forest whithout her permission.
She dislike every human thing thst enter in "her" woods


coooooooool....... A humie hater,.....I hate humies too!!! :skull: :skull:

what sort of unit will she be?,.. spellcaster,.. or "warrior" ??
(talking about spelcasters,... what spelcaster special char. will we get?)

Il Magno
29-05-2005, 13:33
I get the possibilities to look at a photocopied WE army book, during the campaign week end held in my town.
Driads are skirmishers at 12 points for model. This is sure.
Dricha is a driad (you get it also in the 5Th edition army book), and I do not know any thing else on her.
I can remember three special characters and they are: Orion, Dricha, and the twin sisters (theyr nick name in Italy is "Paola & Chiara"), but this does not mean that others special characters (that I could have not see) may be included in the book.

Xxcha
29-05-2005, 18:37
An 8 point decrease would seem a fair comprimise for losing their aspects, as long as they kept the same stats and gained this supposed ward save that has been rumored and then confired in the case of the tree-kin.

thrawn
29-05-2005, 21:58
thanks for the roundup. looking good, may have to start yet another army . . .

adreal
30-05-2005, 08:25
I'm personally really disapointed that Durthru has been axed, I loved him in the old days (:sigh:). Still With the tree-kin plus the tree-men I think I'll live, plus I can always order the archive model

Keravin
30-05-2005, 11:54
There's always the possibility we'll get Durthu rules on the website - like they have been doing with the High Elf heroes.

Tancred II von Quenelles
30-05-2005, 12:24
I'm personally really disapointed that Durthru has been axed, I loved him in the old days (:sigh:). Still With the tree-kin plus the tree-men I think I'll live, plus I can always order the archive model

New Ancient Treeman heroe has charakteristics and rules wery similiar to Durthu s. He can also purchase sprites. Do not dissappoint. The bad side is that GW fordot to re-relasse some old sp. chars for other races and brets got only Tristran re-released :o

Puppyblue
30-05-2005, 13:32
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the "wardancer lord" on the first page actually a waywatcher lord? It even says underneath the picture tht wardancer lords don't have bows.

tzeentchgiant
30-05-2005, 14:56
I heard about stags in the new WE range, what are they/will they be, or do they even exist or are they just a figment of my imagination?

TG

Xxcha
30-05-2005, 17:47
I've got a feeling that they are going to be like tuskgors in that they will get +2 S on the charge, but will have more wounds thus becoming a monstrous mount only avaliable to heroes and lords.

Lux
30-05-2005, 19:56
I've some questions to the dryads:

at first of all, are they core or is it depending on the General?(only core if a treeman is general, otherwise special)
the next thing is; how much Dryads have to be in a unit? 5+, 8+ or even 10+?

thank you,

greetings Lux

And sorry for my English, isn't the best... :rolleyes:

Brandir
30-05-2005, 20:00
I though that Dryads were core irrespective of the type of General.

Lux
30-05-2005, 20:17
if you're right, it would be very nice.

a coreunit for 12points with T4 and a 5save and skirmish. Sounds very fine.

fracas
30-05-2005, 22:58
sounds nearly unbelievable actually

Scactha
31-05-2005, 09:27
A T4 Sv5+ Skirmisher core unit already exists. Just that it costs only 7 points.

Remember Gor with hw/shield...?

5 points for a wardsave sounds alot comparing. But I guess they are demonic and thus Immune to Psychology too.

Odin
31-05-2005, 09:31
5 points for a wardsave sounds alot comparing. But I guess they are demonic and thus Immune to Psychology too.

I suspect the Dryads must have 2 attacks as well. And no-one yet seems to be able to confirm whether they are S3 or S4 - there are a lot of conflicting rumours.

therisnosaurus
31-05-2005, 11:21
according to the best sources dryad's statlines are identical to the old ones, they are skirmishers, have no aspects and cost 12ppm

BlackRose
31-05-2005, 11:46
And no-one yet seems to be able to confirm whether they are S3 or S4
They'll have S3 ...


Remember Gor with hw/shield...?
But the Dryads have a 5+ armour Save AND a 5+ ward save ... they also cause fear and probably are Immun to psychologie, but would that really be an advantage ??? ...

Galonthar
31-05-2005, 11:47
according to the best sources dryad's statlines are identical to the old ones, they are skirmishers, have no aspects and cost 12ppm

I haven`t got my book in reach atm., could sb plz tell me how those stats were?
I seem to remember that they were quite powerfull,... even without their aspects,... and you people really say THEY WILL BE CORE!?! :wtf: ?!?!

seems impossible to me acatually ...:S

Puppyblue
31-05-2005, 13:26
They'll have S3 ...


But the Dryads have a 5+ armour Save AND a 5+ ward save ... they also cause fear and probably are Immun to psychologie, but would that really be an advantage ??? ...
From what I have seen they have S4 as they do now. And their stats are generally better then gors as well as having the daemonic special rule (Actually, its the forest spirit special rule but it does the same thing)

Snoozer
31-05-2005, 15:25
So what is exactly in a tree spirit army (thinking of starting one)

the tree kin, Dryards and treemen (and swarms of course), but is there anything else??

Maybe hawk's without riders or any animal's at all??

Lux
31-05-2005, 15:28
what makes you so shure Dryads "only" having S3, BlackRose?


From what I have seen they have S4 as they do now

Have you seen the book? or just seen rumors?


So what is exactly in a tree spirit army (thinking of starting one)

Someone her in the forum who had a look at the book explained the wild hunt (the expensive kav.) are spirits, he told us, they've the 5+Ward Save and fear in attack... just loock in on eof the othe rwood elves themes.

Brandir
31-05-2005, 15:44
I haven`t got my book in reach atm., could sb plz tell me how those stats were?


Please don't ask people to breach copyright here on Portent.

For the stats look at:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/woodelves/list/1/

Hope this helps.

Puppyblue
01-06-2005, 13:19
Lux: IIRC the "forest spirit" rule is similar to the "daemonic" special rule except without instability.
And I've seen a prelimenary refrence sheet for the WE army book.

Snoozer: Sorry, but it looks like there won't be tree spirit swarms. But as wild riders have the "forest spirit" rule u could include them into ur army without compromising the theme.

Kroq
01-06-2005, 16:36
I'm a little confused . Are they saying we can't post ANY stats that we may hear of as a rumor ? I mean just because someone says they have seen an official book or list doesn't mean it is official , if you get my meaning.

Like if I say I've heard that the new upcoming [ insert name ] unit will have a toughness of 6 , is that against the rules or if I say I saw an advanced copy of [insert name ] army book and [ insert name ] unit has a toughness of 6. meaning until it is released how do we know if i could be wrong or lying or etc.......

Any official clarification

Brandir
01-06-2005, 16:47
I think that quoting the odd stat here and there is OK (such as Treekin will have a Toughness of 42). However quoting the entire stat line is a breach of GW's copyright (eg I have the book in front of me and the Treekin has the following stats M99 WS99 BS99 S99 T99 I99 A99 W99 Ld(( at 1 point each).

Kroq
01-06-2005, 21:07
Oh , I agree but what I was meaning is since it isn't out yet how do you know if it is official and a copywright. Like I could say I have a super secret advance copy of the FISHMEN army book.And it had a.......
Giant Walking Catfish with a howda on its back
M WS BS S T W A I Ld
8 4 3 4 6 4 3 2 5

Whisker shot range 24" St 5

howda carries 8 elite guppies armed with caviar slingshots range 12 " St 3


Doesn't mean it's true [ though I kinda wish it was ] :D

Brandir
01-06-2005, 21:29
And GW always denied that they would be releasing a Fishmen army.

Lord Setra
01-06-2005, 21:37
Lol fishmen, the bane of fantasy seminars.

Well wood elves will be out soon and then we can all look lovingly at our books and know that we all know the proper stats.

Karlon
02-06-2005, 01:08
Surely you cant own the copyright to something that isnt out yet.

Anything posted here is just rumour and speculation, and seeing as the rules arent available to people, GW surely cant claim they are violating anything. I guess if people put "Allegedly" before any stats they post..... heh.

Frankly
02-06-2005, 02:44
Oh , I agree but what I was meaning is since it isn't out yet how do you know if it is official and a copywright. Like I could say I have a super secret advance copy of the FISHMEN army book.And it had a.......
Giant Walking Catfish with a howda on its back
M WS BS S T W A I Ld
8 4 3 4 6 4 3 2 5

Whisker shot range 24" St 5

howda carries 8 elite guppies armed with caviar slingshots range 12 " St 3


Doesn't mean it's true [ though I kinda wish it was ] :D

Are they the skirmishing unit of Catfish or rank and file.

Brandir
02-06-2005, 07:53
Surely you cant own the copyright to something that isnt out yet....

You can. The copyright law is very complicated but, essentially, once you have written it the piece becomes copyright whether published or not.

Tancred II von Quenelles
02-06-2005, 08:29
The royal standard of Ariel is X pts and works as Banner of Athel Loren
It seems ma, though I did not read the fluff, but from names and descriptions of magic items, Orion is still awatar of Kurnous, as he was before, but not an ewil forestspirit(but who said that Kurnous has not an evil aspect? :D )
Hail of doom arrow is Y pts

Tancred II von Quenelles
02-06-2005, 08:30
Shield of Ptolos is gone.

Tancred II von Quenelles
02-06-2005, 08:41
After hawing seweral playtests, it seems that the only way to play the new we is by such a roster

Archmage in a unit of 9 dancers
bsb with 50 pts reg Larmour in otrer dancers
Glamourweawe mage inWlldriders
dryad heroe in a unit of 8 dryads
2 other units of 8 dryads
2treemen

points are over :D
Imho the new WE are not a strong army - it has only 3-4 units worth their poionts - dryads, dancers, wildriders and treemen (so forgetvwaywatchers and greateagle).
Though I ll buy all elwes I can use as High or Dark elwes in my collection (I think not wildriders and warhafkrider models, as on pictures they wear skins with horns on their heads, and part of dancers looks toowild to beredone in H or delves).

Tancred II von Quenelles
02-06-2005, 08:54
Spiritsword is on. (removed)

Brandir
02-06-2005, 09:14
Tancred, you are doing it again. DO NOT POST COPYRIGHTED RULES.

Pertinax
02-06-2005, 09:27
Tancred. You were asked not to post rules and points costs that are inviolation with both the Intellectual Property rules of GW, and the forums guidelines that we have here.

I am removing the points/stats etc from your posts.

I know you have contacted us about this, but I do not recall giving you any further go ahead on your plans.

Please do not post this sort of thing again.

This is your final warning. Next time it will be a strike for the said offences.

Pertinax - Forum Administration.

Tancred II von Quenelles
02-06-2005, 09:42
Ok. How can I post news and what kind of them can I post. For example I want to post ninjaturtle army artefact banespear which giwes +5str to its bearer and costs 5 points. How and what can i write not to get in trouble myself and not to create troubles for portent?
Tell me pls. on this hypotetic ninjaturtle army example, so that all is legal and under control. Sorry to wrongpost again.

Pertinax
02-06-2005, 10:12
We are not permitted to reproduce rules that are copyrighted by the company that is producing them. We can not reproduce rules like:
High Elf Jive King (69 Pts). 5/5/5/3/4/2/7/2/10. [Special rules here]
As soon as a stat or points cost is allocated to the thing in question, then we start to tread on thin ice.
It is often best to leave off the points costs and the stats.

In example to your banner, I would word it like:
They get access to the artefact "banespear". It give a big strength bonus to the person carrying it, and doesn't cost much.

Remember that as soon as you post points and stats, you are effectively distributing the publication in question into the public realm, thus allowing people to freely use it, and violating the copyright.

I hope that was clear.

Tancred II von Quenelles
02-06-2005, 10:37
So, I can t explain the rules,such as +5 str, but must say "get a great Str bonus"?
All other understood. I think Sylass posts all spites and kindreds this way, after 9th I come back and do the same with artefacts. Sorry for bothering administration and Inquisition. Now I ll do all correct.

Pertinax
02-06-2005, 10:39
OK, +5ST is probably ok. But do try to "abstract" the variables where possible.

Tancred II von Quenelles
02-06-2005, 10:42
Thanks :) I ll be good ;)

risK
02-06-2005, 11:04
There won't be anything wron in telling more about the spirit sword like:
Spiritsword is still on, but slightly different. After a wound is inflicted both player roll a dice and ad a stat to it to see who (bearer or victim) gets additional wounds... or something like that.

GW is only after postings who make the buy of the armybook obsolete. So if the posted rules just show the functionality, without the correct use of such rules, there wont be a problem.

my 2 cents

thanquol
02-06-2005, 13:25
about the new army boxed set...
There is a whole thread about that!

Kroq
02-06-2005, 20:13
Wait , wait how about......

M - ourftay WS - iveftay BS - hreettay S - ourftay T - ixstay etc.............

Would that work ? :D

Crube
02-06-2005, 20:21
eh???





Oooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I get it.....

LaughinGremlin
02-06-2005, 22:31
Does anyone speak Navajo? The Japanese never broke that code.


Wait, I don't, so nevermind.

or... ...we can make our own Portent language!
** = 1
*** = 2
^^ = movement
@ = attacks
{ = (insert subject) got a big mouth.
etc.

I'm not serious of course. What I'm serious about is SEEING the new TREEMAN!!! Someone show me it in all of its stranglerooty-goodness! Has anyone heard if it will actually have BRANCHES (and foliage) this time?

Crube
02-06-2005, 22:37
Does anyone speak Navajo? The Japanese never broke that code.


Wait, I don't, so nevermind.

or... ...we can make our own Portent language!
** = 1
*** = 2
^^ = movement
@ = attacks
{ = (insert subject) got a big mouth.
etc.



I refer the honorable gentleman to the answer i gave earlier...

Brandir
02-06-2005, 22:42
Being a cheapskate I will be using my Treebeard and Gwahir models!

Puppyblue
03-06-2005, 09:08
For the copyright thing: Use it in comparison to another item everyone knows. Using the turtle banner as an example I would say "I would give my hero the banner instead of a great weapon. Its only a point more expensive but has +3S over a GW."

Back on to the woodelves. Does anyone have any rumours on what the non-forest spirit magical items will be?

warsmith
03-06-2005, 20:14
just want to know is that brachwraith( dry hero? ) can be a LV1 mage for X pts?
so, can he get dispell scroll?

Regards
Thomas

Xxcha
03-06-2005, 20:25
I would of thought so because when you upgrade chaos characters to have the mark of Tzeentch they have access to arcane items. On the other hand, maybe tree spirits can only buy sprites with their magic allowence. In which case there might be a sprite which acts in the same way as a dispell scroll?

warsmith
03-06-2005, 20:27
one more stupid question is a wild hunt have 6+ ward save itself or 5+ save for daemonic ward, pls help =.="

Tancred II von Quenelles
05-06-2005, 16:45
one more stupid question is a wild hunt have 6+ ward save itself or 5+ save for daemonic ward, pls help =.="
both - demonic against non-magical, '6+ward against magical

Galonthar
05-06-2005, 16:51
both - demonic against non-magical, '6+ward against magical


6+ against magical,.... is that spells,.. or also magic weapons??

Tadite
05-06-2005, 17:45
Tancred. You were asked not to post rules and points costs that are inviolation with both the Intellectual Property rules of GW, and the forums guidelines that we have here.

B]


Copyright laws in no way suggest you have to own a book to use what is printed within it. The US Supreme Court is very clear on this issue in regards to Xerox Machines as well as Libraries.

Furthermore if GW didn't want the stats for the WE book to not be in the public domain then maybe they shouldn't have shown the finished book at various game shops across the country.

Heck half of what has been posted everyone in my local area knows because GW blue shirts showed us the WE book at a 'nid release party. They canít really expect people to come to an official GW function read the WE book and then not talk about itÖ

Brandir
05-06-2005, 19:01
Unfortunately this forum's administrator is based in the UK. The US Supreme Court's juristriction does not extend to these shores. Yet.

International copyright agreements do allow 'fair use', yes - for review and educartional purposes. But fair use does not mean quoting entire stat lines for every entry! One or two, yes. Hints or parts of the stats, yes. And copyright laws do not stop you using the stats, yes. But copyright laws do stop one reproducing stat lines. And companies such as GW that rely on intellectual propoerty rights must enforce them or they could be deemed to have lapsed.

Additionally one should read the copyright notice in GW's books. It explicitly states that GW does not give anyone permission to reproduce any part of the publication in any way. Tancred was wrong to post these stats. The mods were correct to edit his posts.

The core of GW's business is based on intellectual property rights and they quite correctly enforce those said rights. Well done mods.

Xxcha
05-06-2005, 21:04
As it has also been mentioned that they have magic resistence 1, i doubt that they would have this ward just against spells as it would be a bit of overkill.

Il Magno
05-06-2005, 22:18
Remember that wardancer have this ward AND MR 1..............

Tadite
05-06-2005, 22:38
Unfortunately this forum's administrator is based in the UK. The US Supreme Court's juristriction does not extend to these shores. Yet.

International copyright agreements do allow 'fair use', yes - for review and educartional purposes. But fair use does not mean quoting entire stat lines for every entry! One or two, yes. Hints or parts of the stats, yes. And copyright laws do not stop you using the stats, yes. But copyright laws do stop one reproducing stat lines. And companies such as GW that rely on intellectual propoerty rights must enforce them or they could be deemed to have lapsed.

Additionally one should read the copyright notice in GW's books. It explicitly states that GW does not give anyone permission to reproduce any part of the publication in any way. Tancred was wrong to post these stats. The mods were correct to edit his posts.

The core of GW's business is based on intellectual property rights and they quite correctly enforce those said rights. Well done mods.



They can make up intellectual property law all they want. The fundamental law is that a book may be both copied completely and all information within it used however one wishes so long as they source the creator of the work.

Heck by the version you subscribe to all academic research would simple cease to exist as we would not have the ability to use previous persons work without express consentÖ

Copyright laws really only control profit from the item as well as the choice to publish the item. They donít get control of what I do with it once I own it or once I borrow it from a friend.

Legally they couldn't make the claim to total control of a book within the US (or for that matter much of the world) unless they when to the Supreme Court and radically changed Constitutional Law.

All they can do is scare people with lawyers which is frankly far more effective then making up laws...

But either way I donít think GW really cares. You show people the book and the stats you should expect people to talk about them.

night2501
06-06-2005, 01:50
actually I donīt know whi people bother that much...all that is comente of the "future" WE book are just rumors after all, comenting and posting the rules of released products is onother stori...
well and about people that has seen the book, well we ge tmore or less a prewiew is not like we got the full rules and all details aniway the info could even be from some unfinished version ot before some things where fixed changed, after all is info they let skip, is not like there are people stoling the book fro mGW to fully publish it online (like wath hapened with the harri pooter book)

Brimstone
06-06-2005, 06:23
They can make up intellectual property law all they want. The fundamental law is that a book may be both copied completely and all information within it used however one wishes so long as they source the creator of the work.


Not the fundamental law on Portent, that's drawn up by the admins and we enforce it.

It's been made pretty clear what is and isn't allowed and we expect it to be adhered to.

Tadite
06-06-2005, 07:13
Not the fundamental law on Portent, that's drawn up by the admins and we enforce it.

It's been made pretty clear what is and isn't allowed and we expect it to be adhered to.


Sure no problem with that.

Jedi152
06-06-2005, 08:36
Why can't people just wait for the armybook instead of risking getting Portent shut down just for a few stats?

Would it kill people to wait til august to know if unit A has light or heavy armour, or the exact points value of every magic item/unit?

Plus ... you'll spoil the surprise! :p

Brandir
06-06-2005, 08:43
They can make up intellectual property law all they want. The fundamental law is that a book may be both copied completely and all information within it used however one wishes so long as they source the creator of the work.

Heck by the version you subscribe to all academic research would simple cease to exist as we would not have the ability to use previous persons work without express consentÖ

Copyright laws really only control profit from the item as well as the choice to publish the item. They donít get control of what I do with it once I own it or once I borrow it from a friend.

Legally they couldn't make the claim to total control of a book within the US (or for that matter much of the world) unless they when to the Supreme Court and radically changed Constitutional Law.

All they can do is scare people with lawyers which is frankly far more effective then making up laws...

But either way I donít think GW really cares. You show people the book and the stats you should expect people to talk about them.

Tadite you are completely wrong. It is illegal in both the US and UK to reproduce copyrighted material in any form and distribute it. For personal and private use one can copy the books. But once you start distributing that material you commit an illegal act and can be prosecuted - in the UK breaching copyright is punishable by unlimited fines and up to six months in prison.

UK Copyright Law Summary (http://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law)

UK Copyright Law Fair Use (http://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p09_fair_use)

One can USE the material yes. I said so in my post.

So, people may review/discuss the new WE army book providing they do not quote.

Anyway, back on topic my local GW manager stated that staff have put in their advance orders and they cost £60 (with their 50% discount).

Zeb
06-06-2005, 09:29
No unit in the WE army (including characters) have the option to take heavy armour. There might be a magical heavy armour, but I doubt it...

Brandir
06-06-2005, 09:51
I'm not worried about no heavy armour. To me the fluff would suggest a lighter force hence only light armour.

I would also like to see an organic type of look ie no metal on the minis. Don't know how realistic this is though!

warsmith
06-06-2005, 09:58
Hi there,

i have some question want to ask, pls help

1) can use tree singing move the same forest twice?
will it be stop when touch emery? if an emery inside, can we move?

2) The Call of the Hunt, what casting level? is that only 1 unit can effected?

3) can magic bow use together with magic arrow? BOL + HA/AB?

Thx

Brandir
06-06-2005, 11:17
In the past one could not use the Hail of Doom Arrow with the Bow of Loren.

Galonthar
06-06-2005, 13:15
In the past one could not use the Hail of Doom Arrow with the Bow of Loren.

no?......uh-oh..... I think sb is going to kill me for doing that.... :eek:
(it was 1 unit orks in 1 turn by 1 lord.... If I remember correctly)

warsmith
06-06-2005, 13:28
in past one, it can shoot hail of doom form BOF, but the effect is the same 3D6, may be the difference is long range.hehe... anyway, how would answer mt question?

1) can use tree singing move the same forest twice?
will it be stop when touch emery? if an emery inside, can we move?

2) The Call of the Hunt, what casting level? is that only 1 unit can effected?

3) can magic bow use together with magic arrow? BOL + HA/AB?

Seer Vansqueek
06-06-2005, 16:24
1) You can cast treesinging on one wood as many times as You wish in one turn and one treesinging moves wood for D3+1''. I don't know if it stops in contact with enemy, but if enemy is even partliary n the wood You can inflict D6 strength 5 hits, but in such case You don't move the wood.

2) I don't know what's the casting value, but it affects one friendly unit within 18'' of the mage.

3) You can use magic bow and magic arrows, but IMO the fact You've got Bow of Loren and Hail of Doom Arrows doesn't give You Ax3D6 shoots. (A-number of attacks)

warsmith
06-06-2005, 16:29
1) You can cast treesinging on one wood as many times as You wish in one turn and one treesinging moves wood for D3+1''. I don't know if it stops in contact with enemy, but if enemy is even partliary n the wood You can inflict D6 strength 5 hits, but in such case You don't move the wood.

2) I don't know what's the casting value, but it affects one friendly unit within 18'' of the mage.

3) You can use magic bow and magic arrows, but IMO the fact You've got Bow of Loren and Hail of Doom Arrows doesn't give You Ax3D6 shoots. (A-number of attacks)

1) Sometime, kill the emery is not important than Tactics !!!!!!
3) i know that, just want five(4+ alter) 2+ hit and emery no save.

Il Magno
06-06-2005, 16:52
The turn you use the HoDA you do not get any other bonus from the bow.
Call of the hunt should be 11+ ;)

warsmith
06-06-2005, 17:10
oh, 11+ is too hard for wood elves because lv2 mage can only use 3 dice to cast..
are u sure 11+? because other casting value is just very low, 4+.6+.7+.8+and 9+

Brandir
06-06-2005, 18:07
Won't Wood Elves get +1 to cast spells, like their High and Dark cousins?

Il Magno
06-06-2005, 18:37
As far as I know no bonus for WE mages! But ............... who knows, it looks strange also to me.

Tadite
06-06-2005, 18:56
Tadite you are completely wrong. It is illegal in both the US and UK to reproduce copyrighted material in any form and distribute it. For personal and private use one can copy the books. But once you start distributing that material you commit an illegal act and can be prosecuted - in the UK breaching copyright is punishable by unlimited fines and up to six months in prison.

UK Copyright Law Summary (http://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p01_uk_copyright_law)

UK Copyright Law Fair Use (http://copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p09_fair_use)

One can USE the material yes. I said so in my post.

So, people may review/discuss the new WE army book providing they do not quote.

Anyway, back on topic my local GW manager stated that staff have put in their advance orders and they cost £60 (with their 50% discount).



A person can walk into a library copy a whole book on a Xerox and walk out completely legally. I can then read it to a church group if I wanted. Personal use is a broad idea.

Breaking a copyright is when you take that copy and claim itís your work or try to sell it.

Havenít you ever had a reader college? The big huge binders filled with journal articles or individual chapters from books? So long as they are sourced they are completely legal.

As for the UK law. Doesn't matter. UK law is in no way important to how an American works under US copyright law...

If you wanted you could just put Protent in a nice little Island country and GW couldnít do anything but send scary emails from lawyers.

Brimstone
06-06-2005, 19:18
*Sighs*

GW is a UK company and the admin and responsible person on this site is a UK resident.

So UK law would apply

Anyway this is immateriat as Portent is covered by the admins law as I've already made pretty damn clear.

So drop this subject now as it's OT.

NakedFisherman
06-06-2005, 19:33
Isn't there a ship refueling station off the coast of Australia that some guy owns? It's called Oceania or something, and he essentially has his own couintry. I probably have the details wrong.

Brimstone
06-06-2005, 19:42
Naked Fisherman

I take it you really really want a strike as when I say drop it I mean drop it.

If you want to discuss stuff like that do it in random musings not in a Wood Elf rumour thred.

Don't do it again.

Renka
06-06-2005, 19:49
High Elves don't get +1 on their casting rolls, they get a bonus to their dispel rolls instead.
Also, 11+ isn't that bad, the best spell in most lores require 11+ or even 12+ to work so that would seem to be quite right.

Brandir
06-06-2005, 20:42
Do they? I don't have the book. Perhaps Wood Elves will get +1 to casting and dispelling:)

Renka
06-06-2005, 20:46
Nope, afraid not. They do get a extra spell though.

Xxcha
06-06-2005, 21:10
HE also get an extra spell, Drain magic. Anyway what is this spell you talk? if you refer to tree singing i thought that it was the first spell on the list, not an extra one.

Renka
06-06-2005, 21:21
Sorry, I were also refering to the High Elves. To be honest I've never even been close to seeing the new Wood Elf army book or anything from it, so I can't really say anything about it. I have played with the rules though, asuming the rumours I've read are true, but I can by no means guarantee that.

Maese Crochets
11-06-2005, 12:33
Hello, I'm new at Portent.
I've read some rumours somewhere else and I think that Tree Singing is an extra spell, like Drain Magic for HE.
Btw, there are loads of WE rules (in spanish) in LINK REMOVED. I know they are maybe breaking copyright rules but... ;)

warsmith
11-06-2005, 13:08
oh, in fact, nth special... just like the rumours i saw in many website.....
in fact, i dun know spanish... but ...hehe, the stats just the same.....

PARTYCHICORITA
11-06-2005, 15:45
Hello, I'm new at Portent.
I've read some rumours somewhere else and I think that Tree Singing is an extra spell, like Drain Magic for HE.
Btw, there are loads of WE rules (in spanish) in LINK REMOVED. I know they are maybe breaking copyright rules but... ;)

Well i'm from Peru(we speak spanish down here) and i can told those who may be interested that those rules are exactly the same that have been given hre as rumors but also adding the pts cost of the units and and items. However they are still just rumors.

Maese Crochets
11-06-2005, 23:28
Hi again, I've been re-reading that stuff and it says that Dryads will have lower L than current. Do you know if it is ok?
And I also can see that there are only four tree spirit units: Dryads, Treeman, Lemurs(Tree kin) and those weird Wild Riders (?); and two characters too (Dryad and Ancient Treeman).
Are we supposed to make Tree Spirit Armies with just this or am I missing something?
Thanks

Rabid Bunny 666
12-06-2005, 00:20
there is a mail order only eternity guard and 3 mail order only wardancers

the eternity guard look like armoured spearmen, the new waywatchers look awesome

i got this from the lil' booklet that GW does before every army is released, the staff put it out by accident today and took them back before i could get one :(

warsmith
12-06-2005, 06:04
Hi again, I've been re-reading that stuff and it says that Dryads will have lower L than current. Do you know if it is ok?
And I also can see that there are only four tree spirit units: Dryads, Treeman, Lemurs(Tree kin) and those weird Wild Riders (?); and two characters too (Dryad and Ancient Treeman).
Are we supposed to make Tree Spirit Armies with just this or am I missing something?
Thanks

I heard there is just one army list.. so, no need to said spirit unit or elves unit ....
u can just mix up... and in fact mix up is the best...

Jericho
12-06-2005, 07:44
Apparently you can do it either way, nothing says you have to. All requirements can be met with either all Elves or all Spirits. Just allows for more diversity.

Anyway if it's just three Wardancers, then why was one labelled Wardancer #4 on the booklet? Typo, or did they forget a picture?

Crube
12-06-2005, 09:10
there is a mail order only eternity guard and 3 mail order only wardancers

the eternity guard look like armoured spearmen, the new waywatchers look awesome

i got this from the lil' booklet that GW does before every army is released, the staff put it out by accident today and took them back before i could get one :(

The leaflet was due to go out on Friday (according to GW Notts)... Thats where the Release schedule came from, as well as pictures on a nother thread of the MO only wardancers and E/Guard.

Fulgrim's Gimp
12-06-2005, 09:12
I got the little preview booklet yesterday, and interestingly enough it seems to indicate that wardancers aren't plastic.

Maese Crochets
15-06-2005, 21:15
Are Wild Riders going to be plastic? Do you know how much will they cost?

Crube
15-06-2005, 21:16
Wild Riders should be plastic horsies with metal riders. Cost will be £20 for a box of 5 or £5 each

Odin
17-06-2005, 13:50
I got the little preview booklet yesterday, and interestingly enough it seems to indicate that wardancers aren't plastic.

As we've all known for at least 6 months now.

Maese Crochets
19-06-2005, 12:36
Does anybody know sth about special characters? Er... Orion, the Twin Dragon Riders and...?

fracas
19-06-2005, 13:15
Does anybody know sth about special characters? Er... Orion, the Twin Dragon Riders and...?
other than this pic no info yet
http://us.games-workshop.com/download/popup.htm?/games/warhammer/woodelves/extras/preview/images/twilight_sisters.gif

Galonthar
19-06-2005, 19:28
Does anybody know sth about special characters? Er... Orion, the Twin Dragon Riders and...?

I think I heard something about a human-hating dryad special char.,.... I heard it here on por..*err*...Warseer soo.... look around a bit,.. (I suppose it`ll be on page 5 or 6 of the forum list by now.. )