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Ironfather0
12-11-2009, 19:48
i was thinking about this the other day, Does anyone else think GW should have done a codex lost and the damned instead of a daemon codex? I kinda think they should have becuase they had one of the most flavorable lists outthere. anyone else agree?

Edonil
12-11-2009, 19:54
Yes. It's just you. :D

On a more serious note, with the addition of Forgeworld's Renegades lists, I actually think the idea of a Lost and the Damned army has a stronger backing to it. FW isn't juggling so many rules things that the Renegade lists won't ever be updated for another 5 (or 10) years. Eventually, the Siege of Vraks lists will be brought into line with the current IG and SM stuff. And when that happens, I think it will all balance out.

DoomedFuture
12-11-2009, 19:58
GW had daemon models, and needed cash. So they spun the army off. Now Chaos players had 1/2 a chaos marine army and 1/2 a daemon army. They believed, correctly, in my case, that we would then complete one or both armies.

Creeping Dementia
12-11-2009, 20:08
I think its just you, I haven't even thought about the Lost and the Damned in a long time. Squats come up and seem to have more demand than them (the Squats are dead though, give it up, bugs ate them). I think I like the way Deamons play better as well.

Bloodknight
12-11-2009, 20:27
I would have preferred an LatD army to a daemon army. The 40K daemons are pretty lame in my eyes, and I refuse to buy more daemons than I already have only because GW nerfed them in their native codex and gave them a boring (to play and against to play) spinoff; remember the time when it was hard to summon daemons in the fluff? Now they just pop up everywhere...

LatD on the other hand would have been nice from both a modelling and fluff perspective since they are what people fighting Chaos would encounter most of the time.

Killgore
12-11-2009, 20:31
remember the time when it was hard to summon daemons in the fluff? Now they just pop up everywhere...



And Space Marines or Chaos Space Marines, near mythical figures of legend pop up more frequently then any other force in the 40k Universe!



We only got the Daemon codex because it was so easy for GW to make a force to appeal to both Warhammer and W40k systems, and im pleased for this launch as revenue earned from this release has probaly helped contribute towards many future 40K products that we'v been crying out for!

Dark Eldar codex- Funded by Codex Daemons lol

Murphy's law
12-11-2009, 20:33
LATD was really cool. I kinda miss them.
But it's not to hard to create similar things. Use your imagination.
A genestealer cult would also be nice, but nothing you can't create using the IG codex.^^

Bloodknight
12-11-2009, 20:43
Dark Eldar codex- Funded by Codex Daemons lol

The question is: are Daemon armies popular at all?

I looked at two sticky polls in two German forums that have about 30K users together, with about 1K answering the polls, and in both of them the Dark Eldar had more players than Daemons which proved to be the least popular army after Kroot Mercs.

Daemons also won the "most hated army" poll by a wide margin, followed by SM and Tau ;)

I was too lazy to check Warseer polls on that matter, though, but I might do so later.

Edonil
12-11-2009, 20:44
It'd be interesting to see the popularity numbers in Fantasy... I suspect daemons are a very popular choice amongst those who can afford them, as they are the ultimate 'point and click' army there.

Bloodknight
12-11-2009, 21:36
;)

I just took a look. In one poll they're the second least popular army after Ogres. Could be because they are disreputable. (VC were the most popular, followed by WoC and then most armies had a pretty even amount of players until you hit TK, OK and DoC).

grissom2006
12-11-2009, 22:58
No the LotD doesn't warrant a Codex the whole thing with them is they are mysterious. Making a Codex would make them less so plus they've always been a limited fighting force not a complete army unless you use the Apocolypse sheet.

Death Company
12-11-2009, 23:11
No the LotD doesn't warrant a Codex the whole thing with them is they are mysterious. Making a Codex would make them less so plus they've always been a limited fighting force not a complete army unless you use the Apocolypse sheet.

Where are you getting mysterious from?

I think they could easily make them a full-on, stand-alone codex. So I don't see why that's one of the factors you make note of.

I mean, in most fluff, you're facing basic humans who are corrupted, so it isn't that much of a stretch.

It's supposed to be rare when you encounter Astartes!

the1stpip
12-11-2009, 23:24
Yes, LatD were a viable choice for a new codex, unfortunately, as they use models from other ranges, their sales didn't look nearly as good as they were.

And not everyone can afford or choose to go FW. They are laso not usable in tournaments, or in most pick up games.

Mannimarco
13-11-2009, 00:07
grissom: are you mistaking the mysterious legion of the damned (LOTD) for the fairly common (at least more common than standard CSMs) lost and the damned (LATD)

lost and the damned are covered very well in the siege of vraks books

legion of the damned: space marine chapter, probably former fire hawks chapter

lost and the damned: chaos guard, mutants and other cultists, your basic renegade guard army

grissom2006
13-11-2009, 00:12
Your getting the wrong end of the stick in what i'm saying they are pretty well known to the Imperuim. They even have a very good idea as to who they we're. Now that we are past these two points, how they are organised, commanded, manage to move about from A to B and arrive unannounced and then vanish is unknown along with just how do they know to go where (get the whole mystery part now).

And hey i'll admitt i misread the thread and thought it was about LotD. But my even knowning now that it's not my answer about doing a LatD Codex would still be a No. Sooner see a return of Legion rules for the CSM Codex.

Death Company
13-11-2009, 00:15
grissom: are you mistaking the mysterious legion of the damned (LOTD) for the fairly common (at least more common than standard CSMs) lost and the damned (LATD)

I didn't even think of that, haha. Based on him calling them mysterious, which confused me -- I would assume he is.


lost and the damned are covered very well in the siege of vraks books

This isn't a great answer though. Your opponent can just deny to allow its use.


Your getting the wrong end of the stick in what i'm saying they are pretty well known to the Imperuim. They even have a very good idea as to who they we're. Now that we are past these two points, how they are organised, commanded, manage to move about from A to B and arrive unannounced and then vanish is unknown along with just how do they know to go where (get the whole mystery part now).

I stand corrected..

This is still terrible reasoning for not producing a codex. Your personal desire to not see something fleshed-out isn't a very suitable reason.

Warboss Antoni
13-11-2009, 00:19
@grissom: You have it mixed up. You are thinking about the Legion of the Damned, that mysterious chapter of flaming marines and whatnot. This is about the Lost and the Damned, aka the regular chaos fighting force. Aka renegade gaurdsmen? If fluff was ever taken into consideration most conflict is between LaTD and the IG.

I'd love for LaTD codex, as I think they are extra cool and diverse. However, it would have to be a full on Legions of the Eye dex, much like the Eye of Terror list, and not a Renegade Gaurdsmen. It wouldn't be LaTD if they didn't have some daemons, CSM, and mutants along for the ride.

grissom2006
13-11-2009, 00:33
@grissom: You have it mixed up. You are thinking about the Legion of the Damned, that mysterious chapter of flaming marines and whatnot. This is about the Lost and the Damned, aka the regular chaos fighting force. Aka renegade gaurdsmen? If fluff was ever taken into consideration most conflict is between LaTD and the IG.

I'd love for LaTD codex, as I think they are extra cool and diverse. However, it would have to be a full on Legions of the Eye dex, much like the Eye of Terror list, and not a Renegade Gaurdsmen. It wouldn't be LaTD if they didn't have some daemons, CSM, and mutants along for the ride.

Well duh if you read my last post i put up :p

Eldoriath
13-11-2009, 00:37
LatD could do with their own codex. Yes, they use some models from other armies, but nothing wrong with that really, should only boost sales of pre-existing miniatures. Conversion kits, or even completely original renegade and mutant kits could be 2 plastic kits for them. Throw in some metal big mutants, Cult leader and renegade psycher and you'r pretty set to go, and still it would be easy to add some more miniature kits original for LatD. Giving them usefull Spawn rules would at least increase Spawn sales ;)

Oh, and just because a model appears in many codex doesn't have to mean something bad. Just look at the lojalist rhino kit/model, appears in at least seven different codices. Yes, it's a widely known model, but still. Proves a point that some models/kits won't take a hurt from appearing in many places.

wickedvoodoo
13-11-2009, 00:50
If only. Seriously, if only.

The daemons book for 40k is about as fun as being poked in the eye. There was just no need.

Lost and the damned would have been much more fun. More competative rules for muties and big muties and zombies and all that. Yum.

FW's renegade lists aren't too bad. in particular i like the look of the nurgle one.

Bloodknight
13-11-2009, 01:19
How much I would want Plague Zombies in regular games....

As to FW rules: there's always that jerk who won't play you because FW is unfair :rolleyes:


Yes, LatD were a viable choice for a new codex, unfortunately, as they use models from other ranges, their sales didn't look nearly as good as they were.

Probably the same problem the Dogs of War in WFB suffered from. People do extensive conversions with model kits from other armies, and those sales don't count as DoW or LatD sales, but Empire/Imperial Guard, High Elf, O&G, Ogre, Vampire Counts, whatever sales.

Logarithm Udgaur
13-11-2009, 11:01
Up until three or four months ago a "Bring back LatD" thread would pop up every week or so. With the new IG codex, a lot of us have our fix. I would still like to see a new LatD codex though. They are the coolest army in 40K and the reason I started playing.

Luko
13-11-2009, 11:15
I personally would love to see a LATD codex. It would take much work on behalf of GW I mean most of the models allready exist. They just need conversion kits. Prehaps something along the lines of SP and DA kits?

I also find it hilarious that in the vast majority of BL books the main opposition to the Space marines and guard is traitors and mutants! And yet they do not even have their own codex!

Luko

Murphy's law
13-11-2009, 11:18
Regarding chaos daemons: i've had only one cool game against them which was with my tyranids and which ended with a draw. All the other games were terrible.

Lost And The Damned was very, very cool. Nothing can reflect a chaos list better then that. Khornate beastmen, defilers, leman russes, big mutants, chaos champion.
Awesome.

Luko
13-11-2009, 11:28
I have a Daemon army. I only had to buy about 3 units when the codex came out to complete the army. I find it a army which is tricky to master at first but when you do becomes a bit repetative after awhile.

I think it would of been a lot cooler if GW released Daemons and daemon hunter around the same time, as daemon hunters suck at the moment and they are their main oppostion in fluff terms at least.

Again the same applies to LATD and Witch Hunters!

Luko

Brucopeloso
13-11-2009, 11:38
Yes, LatD were a viable choice for a new codex, unfortunately, as they use models from other ranges, their sales didn't look nearly as good as they were.

And not everyone can afford or choose to go FW. They are laso not usable in tournaments, or in most pick up games.

I really love LatD but I think a list on White Dwarf will be more than enough.
A codex would be extremely cool though

Barbarossa
13-11-2009, 11:55
LatD should have been there from the beginning; while demons should have stayed in the CSM codex.

hobodog
13-11-2009, 11:59
Definitely want LATD back. It was just such a fun army list!

Brucopeloso
13-11-2009, 13:37
LatD could do with their own codex. Yes, they use some models from other armies, but nothing wrong with that really, should only boost sales of pre-existing miniatures. Conversion kits, or even completely original renegade and mutant kits could be 2 plastic kits for them. Throw in some metal big mutants, Cult leader and renegade psycher and you'r pretty set to go, and still it would be easy to add some more miniature kits original for LatD. Giving them usefull Spawn rules would at least increase Spawn sales ;)

Oh, and just because a model appears in many codex doesn't have to mean something bad. Just look at the lojalist rhino kit/model, appears in at least seven different codices. Yes, it's a widely known model, but still. Proves a point that some models/kits won't take a hurt from appearing in many places.


Quoted for truth! LatD are a modeller's and kitbasher's dream and that means good sales for GW for a minimal investment. Alas they aren't marines so no dex :cries:

I would settle for a WD dex, that would go a long way!

I'll wait and see if an inquisition codex (still in the far future as well) can be used for counts as.

The Orange
13-11-2009, 14:53
The main problem is there's no models for LatD and that doesn't gel well with GW. They may not always have models for certian units, but it's their goal to have those models in their range eventually and it makes no sense to make a codex for an army where they have absolutely no models made (barring FW). Codex Daemons was just a smart business move.

Eldoriath
13-11-2009, 15:52
As I said LatD could easily get their own models, CSM are after all basically just spiky SM. They could have some unique models and some shared (vehicles and daemons i e). But as long as your only playing friendly games you can use the old LatD codex, something I'm planning on doing until (if) they get a WD or real codex.

Dark_Templar
13-11-2009, 21:17
I think its just you, I haven't even thought about the Lost and the Damned in a long time. Squats come up and seem to have more demand than them (the Squats are dead though, give it up, bugs ate them). I think I like the way Deamons play better as well.

So shouldn't we be seeing some short, stumpy, bipedal tyranids out there?

Creeping Dementia
13-11-2009, 21:30
So shouldn't we be seeing some short, stumpy, bipedal tyranids out there?

*incoming inflammitory remark*

No, the Nids didn't find any attributes worth encorporating into a species.





I'm kidding, I'm kidding, just let it go.

Nehemiah
13-11-2009, 23:28
I think it would of been a lot cooler if GW released Daemons and daemon hunter around the same time, as daemon hunters suck at the moment and they are their main oppostion in fluff terms at least.

Again the same applies to LATD and Witch Hunters!


From fluff terms anyone can easily be Witch Hunters opposition.

That said, the shear diversity of the Lost and the Damned made them an interesting army. Deamons, ex-guardsmen, cultists, mutants, Chaos Space marines, abhumans...

Bloodknight
14-11-2009, 00:30
In the end, I think GW should roll back Chaos into one big book like they did in 2nd edition, with a list that allows taking all that stuff.

Inquisitor_Tolheim
14-11-2009, 04:20
In the end, I think GW should roll back Chaos into one big book like they did in 2nd edition, with a list that allows taking all that stuff.

Ideally this, but no it's not just you. I really don't care for Codex: Daemons, as it's sparsely populated (by units that are almost entirely stolen from the CSM codex ) and simply smacked of "Codex: The Search for More Money" when it was released. I would have picked up a LaTD codex the day it was released and started converting up an army. I mean the Mutations sprue and a box of cadians/catachans already makes some very cool looking mutant models.

Count de Monet
14-11-2009, 04:27
The main problem is there's no models for LatD and that doesn't gel well with GW. They may not always have models for certian units, but it's their goal to have those models in their range eventually and it makes no sense to make a codex for an army where they have absolutely no models made (barring FW). Codex Daemons was just a smart business move.

They don't really need their own model range. Lost and the Damned/Traitor Guard type armies would (and already do) boost sales for Imperial Guard and a number of fantasy armies that are used for conversions. Add in the ability for them to have some access to CSM/CSM support and daemons and you increase those sales as well. There's no official non-FW Witch/Daemon Hunter Rhino or Land Raider for example - those players just buy the SM version, boosting SM sales. Same would happen with LatD.

Besides, back after Eye of Terror, everyone was doing LatD armies and the global economy was trucking along just fine. Then GW invalidates them, and not long afterwards the worldwide economic slowdown starts. Coincidence? I don't think so. ;)

meno1
14-11-2009, 04:49
There was an old LatD codex on the old GW site, before it was revamped. If you got a copy of that and produced a list, could an army be formed from that which would be accepted in friendly games? Or would people point and laugh, or reject it? I'd love to create a LatD army, but only really if I'll actually be able to play with it. Sure I love converting and such, but there's no way I'm paying so much for all the components to make such an army, spend so much time only for it to be a viewing piece only:(

Creeping Dementia
14-11-2009, 04:57
If I remember right that list wasn't very good. The pointing and laughing generally occured because of how poorly it performed, at least in my area. Maybe it was just the guys using it though.

Shibboleth
14-11-2009, 06:01
Yes, scrap the Daemon Codex and allow the God-specific Daemons to be incorporated into both CSM and a LatD Codex.
That may then make up for the LatD not having their own model range, by the now Codex-less Daemon's sales being absorbed by the both LatD and CSM...

An evil upgrade sprue for existing IG models would not go unsold though, and maybe another one for vehicles too...

primarch16
14-11-2009, 06:28
I don't think there's any room in today's mech game of 40k for a latd army. I mean what would it be made up of? Infiltrating traitors and a mutant horde, big mutants for elites etc. Any ork army will simy run them over because they do it better.

meno1
14-11-2009, 10:42
primarch16, LatD are basically renegade guardsmen. So think of IG with less tanks, but access to daemons, mutants and more chaotic abilities. Really they are half IG, half daemons, meaning that they can have tanks etc. as well as greater daemons and such IIRC. So really it is not fair to compare LatD to orks, completely different stat lines and playing styles.

Logarithm Udgaur
14-11-2009, 12:38
^What he said.

The old LatD list could be fully mechanized if one wished it to be. In my area it was considered "broken" in that it was fairly easy to make a list that could demonbomb, rhino rush, or meat grind with the best of them. My old lists usually consisted of an Uber-powerful character (Arch Heritic) supported by traitor guardsmen. Back in those day, people were not so adamant that everything had to be stamped with the Official Codex Sealtm, so there were also Chapter Approved add-ons as well.

TimLeeson
14-11-2009, 12:43
I like the daemon book and felt it was essential. Daemons are the gods very own minions and I hated not being able to play pure tzeenchian daemons without taking a bunch of humans.

I do think they should do a lost and the damned book AS WELL though, and id rather have that than the boring old legions get a book. That said, LOATD would be way better if it had chaotic aliens ala saruthi ect in it as well as the traitors/mutants ect...

primarch16
14-11-2009, 15:07
Great so we would have guardsmen who can summon lesser daemons and a greater daemon. With less tanks. Still doesn't sound too effective game wise. I'd prefer to just use the standard guard list and model them as traitors.

In fact, guardsmen for traitors, ogryns for big mutants, conscripts or penal legion for standard mutants, veterans for blood pact... The guard list is more or less perfect for latd.

At least the daemons list offers brand new units and playstyles, a latd list would feel lke codex imperial guard with spikes.

Logarithm Udgaur
14-11-2009, 15:44
The only new units in the Demon codex are the Heralds and Special Characters.

Grand Master Raziel
14-11-2009, 16:40
I'd have rather seen a LatD dex than the Daemon dex. I'd also rather see a LatD dex than any Chaos Marine legion dexes. The LatD would bring more to the system than any legion books. Personally, I liked the old LatD list, with its gribbly mix of regular guardsmen, mutants, big mutants, daemons, CSMs, Guard tanks, greater daemons, and Defilers. You can approximate some of that with the new Guard dex, but you can't really do the whole freakshow justice. That's the next Chaos dex I'd like to see. Siege of Vraks may be nice and all, but I'd rather not pay a gagillion dollars just for the books to play the list.

Murphy's law
14-11-2009, 17:12
I don't think there's any room in today's mech game of 40k for a latd army. I mean what would it be made up of? Infiltrating traitors and a mutant horde, big mutants for elites etc. Any ork army will simy run them over because they do it better.

I disagree.
You could do alot with LATD.
Chimera's combined with leman russes and a defiler. Nothing wrong with that.
But like someone else stated, the IG codex offers a lot of possibility's to reflect a traitor list.

Shipmonkey
15-11-2009, 08:52
The only new units in the Demon codex are the Heralds and Special Characters.

Which codex was the Soul Grinder from?

meno1
15-11-2009, 09:44
A lot of the daemons (including Soul Grinder IIRC) were in the old mixed codex, but they had no proper names.

Also there are issues with using the IG codex, including the spells, daemons, characters, chaotic vehicles (defiler)... I'd hate to see someone plonk down a sorcerer and go "hey theres my psyker" and for a Lord to count-as a Lord Commissar or something. The rules just don't fit, IMO.

Shibboleth
15-11-2009, 18:20
A lot of the daemons (including Soul Grinder IIRC) were in the old mixed codex, but they had no proper names.Soul Grinder wasn't invented yet, back then.

Also there are issues with using the IG codex, including the spells, daemons, characters, chaotic vehicles (defiler)... I'd hate to see someone plonk down a sorcerer and go "hey theres my psyker" and for a Lord to count-as a Lord Commissar or something. The rules just don't fit, IMO.Yeah, it's okay for Traitor Guard, but not full LatD.

shabbadoo
16-11-2009, 00:35
As to the OP, no, I don't think it is just you. The all Daemon list is kinda out there. A Chaos Cultists/LatD codex would have been much better, and would fit the 40K universe better too. By that I mean Daemon armies are *not* running amok outside of the Warp practically anywhere, whereas Chaos Cultist armies are all over the place.

Mannimarco
16-11-2009, 01:30
i for one still hope for the 3rd chaos codex for 40k, after all fantasy has daemons, warriors and beasts of chaos, it would be cool for there to be 3 books for 40k as well and would probably sell tonnes

Shipmonkey
16-11-2009, 04:59
i for one still hope for the 3rd chaos codex for 40k, after all fantasy has daemons, warriors and beasts of chaos, it would be cool for there to be 3 books for 40k as well and would probably sell tonnes

Techinically, they have four Chaos army books in WHFB. Don't forget the Skaven.

e2055261
16-11-2009, 05:02
LatD are much more viable and interestnig than the demons... I'd love to have units of mutants and big mutants... LatD opens up more gaming ideas and possibilities that's for sure....

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
16-11-2009, 05:13
Techinically, they have four Chaos army books in WHFB. Don't forget the Skaven.

Shhhhhh, you're going to wake Shamfrit.

I don't think you're out there either, OP. I find it incredibly odd and somewhat frustrating that one of the most common armies in Black Library novels and the background for almost every other codex has no codex itself. I'd love a Lost and the Damned codex. I'll buy one, GW. Heck, I'll buy five if it'll make you get off your butts and pump one out.

Shibboleth
16-11-2009, 09:16
A LatD Codex that includes daemons from all 4 gods could be organised so that a pure daemon-only list could still be taken too.

Nehemiah
16-11-2009, 11:25
I don't think you're out there either, OP. I find it incredibly odd and somewhat frustrating that one of the most common armies in Black Library novels and the background for almost every other codex has no codex itself. I'd love a Lost and the Damned codex. I'll buy one, GW. Heck, I'll buy five if it'll make you get off your butts and pump one out.

Maybe their reasoning was that games of 40,000 should only be played in the most epic ways possible, so creating a codex for an army everyone, (and their grandmother), fights on a regular basis, would be like making a game about going to the super market. It is done so much it is not very exciting.
But Deamons are the most insidious foe of mankind, so fighting them is much more grand.
Unfortunately, it is really the Lost and the Damned who are a bigger threat because they eat away at the core of the emperium and are everywhere.

I really do not mind that there is a Deamon Codex, but I do mind how little diversity there is in it. Really the only new unit is the Soulgrinder as far as deamon type, (heralds just being a Headquarters version of the lesser deamons).

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
16-11-2009, 14:44
A LatD Codex that includes daemons from all 4 gods could be organised so that a pure daemon-only list could still be taken too.

...OR the games developers and codex writers could write the book in such a manner as to make that impossible. You know, seeing as how they make the rules and all.


Maybe their reasoning was that games of 40,000 should only be played in the most epic ways possible, so creating a codex for an army everyone, (and their grandmother), fights on a regular basis, would be like making a game about going to the super market. It is done so much it is not very exciting.

No offense, but that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. There are more Orks in the universe then there are traitors, but we still have Orks! I just cannot follow your line of reasoning. I'm sure it's more likely that it's a money issue and they feel they won't make enough from such an army. Although it certainly seems like they are wrong, from the responses to this thread.

Ironfather0
16-11-2009, 22:53
Glad i'm not the only one who believes so...i don't know, i just think LATD would have been a smarter choice and would have fit 40k's fluff more. I just don't think the daemon codex was necessary. I wouldn't consider myself biased on this situation either since i've never played LATD or a chaos army for that matter. I just believe at the end of the day LATD would add more to 40k than daemons.

Steel Legion for Life
17-11-2009, 01:06
Tbh, while I love LatD armies, you can do them very well with the guard codex.

What would you add that isn't easily do-able with the guard codex?

The only thing I can't think of a good representation for from the old EoT list is the marine Squads and summoned demons - (Before people ask, Straken is an ideal arch heretic - 3+ save and St6 powerweapon was what 95% of them were equipped with, and the 12" inspirational aura of ferociousness is very characterful) - and those probably wouldn't be in a GW approved LatD list anyway.

Plague zombies would be nice I suppose - they were pretty much the only "special" mutants I ever saw. Any other (realistic) suggestions?

Mannimarco
17-11-2009, 01:22
im gonna have to agree with this ^, a LATD codex would be awesome but it can be covered pretty well by the guard codex

straken - heretic
conscripts - mutant rabble
stormtroopers - blood pact (or any elite renegade force)
most tanks are pretty much a straight copy

only thing missing really would be the defilers/stalk tanks and the old pattern tanks the blood pact use

Logarithm Udgaur
17-11-2009, 04:17
Things one cannot do with the IG codex.

-Regular Mutants (one can use Ogryn for the bigges, but no scalies). There is nothing in the new codex to represent any of the types (Leaping, Burly and the other two).
-Variable Squad sizes. One is stuck with 10 wo/men squads for pretty much everything.
-Demons, Chaos Marines, Chaos Spawn, Chaos Hounds, Defilers. All these were available in the old list, though I did not use them.

So, one can get a very effective Traitor Guard list (luckily for me), but cannot do anything near the coolness of a full on LatD list.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
17-11-2009, 04:51
Things one cannot do with the IG codex.

-Regular Mutants (one can use Ogryn for the bigges, but no scalies). There is nothing in the new codex to represent any of the types (Leaping, Burly and the other two).
-Variable Squad sizes. One is stuck with 10 wo/men squads for pretty much everything.
-Demons, Chaos Marines, Chaos Spawn, Chaos Hounds, Defilers. All these were available in the old list, though I did not use them.

So, one can get a very effective Traitor Guard list (luckily for me), but cannot do anything near the coolness of a full on LatD list.

This.

We're not saying it's impossible to do a LaTD army by proxy, but that there are a lot of things missing. Just read any 40K book about traitor armies and see their crazy sorcery and monsters.

Nehemiah
17-11-2009, 06:43
No offense, but that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. There are more Orks in the universe then there are traitors, but we still have Orks! I just cannot follow your line of reasoning. I'm sure it's more likely that it's a money issue and they feel they won't make enough from such an army. Although it certainly seems like they are wrong, from the responses to this thread.

None taken. When trying to rationalize a less than rational choice the result can be somewhat ridiculous.
However we do not know how many Orks are in the universe because 40k is still galaxy bound. Also Orks are an outside, alien threat, which attack in massive hoards. Once they start attacking Chaos cults and traitors become a minor issue. Which goes back to the idea of battles of the most epic scale.
Keep in mind this is not a vote of approval for Chaos Deamons getting its own codex over the Lost and the Damned.