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DrkAp0stle
13-11-2009, 01:08
As the title says, this is a bit of a random question. I'm up at school right now and don't have access to a hobby store nearby and I'm thinking about playing 40K again and just ordering everything from GW direct.

But...

When I played in 3-4ed, Word Bearers had their own set of little rules within the codex-Dark Apostle (hence the username), accursed crozius, mass demons, etc.

Do they still have this in the new codex, or any of the small faction rules ala-night lords, iron warriors, alpha, word bearers, etc.

Or is it just generic CSM now and I could paint them up to be Word Bearers.

THanks guys

-DrkAp0stle

Mannimarco
13-11-2009, 01:15
nope its all just generic stuff nowdays

there are no word bearers in the book, there are however red marines, theres no alpha legion but there is greeny blue marines and so on

JHZ
13-11-2009, 01:36
We're all Black Legion, once the light of fluff went out.

Hicks
13-11-2009, 01:37
The main difference is that you don't have access to god specific daemons now, just generic daemons for troops and a generic greater daemons.

The good news is that they don't use up space in the force organisation charts and they can charge when they enter play.

The accursed crozius was nothing more than a power weapon and those are still part of the Chaos Lord wargears. With a couple banners in your CSM squads to avoid scatter with your daemons and you can easily have a working Word Bearer force.

Bolter Bait
13-11-2009, 01:59
Only way to make a Dark Apostle to lead Word Bearers is to give a Chaos Lord the Mark of Tzeentch and a power weapon, which gives you an expensive and useless IC with a 4++ save and nothing else remotely chaplain-like. Plus, now he's aligned to Tzeentch instead of Chaos Undivided. Whoo.

That's the only major difference though is the dull Dark Apostle. You can still have lots bland vanilla daemons, just no daemons with sprinkles or crushed peanuts on top.

Operative
13-11-2009, 02:12
Many Legions were butchered and left for dead with this most recent codex.

The Word Bearers, may they rest in peace.

pookie
13-11-2009, 13:30
with some careful choice of equipment and counts as you can still build reasonable Factions to represent Warbands from the Major Legions, apaprently some people dont think its possible though :rolleyes

( im not claiming you can do everything the old dex could, but you can still quite a lot, you just need a open mind about things )

Vaktathi
13-11-2009, 14:18
You basically just have generic CSM's that you can paint as Word Bearers. WB's didn't get hit too hard with the current book as their big thing was taking lots of Daemon troops, and you can still do this as they take no FoC slots, but there's only on generic Daemon type with one statline, but if that doesn't bother you then you can still go ahead and do that.

As for the Dark Apostle, the only big thing there was the demagogue ability and the 4+ invul. You can get the 4+ invul through a Mark of Tzeentch if you just want to "counts-as" it, but there's no Demagogue ability anymore, although with everything in the book either fearless or Ld10 with a 10pt upgrade to reroll failed morale tests, it's probably not needed.

The Orange
13-11-2009, 14:44
The current Chaos Codex heavily emphasizes Chaos Renegades over the original legions. GW Dev's have said in the past that they hope to put out more legion/god specific books in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Grimgork
13-11-2009, 15:58
I do run a Word Bearer Force with the current codex quite successful. Generic CSM with lotsa demons and a great demon. Then I field some Havoc Squads and possesed. All painted in WB colours make up for a quite nice, characterful force that also is reasonably playable and not too weak like some other legions.

DrkAp0stle
13-11-2009, 17:29
Hm. This is what I feared.

Well, I'm going to have to find a way to make a Lord w/PW and something that could come close to his demagogue ability.

I'll pick up the new Codex and give it a shot.

-0Ne

Eulenspiegel
13-11-2009, 19:05
Well, I'm going to have to find a way to make a Lord w/PW and something that could come close to his demagogue ability.
Donīt feel too constrained by the old rules. An accursed crozius could easily be a Demon Weapon. Also, a 5+ save, the one that all Chaos Lords come with, should be enough to represent his aura (how was that justified again in 3rd?).
This, together with the Mark of Chaos Undivided gives you a cheapish and not too shabby Apostle, who can ride together in a Rhino or Land Raider with his Chosen or Chaos Warriors (or Possessed).

"Demagogue" is gone, but you could e.g. just say that the Ld-boost the Chaos Warriors get from their Icons are due to his unholy rhetorical rhetoric.

Jimbobjeff
13-11-2009, 19:34
Tzeenchian chaos lord with a power weapon, instant dark apostle.

Durath
13-11-2009, 19:43
We're all Black Legion, once the light of fluff went out.

Eloquent. I may sig this.

He Who Thirsts
16-11-2009, 04:54
What if you made a dark apostle special character? Maybe something like...

Jareluk, Dark Apostle

Stats = standard

Wargear - Crozius Arcanum (power weapon), Pulpit of Chaos, Power Armour, Bolt Pistol.

Pulpit of Chaos - Jareluk can move 18 inches, ignores terrain, and affords a 2+ armour save.

Special Rules - Independent Character, 5+ invul save, Fearless, Dark Apostle, Protection of Tzeentch

Dark Apostle - Any freindly unit that has a line of sight to Jareluk is Fearless. All friendly models within 12 inches gain an extra attack, and all enemies within 12 inches must take a leadership test or flee.

Protection of Tzeentch - Grants a 3+ invulnerable save, and 2 extra power weapon attacks.


This represents Jareluk in Dark Apostle with all his glory and power.

Bolter Bait
16-11-2009, 05:04
Donīt feel too constrained by the old rules. An accursed crozius could easily be a Demon Weapon. Also, a 5+ save, the one that all Chaos Lords come with, should be enough to represent his aura (how was that justified again in 3rd?).It was justified as Word Bearers had large contingent of chaplains and that's really all a Dark Apostle is - a chaplain dedicated to the Chaos pantheon rather than cult of the God-Emperor. Worshipping Chaos wouldn't make the force field granted by their rosarius any less functional, especially if it is sustained by the dark powers.

Dragoon King
16-11-2009, 05:14
We're all Black Legion, once the light of fluff went out.

Thank heavens I've always been a BL player. I sympathize with all the other legion blokes though, maybe you'll have some flavor when the Legion codices hit (I wouldn't hold my breath if I were an Undivided player though, ala Word Bearers.)

Leftenant Gashrog
16-11-2009, 14:43
Worshipping Chaos wouldn't make the force field granted by their rosarius any less functional, especially if it is sustained by the dark powers.

Word Bearers don't have rosarii, they originated with the Ecclesiarchy millenia after the Heresy. In the 3.5 dex the invunerable save was tied to the Accursed Crozius itself and was attributed purely to the protection of the dark gods.

SPYDER68
16-11-2009, 14:52
Hm. This is what I feared.

Well, I'm going to have to find a way to make a Lord w/PW and something that could come close to his demagogue ability.

I'll pick up the new Codex and give it a shot.

-0Ne

Don't listen to the ones crying here all the time about Chaos Book.. Its not that bad, and some will find any way to complain about the book.


If you want to play a certain Legion, go for it, paint the army to match the legion, use whatever units you want in the chaos book and use them as counts as and go with conversions to make them fit the unit you want.

You dont haft to look at the book and see Plaguemarines and be like you cant use them because they are Nurgle.. Model them a different way and say there a different unit using plague marine rules...

There are so many options you can do.

Most players are like daemon princes or abbadon for HQ....

I went against a Tzeench Lord with a Daemon Weapon last weekend that was in a land raider.. He got the charge on my death company and rolled a 6 for his extra attacks and basically whiped my squad in 1 phase with 1 character.

x-esiv-4c
16-11-2009, 14:57
You can always wait until the next chaos codex. That's what i'm doing :sad:

SPYDER68
16-11-2009, 15:03
You can always wait until the next chaos codex. That's what i'm doing :sad:

Thats if he wants to wait for 2-3 years or possibly longer to even play if thats the case.

x-esiv-4c
16-11-2009, 15:12
Or you could use the Space-wolf codex. Seems a lot of people are.

SPYDER68
16-11-2009, 15:19
Or you could use the Space-wolf codex. Seems a lot of people are.

Its an option for sure.

Those so far, only thing out of that book i like is the grey hunter squads and the Scouts.

Dragoon King
16-11-2009, 17:25
I've quickly scanned through the SW dex, and it's not really that impressive to me. The current Chaos dex isn't terrible, but could have been much better. I think with the Legion codices people will be screaming "Chaos is overpowered!" again, at least my friends will, hopefully, lol. The current dex just takes a while to get a good list, there are some kickass options we get, like Chosen (come on, 4 Plasma Guns, an Autocannon, and infiltrate? What's not to love?) Oblits have to be in the top 3 best units in the game, period. I only have one complaint with the HQ choices, I miss retinues. Raptors are great. Hell, even god-specific troops count as Troops, not Elites! Terminators are the biggest let down, as you can't have dedicated termies or vehicles now.

SPYDER68
16-11-2009, 21:04
I only have one complaint with the HQ choices, I miss retinues. Raptors are great. Hell, even god-specific troops count as Troops, not Elites! Terminators are the biggest let down, as you can't have dedicated termies or vehicles now.

Retinue isnt needed anymore..

Just force the opponets power weapon or power fist in base to base with the squad and not your HQ.

Therefore... no powerfist or power weapon attacks on your character.

You are forced to attack what your in base to base with.

sliganian
16-11-2009, 21:25
Terminators are the biggest let down, as you can't have dedicated termies or vehicles now.

:wtf:

A 30 point model in with a 2+/5+Inv save, combi-bolter and Powerweapon, base 2 attacks.

Yeah, there are simply HIDEOUS. :rolleyes:

Gimp
16-11-2009, 21:31
You can still do Legion based armies they are just not as fun and different as they used to be.

Black Legion: Lots of marine units with different marks?

Iron Warriors: Vindicators, Oblitrators and Havocs

Night Lords: Raptors and Bikers

Alpha Legion: Chosen and daemons counting as rebels

Word Bearers: Lots of lesser and greater daemons

Eldrad
16-11-2009, 21:49
Greater Demons are 0-1 and, You need a very active imagination to see demons as rebels. Since you have to teleport the demons in. Iron Warriors are doable, but you'd be better off using the SM codex so u can get techpriests. Black Legion are very easily represented as the Codex is basically designed about them. Night Lords can be represented but very poorly, since you cant take bikes as troops u get to choose how you want to fill out your FA slots. Not saying it cant be done but if you compare it to a SM force with AssMarines and Bikers, theres not really an argument for going CSM, unless you want a DemonPrince to lead them.

Dragoon King
17-11-2009, 02:39
:wtf:

A 30 point model in with a 2+/5+Inv save, combi-bolter and Powerweapon, base 2 attacks.

Yeah, there are simply HIDEOUS. :rolleyes:

That's not the bad thing, the bad thing is you can't have a Mark with termies now. I guess I'm trying to say that in actual play, they aren't too bad, actually can be quite effective, but fluff-wise, they are lacking. For instance, you can make Black Legion termies, paint em BL, and it's gravy. Same thing applies to other Undivided factions. But if you want a Death Guard termie squad, then all you can have is an Icon, they aren't true Death Guard termies. This makes no since to me, why wouldn't DG have their own dedicated termies (not to mention vehicles)? They are a Legion, whereas my most hated adversary, Dark Angels, is just a Chapter, and they have they own specialized termie force, the Deathwing. Isn't a Legion much more numerous than a Chapter? I thought a Legion was 10,000 strong and a Chapter 1000? So why can DA have their own army of termies basically, but DG just get vanilla ones. I've noticed a trend with the current dex. Yes, stuff is cheaper, but it tastes like a bad T.V. dinner, no flavor at all.:D

DrkAp0stle
11-03-2010, 18:09
Don't listen to the ones crying here all the time about Chaos Book.. Its not that bad, and some will find any way to complain about the book.


If you want to play a certain Legion, go for it, paint the army to match the legion, use whatever units you want in the chaos book and use them as counts as and go with conversions to make them fit the unit you want.

You dont haft to look at the book and see Plaguemarines and be like you cant use them because they are Nurgle.. Model them a different way and say there a different unit using plague marine rules...

There are so many options you can do.

Most players are like daemon princes or abbadon for HQ....

I went against a Tzeench Lord with a Daemon Weapon last weekend that was in a land raider.. He got the charge on my death company and rolled a 6 for his extra attacks and basically whiped my squad in 1 phase with 1 character.


While I do see where your coming from, my old Word Bearers force worked mainly because of the specific daemons intertwined with marines...

When a Marine unit in a Rhino w/ bolters and a heavy bolter unload, summon an entire unit of flamers, which are essentially short ranged heavy bolters.

Bloodletters, I don't feel the need to elaborate upon how useful they were.

Alright, I've got an 1850 list finished which I'll post up and begin rebuilding my army, we'll see how this goes..

-Ap0stle

totgeboren
11-03-2010, 18:21
I got a WB army, and I have been contemplating how to run my Dark Apostle.

Now I'm using him as a Chaos Lord, but maybe the rules for a Chaos Sorcerer would work better?
A Chaos Sorcerer with warptime (to represent his righteous fury and demoniacally possessed Crozious , and lack of suckiness that defines the Chaos Lord) and Mark of Tzeentch (to give him his 4++ save) would give you a model that can fight well in close combat, and behaves on the tabletop quite like the old Lord did.
On the other hand, he turns into a quite expensive model, so i will likely just play him like i use to.

Other than the difficulty of getting your characters to "feel" like they should, I think the codex works well enough. I got techmarines as obliterators, and homemade daemons, so with some work, you can make a well working list. :)

Also, if your friends are nice enough to allow you to include cultists (http://web.archive.org/web/20020602221358/www.gamesworkshop.com/40kuniverse/warhammer40k/chaos/chaoscultists.htm), they make the army feel alot more like Word Bearers.

Dark Primus
11-03-2010, 18:42
You can always wait until the next chaos codex. That's what i'm doing :sad:

Yes me too.
But I expect the first earliest rumors wont come till the last months of 2012 at best.