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Storak
13-11-2009, 13:24
simple rule:

captured banners from units that originally cost less than 100 points, do not give additional VPs.

simple fix, isn t it?

(just looked at my spider sprue, and wondered whether i should simply throw that wonderful banner away, or hope for better rules in a future edition?!?)

EndlessBug
13-11-2009, 13:32
I don't think it's really an issue tbh. Stds on fast cav and the like shouldn't be needed anyway. If you do want to take them then you're fast enough to only engage the units you want to in combat.

Avian
13-11-2009, 13:36
I came up with a solution in my terrain generator which has been adopted by many tournaments around the country:

At the end of the battle, the player who controls the greatest amount of standards (enemy standards he has conquered and own standards he has kept) gains a set amount of VPs (ex. 200).

That has worked very well in practice.

Eternus
13-11-2009, 13:43
I don't think it's a problem anyway, just don't take banners on units that you know you'll lose, but - banner is worth 50% of the unit value in VP's. This way, the more important the unit, the more valuable the banner is - though I suppose that mullering a single very expensive unit could win the game.

Storak
13-11-2009, 13:49
I don't think it's really an issue tbh. Stds on fast cav and the like shouldn't be needed anyway. If you do want to take them then you're fast enough to only engage the units you want to in combat.

i disagree. my problem was with a nice model. it is a complete waste under current rules.

my fast cav can NOT dictate, who they get into combat with. animosity, failed fear tests and skirmishing flyers often leave me in combat with a unit. (running will often mean leaving the battle field or possibly panic some gobbos...)

those 5 to hit rolls by the S4 riders also are no guarantee of success...


I came up with a solution in my terrain generator which has been adopted by many tournaments around the country:

At the end of the battle, the player who controls the greatest amount of standards (enemy standards he has conquered and own standards he has kept) gains a set amount of VPs (ex. 200).

That has worked very well in practice.

i like this idea. it is very similar to a rule at a tournament, which i will visit tomorrow..

Whitehorn
13-11-2009, 14:13
Carnage and our club use Avian's system, 100 VP to the *most* captured.

Still, if you don't like it, don't give standards to your crap units :)

xragg
13-11-2009, 14:39
I came up with a solution in my terrain generator which has been adopted by many tournaments around the country:

At the end of the battle, the player who controls the greatest amount of standards (enemy standards he has conquered and own standards he has kept) gains a set amount of VPs (ex. 200).

That has worked very well in practice.

Interesting. Makes me think about battles with my old wood elves which never had a banner. I used them in one tourney which had a scenario that involved around nominating a banner of your own to protect for bonus points. This created problems as me and another wood elf player had no banners. I think the organizer resolved the issue by having us nominate a musician as our model to protect. Anyway, thats way off topic and I think I will suggest trying this method for scoring captured banners.

JonnyTHM
13-11-2009, 14:50
I don't see this as a fix. Maybe it's just me, but I think that it will break things terribly if you give small cheap units banners. It means that they gain a significant benefit with no risk. Alternatively I think that any banner that capturing isn't worth any points should cost at the very least 25 points - the same as a warbanner.

My suggested fix:

Paint up that beautiful standard bearer and use them in a diorama, or as part of your army display in front of all your units of spider riders.

Condottiere
13-11-2009, 18:44
There's prestige and morale factors involved in capturing unit standards - usually it has to be from at least battalion/regiment sized formation.

We could of course create a tiered system, depending on the original number of models, point cost, and unit slot, but as my colleagues keep complaining about my game mechanism designs, that just complicates matters.

Lord of Skulls
13-11-2009, 20:52
I actually think that giving half the cost of the unit for capturing its banner seems like a good way to fix the problem. And you need to calculate half the cost of units quite often anyway, so it shouldn't be that much hassle.

But I also think that each captured banner a unit carries should give +1 combat resolution. (Being charged by a unit that just annihilated your generals bodyguard and took their banner is bound to be a little unnerving ;) )

Falkman
13-11-2009, 21:13
I came up with a solution in my terrain generator which has been adopted by many tournaments around the country:

At the end of the battle, the player who controls the greatest amount of standards (enemy standards he has conquered and own standards he has kept) gains a set amount of VPs (ex. 200).

That has worked very well in practice.
This is a great idea, and I know one guy here in Sweden who used that idea as well for a scenario in a tournament, and I will also be using it for a small tournament I am hosting this winter.

Red Metal
13-11-2009, 21:37
(just looked at my spider sprue, and wondered whether i should simply throw that wonderful banner away, or hope for better rules in a future edition?!?)


I have the same problem with my Wood Elf Glade Guard - they come with two great looking Standards, but I would never use them in an actual game. Meanwhile, I always give Standards to my Dwarf infantry blocks, though none of them look all that good - it looks like the Dwarves just nailed a bunch of shields, chains, and baubles to a stick.

I also like the previously mentioned rule of "the one with the most captured Standards gets the points".