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Vanger
13-11-2009, 15:03
The question is: Would you play against a space marines army using Sisters of Battle rules?

Ofc everything would be wysiwyg. SM marines would replace Sisters, Whirlwind would replace Exorcist and so on.

Do you find it acceptable or not?

galahad67
13-11-2009, 15:05
sure

and using sisters as marines would be ok as well

just make sure you have everything mideled as it will be used (no lascannons...)

Sappysid101
13-11-2009, 15:06
If you pay the points i dout i would care, altho i'd prefer to no wat everything would count as at the time ; )

- Sid

LonelyPath
13-11-2009, 15:21
Since Sisters already have a codex I prefer people to use their codex when fielding them, ut that's my opinion of every force that already has an existing codex.

Deetwo
13-11-2009, 15:25
Seeing how rigid and unforgiving the actual sister models are, I wouldn't mind it at all.

WYSIWYG with all weaponry, a paint scheme to match an inquisitorial force and making clear to opponents what everything is and it should go fine.
You could think of it as a variation of Grey Knights.. A sort of elite taskforce of marines within the Ordo Hereticus.

Just one thing though, don't include any inducted marines in the army :)

bobbles
13-11-2009, 15:27
I'd have no issue with it.

TheBigBadWolf
13-11-2009, 15:32
Why would you want to, I wouldnt have a problem with it, I just cant understand the point.

Edonil
13-11-2009, 15:34
Well, no, but the Sisters army is actually a fairly effective one, so I'm not sure why you'd put all the effort into collecting the models and not use them...

Tarian
13-11-2009, 15:36
That, and S3 T3 Marines... I'd say go for it though if yo want to.

Deetwo
13-11-2009, 15:37
Why would you want to, I wouldnt have a problem with it, I just cant understand the point.

Some people don't like female models.

And if it was me, I would do it because the sister models are sculpted in a way that makes it rather impossible to do anything to them.
I personally like hacking up limbs and repositioning them for aesthetic reasons (of minis, honest!).. And that's not an option when the model is a solid chunk of metal.

Pretty sure I would've already done a SoB army when it was initially released if there was a plastic box of sisters :)

pookie
13-11-2009, 15:40
depends, is that you in your Avatar? if so, id let youuse lego bricks if you wanted :D

on a more serious note, if you want Girls in Power armour, SoB is it, Marines CANNOT be female, sorry its just a NONO.

actually i miss understood your question, and thought you meant it the otherway round...

there was a time when you had to use Marines to represent SoB and i even did it then, so i wouldnt say no simply because ive done it myself.

Nezalhualixtlan
13-11-2009, 15:47
The question is: Would you play against a space marines army using Sisters of Battle rules?

Ofc everything would be wysiwyg. SM marines would replace Sisters, Whirlwind would replace Exorcist and so on.

Do you find it acceptable or not?

Yeah, I don't see why not. I like the look of the SoB models, but it's a pain that they're all metal. As long as you had things reasonably modeled to show differences I wouldn't care, not even if it wasn't wysiwyg. All you really need is a model with the right size base and model differences enough that you can tell what one has a unique special weapon or wargear or whatever, doesn't even matter if they're technically the exact weapon it's supposed to be carrying so long as you can track which one is different.

Vaktathi
13-11-2009, 15:51
I wouldn't have a problem with it, although I'd kinda wonder why. As long as all the rules were followed there's no reason not to play it other than stubbornness.

Johnnyfrej
13-11-2009, 16:00
As others have said I wouldn't have a problem, just curious as to why.

JHZ
13-11-2009, 16:04
I can't see any problems, as long as they're WYSIWYG. Power armour is power armour and bolter is bolter. Even the Forge World Exorcist looks more like the Whirlwind than the GW organ gun (which would be one bitching piece of equipment for a Noise Marine army, by the way). Sister armour is based on the Mk. 7 Marine armour, so basically what we're seeing here, is less skin tight supermodels, and more sturdy piece of military gear.

Are you gonna use normal SM helmets, or what? A set of female heads (there's a whole host of them out there) on there wouldn't hurt, and maybe different shoulder pads too, if you'd like. Also, maybe add some extra bling bling and tabards.

That is all.

Edonil
13-11-2009, 16:15
Oh! I got it wrong on the counts as direction you were going. Not you want to buy Sisters and use them as Marines, but you want to buy Marines and use them as Sisters...gotcha. Well, personally, I think you're missing out on some fun painting, I love the Sisters model, but that's your call. Totally fine in my book.

JHZ
13-11-2009, 16:46
I think a few people have missed the mark. It's Marine MODELS and Sister RULES, not the other way around.

Personally, I've always thought that if I made a Sister army, I'd use Marine models as the base, because while there's nothing wrong with the female form, the purely militaristic bulky armour is more appealing in general sense than some Roman style armour with the chiseled bodily features of a Greek god. Maybe for the special characters and officers, but certainly not as a general look. Too much bling becomes redundant. You have to use it as an accessory only.

505
13-11-2009, 17:56
I dont know why they would. but I have thought of the same thing beacuse I dont have the money for an all metal army

Ixquic
13-11-2009, 19:05
Yeah $6.50 for a metal flamer gets expensive real quick. I don't think anyone would have a problem with it since everything is in powerarmy with the same Imperial tanks and weapons so it would be easy to keep stuff straight.

I have a Sister army (most of which is second or third hand) and I've used Whirlwinds as two of my Exorcists for years and no one has complained. I've actually converted some of them to have WYSIWYG weapons and equipment (for instance they don't have a model with an Eviscerator and a standard bolter). It can be a pain since often times the gear is parl of their robes but it's doable.

Vanger
13-11-2009, 19:23
Thanks for all the replies so far.

As many people guessed it so far, the major reason would be that Wh model range is almost full metal. Plasitc is easier to assemble, paint and transport.

Also as a pure sisters force is PA only, there wouldn't be any wargear wysiwyg issues.

Whitwort Stormbringer
13-11-2009, 19:36
If you only play with friends, or at a club, where no one cares then sure, go for it.

I'd be fine with it on account of the fact that the models for Sisters are expensive and not at all versatile. However, personally I'd say the painting and converting should make it crystal-clear that these guys are affiliated with the Sisters and the Ordo Hereticus. Inquisition symbols on the tanks, that little fleur de lys tacked on in various places, red/black/white color scheme, etc. There are a handful of female heads out there that you can use as well, if you're going for sisters in marine-style power armor. I might leave the shoulderpads off to take off a bit of the bulk and use the dark angel and black templar torsos that have tabards.

Don't plop an army of Ultramarines onto the table and then not play them as Ultramarines is my general sentiment.

EDIT: If you're playing pure sisters though, then why exactly are you not just playing marines instead? Ruleswise you're basically sacrificing some stats and unit options, and not really getting much back. I mean, since you're using marine models you won't get the flavor of a sisters force. I had assumed the point was to include a few WH specific units, like inquisitors.

Xelloss
13-11-2009, 19:40
It would be criminal not to use the awesome sister models ! so I vote no !

(Well I would play against it, but I will not miss an occasion so show my disappointment)

JHZ
13-11-2009, 19:44
I mean, since you're using marine models you won't get the flavor of a sisters force.
Like ceramite crafted into the shape of mammaries and high heels?

Deetwo
13-11-2009, 19:50
Ruleswise you're basically sacrificing some stats and unit options, and not really getting much back. I mean, since you're using marine models you won't get the flavor of a sisters force. I had assumed the point was to include a few WH specific units, like inquisitors.

Besides the fact that SoB units have practically nothing in common with marines, other than rhinos and a few weapons?
Also, faith points are a completely different mechanic to anything marines have.

nagash66
13-11-2009, 19:58
No just not, you wanna play sisters get sisters.

Creeping Dementia
13-11-2009, 20:03
I normally have no issue with people using different models, and I don't hold opponents to strict WYSIWYG either. I don't think I like this idea though, using the model range for one army but the rules for a totally different army just doesn't seem right. I wouldn't expect my opponent to let me use my Nid army with Ork rules (if I hadn't sold my Nids). Using bits to model stuff, sure, but I guess using the wrong rules for an army is right around the place I draw the line.

Whitwort Stormbringer
13-11-2009, 20:06
Like ceramite crafted into the shape of mammaries and high heels?
:rolleyes:
They have an aesthetic that goes beyond simply "female marines." The shoulder pads and helmets are a different design, they've all got the tabards and sleeves, their armor is less angular - generally speaking they don't have the bulk and bland appearance of marines.

Beyond the fact that they're women (fairly uncommon in GW games) and that the models look different than marines, Sisters are fairly bland as a stand-alone force with just 1 HQ option, 1 elite option (which really can't be represented by marine models anyways), 1 troop choice, 1 fast attack, and by far the most heavy support.

Why play a pure Sisters of Battle army instead of marines if not for aesthetic purposes? What do Sisters of Battle have that marines don't, and then some?


Besides the fact that SoB units have practically nothing in common with marines, other than rhinos and a few weapons?
Also, faith points are a completely different mechanic to anything marines have.
You mean nearly all their equipment (handflamers and eviscerators being the only exeptions I can come up with)?

They use bolters, bolt pistold, flamers, meltas, plasma pistols, power weapons, power armor, jump-packs.

Admittedly I haven't played sisters, so I don't know exactly how faith points work, but do they really add so much that they're radically different from marines?

Seems to me like the more characterful and interesting stuff are the penitent engine and sisters repentia, because they don't look just like humans with space marine gear (penitent engine could be represented by a dreadnought, of course).

To the OP: were you planning on adding any specialized units to the army, like inquisitors, assassins, arco-flagellants, or sisters repentia? I think that would help drive home the notion that you're playing a sisters of battle army.

Lord Damocles
13-11-2009, 20:20
I wouldn't have a problem with counts-as Sisters, but just using straight up Marine models doesn't sit well with me.

Converted Scouts perhaps...

Count de Monet
13-11-2009, 20:25
Wouldn't bat an eye. Would be fun to see "marines" with powers of faith (or perhaps "combat tactics points" ;) ) and could be nifty to see a chapter like Salamanders rolling with a bunch of Immolators. :evilgrin:

JHZ
13-11-2009, 20:33
They have an aesthetic that goes beyond simply "female marines." The shoulder pads and helmets are a different design, they've all got the tabards and sleeves, their armor is less angular - generally speaking they don't have the bulk and bland appearance of marines.
Pure aesthetics. It's like if I took SM models and used them as Renegade Marines, because I didn't like the silly backpacks and horned helmets. How does a pair of horns and a a different backpack make them CSM? How does using Cadians not allow me to use Death Korps rules?


Beyond the fact that they're women (fairly uncommon in GW games) and that the models look different than marines
How can they not be women inside a different suit of armour? And since when has the looks been the big issue here? If it's power armour, then it's power armour, and if it's a bolter, then it's a bolter. That's like saying I can't use a warlock model as a farseer, or Guardians as Dire Avengers (Guardians having DA heads and scoped catapults).


1 elite option (which really can't be represented by marine models anyways)
How can't Marines qualify as Celestians? Besides, Repentias are hardly worth taking.


Why play a pure Sisters of Battle army instead of marines if not for aesthetic purposes? What do Sisters of Battle have that marines don't, and then some?
Besides all the rules, you mean? Sisters have them up the wazoo.


You mean nearly all their equipment (handflamers and eviscerators being the only exeptions I can come up with)?
And hand flamer is easy enough to make from a normal SM flamer. Just cut the barrels out and attach the nozzle straight onto the body. Boom, a pistol size flamer. And if you look at the Repentia eviscerators, they're the same size as normal SM chainswords and look the same as well. So no changes needed there, really.


Look, I don't think OP if gonna go all the way on making every possible model out of Marine stuff, I feel like he's just looking for plastic alternatives. You can use IG command squad to make Inquisitor and retinue, SM Scouts or Cadians for Stormtroopers, etc. But lets face it, SM come with lots of stuff to make PA Sisters. Tactical Marines into Sisters, Assault Marines into Seraphims, Ironclad Dreadnought with a Repentia or something strapped to the front of it (the one who's holding the eviscerator over her head would make a nice model to chain on there the sarcophagus should go) as Penitent Engine, Razorbacks as Immolators, Whirlwinds as Exorcists, etc.

With simple changes a Marine can easily turn into a fine Sister model. Tabard, female head or a different helmet, like Bretonnian knight one, some bling, maybe Kroot shoulder pads instead of Marine ones, Ecclesiarchy symbol transfers, and right guns, and you're set. And at least you won't open the whole debate on having titties on everything, which seems to open up every time someone wants to make female Guard or something. This is anti-titties, this time we're hiding them under several layers of ceramite, like they should.

Deetwo
13-11-2009, 20:34
Admittedly I haven't played sisters, so I don't know exactly how faith points work, but do they really add so much that they're radically different from marines?

Definitely :) They add an additional resource than can be used to your benefit and is often gamechanging when used at a right time.


You mean nearly all their equipment

Well, it's imperial weaponry afterall, only makes sense much of it is the same. With the difference that faith points add a tactical dimension marines don't really have.

Also.. seraphim, celestians, canonesses, exorcists and immolators are quite unlike their marine equivalents.

Creeping Dementia
13-11-2009, 20:38
Admittedly I haven't played sisters, so I don't know exactly how faith points work, but do they really add so much that they're radically different from marine?

Ya they really do play differently, and a big part of that comes from faith. The playstyle that comes from their primarily close range firepower, and very selective boosts through faith (making Armor into invulns, making weapons rend for a turn, S and I boosts) means that the player has to be very judicious on when to temporarily enhance units to compensate for the weaker stat line. Faith budgeting and rationing are one of the things that make a Sisters player good. Also Seraphim are nothing like assault marines, they have Jump packs but thats where the similarities stop. Seraphim are used to tie units up and protect the other Sisters (using Faith to ensure the survival of the Seraphim), and then Hit and Run to leave the enemy open for the Sisters to eliminate. The offensive capabilities of the Seraphim are secondary to their tactical use.

I've never seen a Marine army played like a Sisters army, but a SW army heavy on Grey Hunters comes close.

JHZ
13-11-2009, 20:43
Also.. seraphim, celestians, canonesses, exorcists and immolators are quite unlike their marine equivalents.
Are we talking rules or models here? PA models with jump packs and dual pistols for seraphims, PA models with lots of special weapons for celestians, PA model with some bling as canones, Rhino with a missile launcher on top as Exorcist (have you seen the GW Exorcist?), Rhino with a twin-flamer/heavy bolter/whatever on top as Immolator. Boom! What else do you need?

Deetwo
13-11-2009, 20:45
Are we talking rules or models here?

Rules ofcourse. There's a clear distinction in gameplay between marines and sisters.

Purge the Heretic
13-11-2009, 20:58
I wouldn't have a problem with it, as long as it was more than just an inquisitorial paint job, I'd want to be able to tell right off the bat, that this isn't just another chapter of marines.

Justify it in fluff how you want, but if you are just using differently colored marines I say its a no go.

To those of you who have asked if faithpoints make a difference, yes, yes they do.

Faith becomes the driving focus of our army, it is how we kill you. We have a distinct lack of long range fire power, instead we get close and divine guidance flamer you to death.

that counts as AP 1 on a 6 to wound for those of you who don't know.

Faith also does nifty things like letting a squad of 10 sisters take out 5 terminators in CC as long as they survive the initial assault.

My preference in that particular example is to attack in initiative order the first round of CC (with divine guidance of course if I get enough hits to make it worth it), and in the second round give my squad a 3+ invulnerable and use hand of the emperor +2 str initiative 1 (again divine guided if I get enough hits.)

against assault termies, I just hope/bait them into assault with a squad that isn't full strength, so I can roll the invulnerable save right away.

Because of faith points, I can with luck take out these elite units with a normal troops choice.

Warp-Juicer
13-11-2009, 20:59
Pure aesthetics. It's like if I took SM models and used them as Renegade Marines, because I didn't like the silly backpacks and horned helmets. How does a pair of horns and a a different backpack make them CSM? How does using Cadians not allow me to use Death Korps rules?



Because Spartans would look silly when they're represented with Samurai models.

JHZ
13-11-2009, 21:00
Rules ofcourse. There's a clear distinction in gameplay between marines and sisters.
Ah, sorry, I thought you said something else, but clearly you were talking about the whole different rules Marines and Sisters have.

Don't forget the imaginifers, priests, loud hailers, blessed ammo/prometheum, combi-crossbow, brazier of holy fire, book of st. lucius, litanies of fate, mantle of ophelia, inferno pistol, blessed weapon, praesidium protectiva, etc.

Nehemiah
13-11-2009, 21:12
Like ceramite crafted into the shape of mammaries and high heels?

In the current range there are no sisters with high heels. The mammaries part is spot on though...

I would have no problem with it, but I would try to make them look more human because of the state difference between a sister and a marine. Or add it into the fluff of the army that they are humans in power armor rather than genetically modified bruisers.

Carraway Effect
13-11-2009, 21:13
Personally, if you placed a pile of tactical marines in front of me and told me they were sisters, I'd roll my eyes a bit, but I'd still play it, provided it's clear what's what on the table.

If you took the effort to kitbash together something that obviously says "Sisters of Battle" from a distance--even something as simple as some headswaps, a good paint scheme, and a few choice bits--I'd have no problem whatsoever.

As a Daemons player, trust me when I say I sympathize with the metal troop woes.

(Though you may want to go ahead and splurge on real Exorcists, if you've got the budget available. It's $10 more per tank, and the models are just beautiful with all the bas-relief frescoes and little details.)

zoggin-eck
13-11-2009, 22:19
Sounds fine to me, would be cool if you put in some effort to make them look different though.

Would they, in your mind actually be Space Marines, or just male soldiers fighting alongside witchunters?

I would go with unarmoured heads/cadian helmets etc. and maybe file down some of the armour and shoulder pads and so on.

Having said that, if someone wanted to simply use marine models, I really wouldn't mind, but if they were painted as an existing chapter then it's a little hard to swallow.

Ajamax5
13-11-2009, 23:02
Paint them as Lamenters, s3 t3 unluckiness. Faith representation I suppose you could throw a Librarian model in there?

fluffstalker
13-11-2009, 23:05
Like I say in so many of these poll threads, its your army, your money, its up to you. Couldnt care less if you use an orc army and said it was sisters rules. Maybe you like the models. Maybe your broke. The reasons arent important really- as long as it isnt a fancy tournament it only takes a minute or less to explain the oddities in your force and get the show on the road.

JHZ
13-11-2009, 23:50
As a Daemons player, trust me when I say I sympathize with the metal troop woes.
I don't. I loves my all metal daemonic legion.


Would they, in your mind actually be Space Marines, or just male soldiers fighting alongside witchunters?
Well, I don't know what's OP's real plan, but so far he said he didn't like the almost full metal aspect of a Sister army, so it's very likely that he just wants to use plastic models, but otherwise they'd be just normal Sisters.

And even if they weren't, you don't need any fluff hockupockus to explain them, they're just Frateris Templar. You know, the guys that the Sisters replaced when the Ecclesiarchy couldn't arm guys anymore.

Vanger
14-11-2009, 00:06
Let's clarify something. The idea of the BoB army isn't just plonking down ultramarines and saying that they are now using WH rules, but to create an army especialy with the WH rules and theme in mind, using plastic alternatives, in this case Space Marines, dismissing the fact that they are supposed to be female.

owen matthew
14-11-2009, 00:15
WYSIWYG every single model's weapons truely and faithfully, and I see no problem with it. I would also be careful to use simlarly ranked models to represent eachother. IE... HQ space marine represents HQ Sister and so on. Opponent confusion could be an issue. I'd play it.

Whitwort Stormbringer
14-11-2009, 00:19
Wouldn't bat an eye. Would be fun to see "marines" with powers of faith (or perhaps "combat tactics points" ;) ) and could be nifty to see a chapter like Salamanders rolling with a bunch of Immolators. :evilgrin:
That's a pretty good application of the rules, something I hadn't thought of!


Pure aesthetics. It's like if I took SM models and used them as Renegade Marines, because I didn't like the silly backpacks and horned helmets. How does a pair of horns and a a different backpack make them CSM? How does using Cadians not allow me to use Death Korps rules?

How can they not be women inside a different suit of armour? And since when has the looks been the big issue here? If it's power armour, then it's power armour, and if it's a bolter, then it's a bolter. That's like saying I can't use a warlock model as a farseer, or Guardians as Dire Avengers (Guardians having DA heads and scoped catapults).
I think we agree on basically everything that the other is saying, without realizing it. Of course the differences in Sister's gear is purely aesthetic, and if you're using marines as "counts as" sisters then you're obviously not doing it because you like the Sisters' aesthetic. I didn't say that they couldn't be women in a different suit of power armor, I'm just trying to understand the rationale behind the substitution. If aesthetics really aren't an issue, then what is it about the rules of a pure Sisters force that is so much more appealing than marines? That's kind of a rhetorical question, I don't really care for an answer as utlimately it's completely unimportant - the OP should make the army using whatever works best for him.


How can't Marines qualify as Celestians? Besides, Repentias are hardly worth taking.
Thanks for catching me on that, I'd forgotten Celestians. Marines could definitely fit that role.


Besides all the rules, you mean? Sisters have them up the wazoo.
I've played against sisters, and I guess they didn't strike me as all that much different from a marine. A little softer, more flamers, more of them, but basically marines. I mean several marine chapters have their own special units and rules at this point, Sisters feel almost like yet another extention of that.


And hand flamer is easy enough to make from a normal SM flamer. Just cut the barrels out and attach the nozzle straight onto the body. Boom, a pistol size flamer. And if you look at the Repentia eviscerators, they're the same size as normal SM chainswords and look the same as well. So no changes needed there, really.
Huh? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I wasn't indicating that these weapons would be a roadblock to the idea. Deetwo said that other than some weapons they're not much like marines, I was just pointing out that those are the only weapons they don't share with marines (to my knowledge).


Look, I don't think OP if gonna go all the way on making every possible model out of Marine stuff, I feel like he's just looking for plastic alternatives. You can use IG command squad to make Inquisitor and retinue, SM Scouts or Cadians for Stormtroopers, etc. But lets face it, SM come with lots of stuff to make PA Sisters. Tactical Marines into Sisters, Assault Marines into Seraphims, Ironclad Dreadnought with a Repentia or something strapped to the front of it (the one who's holding the eviscerator over her head would make a nice model to chain on there the sarcophagus should go) as Penitent Engine, Razorbacks as Immolators, Whirlwinds as Exorcists, etc.
Never said otherwise, or that I thought the OP was going to try to do the whole thing purely from marine models. All I asked was if the OP would be including some other witch hunters, or purely Sisters.



With simple changes a Marine can easily turn into a fine Sister model. Tabard, female head or a different helmet, like Bretonnian knight one, some bling, maybe Kroot shoulder pads instead of Marine ones, Ecclesiarchy symbol transfers, and right guns, and you're set. And at least you won't open the whole debate on having titties on everything, which seems to open up every time someone wants to make female Guard or something. This is anti-titties, this time we're hiding them under several layers of ceramite, like they should.
Sure, I said as much in my first post. I think converting marine models to Sisters is a great idea, but I do think that he should go ahead and paint/convert the models to look more like they're part of a witch hunters force than just run-of-the-mill marines.


Also.. seraphim, celestians, canonesses, exorcists and immolators are quite unlike their marine equivalents.
That's true, these characters are less dirct analogues than the standard sisters. If the OP really likes the way these units play then I certainly understand the impetus for the idea.

================================================== ================================================== ================

For clarity's sake, I'm not critical of the idea here. I'm more just explaining that, from my POV, at the point that you're playing a pure Sisters army with marine models for substitutes then you may as well just play marines instead.

Vanger's last post clarified it perfectly.

Dark_Templar
14-11-2009, 00:23
I have to say that I will start and SoB army as soon as they are released in plastic. Unfortunately, until then we are stuck with difficult converting, rigid models, or heavy compromise.

IcedAnimals
14-11-2009, 01:04
I say buy the sister models. Not because I can't see marines with faith. Or something silly. But because if you want to play sisters of battle support your army. Especially don't use marines. Show GW that there is support for sisters of battle so that we can get them to support the range more. The only way to do that is to buy the SoB minis, not "more marines"

Flypaper
14-11-2009, 01:32
I'm not seeing why you'd even need to run some form of alternate fluff. Sisters wear power armour, right? So here are these models in power armour, see, and they're actually female underneath those helmets and bulky chestplates. What's that, there's no boobs? Well, as it turns out, wearing heavy combat armour tends to obscure your figure a bit, and beating out a couple of bumps in your breastplate isn't actually all that utilitarian.

Paint on some fleurs-de-lys, and bingo, you've got Sisters. :p


Show GW that there is support for sisters of battle so that we can get them to support the range more. The only way to do that is to buy the SoB minis, not "more marines"Not really. Saying "I would buy a full army of Sisters of Battle models but I can't afford the metal kits, so your current policies are costing you sales" loudly enough would be just as effective, and in fact wouldn't send as much of a mixed message (if enough people buy the current range, there's no incentive for them to make a cheaper option - at least in GW's limited understanding of economics).

scarletsquig
14-11-2009, 01:55
I guess it could be okay as long as you put a couple of blobs of green stuff on the torso of each marine so people know that they're sisters.

IcedAnimals
14-11-2009, 04:23
I'm not seeing why you'd even need to run some form of alternate fluff. Sisters wear power armour, right? So here are these models in power armour, see, and they're actually female underneath those helmets and bulky chestplates. What's that, there's no boobs? Well, as it turns out, wearing heavy combat armour tends to obscure your figure a bit, and beating out a couple of bumps in your breastplate isn't actually all that utilitarian.

Paint on some fleurs-de-lys, and bingo, you've got Sisters. :p

Not really. Saying "I would buy a full army of Sisters of Battle models but I can't afford the metal kits, so your current policies are costing you sales" loudly enough would be just as effective, and in fact wouldn't send as much of a mixed message (if enough people buy the current range, there's no incentive for them to make a cheaper option - at least in GW's limited understanding of economics).

No it wouldn't. They will instead go "sisters of battle are not selling well. there is no need to update them push em back put up another space marine codex" they will support what sells. They wont support what doesnt sell in hopes of it selling.

Copella
14-11-2009, 04:32
I've since pulled the oversized weapon off, and haven't decided what kind of weapon to replace it with, but here:
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z283/Osaliske/40k/IMG_0190.jpg
Plastic Sisters. It's smaller than a normal marine, has the look of S3, T3, has the female look, yet still bad ass enough to put the beat down on enemies of the Emperor.

Link to the post: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3838974&postcount=25

JHZ
14-11-2009, 05:18
I guess it could be okay as long as you put a couple of blobs of green stuff on the torso of each marine so people know that they're sisters.
Oh, don't go there. I can assure you that the first thing people think of when they see Marines with breasts ain't gonna be "Sisters of Battle". And the second thing they gonna thing ain't gonna be very flattering either.

I've seen my fare share of "why female Space Marines" and "why do you want to slap tits on everything" discussions to know that the more subtle you can be about it, the better.


No it wouldn't. They will instead go "sisters of battle are not selling well. there is no need to update them push em back put up another space marine codex" they will support what sells. They wont support what doesnt sell in hopes of it selling.
And you know this... how? I mean, you hide under the coffee table at GW HQ and and overheard them say "Yeah, it sucks Sisters ain't sellin', doesn't make me wanna even try and make new models for them or anything." or something?

"If it ain't selling, stop selling it" marketing ideology is rather black and white to say the least. It's not like Orks were such a frikken hit that it made GW not only give them a new codex, but pretty plasticy range from top to bottom. Even plastic grots, not to forget the Stompa. Marines haven't even gotten their Thunderhawk yet!

You really think GW goes about their busines on day to day basis? They got their things sorted out years in advance, and the Sisters are getting their new stuff in due time, no amount of metal Sister models bought is gonna speed up the process. They gonna publish their next SM codex regardless.

IcedAnimals
14-11-2009, 05:35
I know that because that is basic marketing. especially during an economic down time. You stick with what you know works. You do not put more emphasis on something that isn't selling.

That is common sense. No "hiding under tables" needed.

madd0ct0r
14-11-2009, 05:57
hmmm.

if you're keeping them as 'sisters'

well, with a few head swaps through the force, tabards, those little 'I' symbols on a chain and a few Fluer-De-Lys, why not?

It could be a relativley young order that have had their armour provided by an inflexible forgeworld. It could be they're a crusading order (instead of garrisoning a Shrine World). They could simple be the Methodists to the Roman Catholics (Ornamentation is a sin). There's a thousand and one reasons possible.

OR

get bonus points and field them as a Ordo Xenos deathwatch force. Bit hard to explain the S3, T3 then though.

Murphy's law
14-11-2009, 09:53
I would have no problem with it allthough i think the S3 and T3 would be a bit odd.
But again, no problem.

I'm thinking about using my arbites/witchhunters with the space marines codex.

Karamazov: venerable dreadnought
Penitent Engines: dreadnoughts/iron clad dreadnoughts(even thinking about giving them very gothic looking drop pods built from 40k city-buildings)
Adeptus Arbites as scouts
"Counts as" Excorcists(rhino's in arbites colours with custome built rocket launcher) as whirlwinds.

I would like to try it because i think it could work really well.

Whitwort Stormbringer
14-11-2009, 20:54
I've since pulled the oversized weapon off, and haven't decided what kind of weapon to replace it with, but here:
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z283/Osaliske/40k/IMG_0190.jpg
Plastic Sisters. It's smaller than a normal marine, has the look of S3, T3, has the female look, yet still bad ass enough to put the beat down on enemies of the Emperor.

Link to the post: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3838974&postcount=25
Awesome figure! It would be a bit of a pain (and might not solve the money issue) to make an entire army of them, but still, looks really cool!

Bregalad
15-11-2009, 01:29
Well, to me (and judging from the poll, many others) it would be a direct hit to the face, when I expect to fight against one of the most characterful armies in 40k and then see the same old plastic Space Marines that everyone else fields. And all this just to save some money. I might get over the shock, but the disappointment stays. Such a waste. Such a shame. It's like being invited to an exquisite 5 star dinner and then getting some cheese burgers.

Copella
15-11-2009, 04:39
Lets not be so hasty now. Maybe there will be a lot of work with head swaps, tabards, and iconogy. If the OP is planning on just using out of the box SM stuff, than yeah, expect some odd looks and sighs. If your going to put the work on some conversions, and other things to make them "pop" out as being non-SM.
OP: Maybe you could give us a list of kits and bits you plan on using?

Vanger
15-11-2009, 10:04
Lets not be so hasty now. Maybe there will be a lot of work with head swaps, tabards, and iconogy. If the OP is planning on just using out of the box SM stuff, than yeah, expect some odd looks and sighs. If your going to put the work on some conversions, and other things to make them "pop" out as being non-SM.
OP: Maybe you could give us a list of kits and bits you plan on using?

First of all I would state, that I have no intetntion in making female marines. That's why I call the idea Brothers of Battle.
First of all, using SM as counts as Sisters is already hard to accept for some people, making them female marines, would be over the top (even for me).
And second, if I go the length, to make female marines, then there would be really no reason not to use the beautiful sister models.

But to answer the question, what I would use.

The idea is to use tabarded torsos and the chained to the hand bolters from the BT sprue. Shoulder plates would be made using plasticard, resembling more that of the shoulders of the sisters armour (instead of using the bulky SM pauldrons).
Ornamenation would be supplied by using purity seals, pergaments from the SM boxes, relics from the BT sprues and censers from the DA sprues.
The =I= symbols hanging from their belts would be made from green stuff.

I think that would capture the feeling of the sisters: religious, penitent and zealous.

First I tought of using the color scheme of Order of our Martyred Lady, but it would probably resemble Black Templars too much, so I think they will get that of order of the Sacred Rose and painted with white armor and red tabards.

For the Exorcist I plan to use whirlwinds, with immolator upgrades and the extra armor from the vindicator kit.

The only thing I haven't figured out yet, where to get wings for the seraphim, instead of thir jump packs. Wings of the eldar autarch or Baharoth are too high-tech, and the wings from the bretonn pegasi are to big imo.

Deetwo
15-11-2009, 10:09
The idea is to use tabarded torsos and the chained to the hand bolters from the BT sprue. Shoulder plates would be made using plasticard, resembling more that of the shoulders of the sisters armour (instead of using the bulky SM pauldrons).
Ornamenation would be supplied by using purity seals, pergaments from the SM boxes, relics from the BT sprues and censers from the DA sprues.
The =I= symbols hanging from their belts would be made from green stuff.

Really looking forward to pictures of the finished models.. Sounds amazing and very characterful.

Purge the Heretic
15-11-2009, 10:20
This sounds acceptable to me, For wings I'm pretty sure reaper or some other company sells packs of wings that aren't so big.

For cherubim maybe? I'll look.

angelic wings 1 (http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/wings/sku-down/03181)

Also if you just search for wings in their online store, most of the wings for the models shown on page 1-3 are sold seperately on pages 4-7

Bregalad
15-11-2009, 14:25
I still don't get it.
Your army will not be much cheaper than Sororitas, takes much more time to convert and will look like Black Templar and have their religious, penitent and zealous background. It will hit official background straight in the face (either as male church Marines or non-Grey inquisition marines). Adding feathered wings to Space Marines doesn't help. Can't see it competing visually with SoB and BT.

march10k
15-11-2009, 15:41
Why would you want to, I wouldnt have a problem with it, I just cant understand the point.

Seconded...I'd allow it...but what's the point? I guess this comes from the environment where 19 out of 20 armies are either completely unpainted or barely primed. If every army hitting the table were fully painted and based, I think the sheer pageantry of a sisters army would win out...but is there really any difference between a pile of gray metal models and a pile of gray plastic models?

Copella
15-11-2009, 16:03
I still don't get it.
Your army will not be much cheaper than Sororitas, takes much more time to convert and will look like Black Templar and have their religious, penitent and zealous background. It will hit official background straight in the face (either as male church Marines or non-Grey inquisition marines). Adding feathered wings to Space Marines doesn't help. Can't see it competing visually with SoB and BT.

I have to agree with this.
Going with the Order of the Scared Rose color scheme will help, but I don't know if it will be enough. As Brothers of Battle are acutally another name for Space marines.

Deetwo
15-11-2009, 16:03
but is there really any difference between a pile of gray metal models and a pile of gray plastic models?

Ease of conversions, for one.
The poses of most of the metal sisters make it practically impossible to do even simple head/weapon swaps.

Also, some people do enjoy making armies look different from the normal and add their own flavor. This is _exactly_ why "counts as" exists in the first place.
And while some people might just see the word Marine and think "meh, marine models are marine models, we got enough marine models" I do think the Sacred Rose paintscheme and extensive use of Ordo Hereticus heraldry would make them look drastically different, if done really well.

Copella
15-11-2009, 16:14
I think the main issue is, that using Marines (the most commonly seen army) to count as something different, just doesn't seperate them enough. It will still look like a marine army. Kind of like building a Khorne berzerker squad, than calling them SW Bloodclaws. You can do it, but you'll get the occasional odd look.
Either way, I'll reserve judgement till I actually see some pictures of a completed unit of this project.

@Vangar: Good luck with the project, hope you get some progress done soon.

Murphy's law
15-11-2009, 16:21
Well, to me (and judging from the poll, many others) it would be a direct hit to the face, when I expect to fight against one of the most characterful armies in 40k and then see the same old plastic Space Marines that everyone else fields. And all this just to save some money. I might get over the shock, but the disappointment stays. Such a waste. Such a shame. It's like being invited to an exquisite 5 star dinner and then getting some cheese burgers.

Come on, it's a GAME.:rolleyes:

madd0ct0r
15-11-2009, 17:40
Vanger -

would this be an entire army or allies in a space marine force?

for the latter I can see it, for the former, well, why remove some of the few female models in the game?

As sisters of battle in alt armour I'm fine with the idea.
As 'Brothers of Battle' I'd still play you, but it just seems a bit, well, odd.
Sisters can be converted. It's hard, but doable.