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tricker53
14-11-2009, 00:24
Lords
grey seer - screaming bell = 440

Heroes
plague priest - lv 2, plague censer, plague furnace = 301
plague priest - lv 2, plague censer = 151

Core
30 clanrats - standard, shields, warpfire thrower = 213
25 slaves = 50
25 slaves = 50

Special
27 plague monks - full command, storm banner = 264
7 plague censer bearers = 112
7 plague censer bearers = 112
7 plague censer bearers = 112

Rare
doomwheel = 150
doomwheel = 150

Total: 2105

im thinking for the non-furnace priest 2 scrolls; skalm and a power stone for the bell, and not sure about the last 45 pts on the furnace.

the idea is basically a solid block of rats with censer bearers either side, and doomwheels on the far ends of my deployment. furnace and bell go in the centre (furnace has 7 files and 6 ranks, bell has 5 files and 9 ranks), slaves either side of them and censer bearers further out again. the side closer to the furnace will have only 1 censer bearer unit, the other can have the other 2 and maybe the priest as well.

also pretty iffy about the lone warpfire thrower. . .

ReaperOfSouls
14-11-2009, 05:22
Not sure on the magic item selection, But I think for the furnace priest you probably want to pick up some ward save since he will be quite vulnerable to shooting. I also have some other points. Plague censer on a furnace is very, very dangerous to say the least. You will hit 15 of your own monks with it meaning between 2 and 3 dead on average (which equals losing out on 6 to 9 attacks!). In the best case scenario (enemy toughness 3, 20 mm bases) you can fit 5 of them to the furnace base and on average kill 2.5, giving you equal kills and deaths.

Then I'm not sure where the doomwheels are supposed to go? From your description it sounds you have the censer bearers towards the flanks of your formation and I assume the doom wheels go outside this? If this is the case it will be the censers who eat any stray lightning bolts before you close with the enemy, which could potentially be devastating. A single round of bad rolling could lead to a single doom wheel wiping out half of one of the censer bearer units in one go. Just something to think about.

tricker53
14-11-2009, 23:18
my local gaming club plays 2250 games on a 6'x4', so i should be able to keep the doomwheels outside of 18" of the censer bearers. havent got the book on me right now, but do doomwheels require LoS to zap?

thanks for the heads up with the censer on the furnace, ill change that to a flail right away.

EDIT: just ran the lengths; if i put my doomwheels on either end of the 6' of deployment, i get about 30" of 'safe' deployment space.

ok ive come up with a combination i think could work. for the bell its skalm, power stone, warp-energy condenser (hell be taking lore of ruin and possibly the 13th) and dispel scroll. for the furnace its foul pendant. for the other priest its warp scroll (should be able to skitterleap this guy fairly early in the game to get some march blocking and early casting of plague). oh and i changed both censers to flails.

Lord
Grey seer – bell, skalm, power stone, warp-energy condenser, dispel scroll = 535

Heroes
Plague priest – lv 2, flail, plague furnace, foul pendant = 319
Plague priest – lv 2, flail, warp scroll = 174

Core
30 clanrats – standard, shields, warpfire thrower = 213
25 slaves = 50
25 slaves = 50

Special
27 plague monks – full command, storm banner = 264
7 plague censer bearers = 112
7 plague censer bearers = 112
7 plague censer bearers = 112

Rare
Doomwheel = 150
Doomwheel = 150

Total: 2241

C&C most welcome.

Zarroc
15-11-2009, 09:47
133 models isnt very good in a skaven list, there spose to be a horde army......

Also as much as it seems cool to have both a plague furnace and screaming bell in a list, at 2250 i really dont think its viable

tricker53
16-11-2009, 21:36
tryed the list out with a few changes, as follows:

Lord
Grey seer – screaming bell, skalm, 2x power stone, dispel scroll = 535

Heroes
Plague priest – lv 2, flail, plague furnace, foul pendant = 319
Plague priest – lv 2, flail, warp scroll = 174

Core
30 clanrats – standard, shields, warpfire thrower = 213
30 slaves - musician = 62
30 slaves - musician = 62

Special
27 plague monks – full command, storm banner = 264
10 plague censer bearers = 160
10 plague censer bearers = 160

Rare
Doomwheel = 150
Doomwheel = 150

Total: 2249

and get this: it won against a daemon player. cant be that unviable. . .

i did manage to get the 13th spell off on the first turn though, but a fantastic slicing shards of slaanesh was also cast on my bell unit killing it outright (94 S5 hits iirc). even so, i won with more than half of my army still standing.

Zarroc
17-11-2009, 09:24
I would stay you got extremely lucky

tricker53
17-11-2009, 09:45
that player challenged me again today, and i beat him even worse. turns out i forgot about ringing the bell and MR2 on the bell/furnace units too in the first game. he never wouldve got that lucky slicing shards off if i remembered it.

those doomwheels are horribly underpriced. in the 2nd game it zapped the keeper and just killed it outright in 1 shot.

Killboss
18-11-2009, 05:07
First thing ihave to say a bout this list: ditch the slaves. They're pretty much useless. They do 2 things: Screen and die. They don't kill, and when they flee, they explode. Honestly, a musician is just.... a waste of points. Other then that, i think this is pretty good. You could probably give the Priets you want to skitter leap a PC so he can really take advantage of the awesome rear charge.

tricker53
21-11-2009, 10:42
main reason for the slaves is to fill min core. what else would you suggest?

Foegnasher
21-11-2009, 12:52
i hate to flame here.


bell AND plague death machine, AND 3 censers AND 2 doomwheels?

plus 3 wizards?

dude, that sucks. anybody with a cannon is going and some half decent shooting is going to torch this list. and noone is going to want to play you, it seriously smells of a WAAC list.

oh, and congrats on building the first -5 comp list. i've never seen one before.

oh, and also
"First thing ihave to say a bout this list: ditch the slaves. They're pretty much useless. They do 2 things: Screen and die. They don't kill, and when they flee, they explode. "

dont listen to this guy, he knows ZERO about skaven. slaves are the best thing since sliced bread. it just takes, you know, tactics, to use them.

Stumpy
21-11-2009, 13:01
For their points, slaves are one of the best if not the best unit in the game. I agree Foegnasher on all points.
You're just filling minimum core with skaven at 2250? That is pretty much just WAAC right there.

tricker53
22-11-2009, 08:15
sounds to me like youre suggesting i start from scratch. . . what fun. :cries:

i dont go to tournaments much, and my gaming club is pretty cut-throat (there are 3 or 4 daemon players, 2 dark elf players, 3 vampire players. . . out of about 20 regulars) so army comp is hardly an issue. i do want to cut down on the censer bearers, but besides that there really isnt much i want to change (possibly drop the power stones and take another scroll instead, and maybe 1 hellpit instead of a doomwheel).

Blueskies
22-11-2009, 11:50
I hope your not forgetting about the bolts on your doomwheel, you need to make a ld test to not shoot them, I get the feeling from your descriptions and the way that you dismiss your slaves, that you aren't using the slaves to absorb bolts which is why I thought you had them. If you place 2 doomwheels next to each other, they are likely to kill each other, fail ld test, and 3 bolts hits the neighbouring wheel and with d6 wounds probably blows it up. Most people wouldn't consider taking 2 wheels unless they had substantial fodder.

You seem to like censor bearers, and honestly I think greyseer + bell is a very expensive addition that adds little utility, if you want to spend a lot of points on a lord, just take lord skrolk and make a pest list, 3 units of monks, some censor bearers and plague cats, with furnace its a pretty solid and themed list.

Otherwise if you like your current list, I would sugest droping a wheel for an abomination drop the second plaguepriest to get the points, you really don't need skalm? I would sink some points into getting some jezzails or if it works out drop a unit of slaves plus add points in to get 10 nightrunners with warpgrinder so you can take out warmachines.

Foegnasher
22-11-2009, 14:49
sounds to me like youre suggesting i start from scratch. . . what fun. :cries:

i dont go to tournaments much, and my gaming club is pretty cut-throat (there are 3 or 4 daemon players, 2 dark elf players, 3 vampire players. . . out of about 20 regulars) so army comp is hardly an issue. i do want to cut down on the censer bearers, but besides that there really isnt much i want to change (possibly drop the power stones and take another scroll instead, and maybe 1 hellpit instead of a doomwheel).

ok, you want to hang with the demons. fair enough.

2 plague censer bearers (magic number is 6). 1 doomwheel, 1 warp lightning cannon. a unit of jezzails. lose the bell. more slaves and clanrats. add a bsb.

i understand you want to win, but if this is how you guys play... i'd have a come to jesus meeting about how the game is supposed to be fun.

SlaaneshSlave
22-11-2009, 18:42
2 plague censer bearers (magic number is 6).
Why 6? Seems too small to me. I like 10-ish.

tricker53
23-11-2009, 05:50
dont the censer bearers cause toughness tests on themselves as well? in other words 6=5. . . skaven maths is win.

@ blueskies

i play on a 6'x4' usually, so i can put the wheels on either flank and keep them outside of 18" of the rest of my army fairly well.

tricker53
23-11-2009, 06:31
ive taken to heart foegnashers suggestions, and changed the following. i have a feeling im going to cop some flak for 2 furnaces though, but besides that it seems to follow your guidelines.

Heroes
Plague priest – lv 2, plague furnace, flail, foul pendant = 319
Plague priest – lv 2, plague furnace, flail, warpscroll = 324
Chieftan – BSB, shield, halberd = 74
Warlock engineer – lv 2, warp-energy condenser, dispel scroll = 145

Core units
24 clanrats – standard, shields, warpfire thrower = 186
24 clanrats – musician, standard, shields, warpfire thrower = 190
20 slaves = 40
20 slaves = 40
20 slaves = 40
20 slaves = 40
20 slaves = 40

Special units
20 plague monks – full command, stormbanner = 215
20 plague monks – full command = 165
6 plague censer bearers = 96
6 plague censer bearers = 96

Rare units
Doomwheel = 150
Warp lighting cannon = 90

Total: 2250

BSB joins the clanrats with no muso, engineer joins the other.

the model counts has increased by 65 since the last attempt as well.

didnt include the jezzails simply because of the prescence of the stormbanner.

i crunched the numbers on $$$ as well, and this list sets me back a further $300 australian if i use proper slave models. . .

considering swapping the warlock, the warpscroll furnace and the 2nd monk unit for a grey seer and a unit of gutter runners for warmachine hunting.

Killboss
24-11-2009, 06:31
oh, and also
"First thing ihave to say a bout this list: ditch the slaves. They're pretty much useless. They do 2 things: Screen and die. They don't kill, and when they flee, they explode. "

dont listen to this guy, he knows ZERO about skaven. slaves are the best thing since sliced bread. it just takes, you know, tactics, to use them.

Ok, i will admitt that i could have phrased that better. I meant more along the lines of cut them down (as i've seen, 2 units of 20 is the way to go.) However, to say i know "ZERO" about them is quite offensive, and i'd like an apology if you don't mind.



Heroes
Plague priest – lv 2, plague furnace, flail, foul pendant = 319
Plague priest – lv 2, plague furnace, flail, warpscroll = 324
Chieftan – BSB, shield, halberd = 74
Warlock engineer – lv 2, warp-energy condenser, dispel scroll = 145

Core units
24 clanrats – standard, shields, warpfire thrower = 186
24 clanrats – musician, standard, shields, warpfire thrower = 190
20 slaves = 40
20 slaves = 40
20 slaves = 40
20 slaves = 40
20 slaves = 40

Special units
20 plague monks – full command, stormbanner = 215
20 plague monks – full command = 165
6 plague censer bearers = 96
6 plague censer bearers = 96

Rare units
Doomwheel = 150
Warp lighting cannon = 90

Total: 2250
considering swapping the warlock, the warpscroll furnace and the 2nd monk unit for a grey seer and a unit of gutter runners for warmachine hunting.

I'd do what you suggest, except, i'd get rid of a unit or so of slaves. Mainly because they clott up your DZ. However, if this is no problem for you, (because of you're large table) i'd stick with the origional idea, as i'd hate to advise dropping slaves whole heartedly, and be flamed for it...

Foegnasher
24-11-2009, 12:41
Ok, i will admitt that i could have phrased that better. I meant more along the lines of cut them down (as i've seen, 2 units of 20 is the way to go.) However, to say i know "ZERO" about them is quite offensive, and i'd like an apology if you don't mind.


buddy. read the book. the slaves only explode when they are beaten in CC. that means you can chargebait with them all day and never cause panic in your own units. in a army with no cav, this is invaluable. and even the explodeing is useful, because never again will you have a unit of 7 slaves rally in front of your battle line right when you needed something else to charge.

so yeah. i stand by my original statement.

Nu Fenix
24-11-2009, 14:03
Now now you two, move on before I call in Clan Eshin to solve the problem ;)

Now, I conmcur that five units of Slaves is too many. Even with charge baiting and battlefield manipulation, they will hinder your own army too much. I personally take the amount of Slaves needed to fill my minimum Core, and then take other Core to make the army effective. So in your list, you would have the three units of Slaves, which depending on terrain I would evenly space across the board.

As for your suggestion of swapping a Priest with Furnace & supporting unit of Plague Monks for a Grey Seer and some Gutter Runners, I like the idea.
As the Seer won't be riding a Bell, it means that the Furnace will be a big sign for your opponent to focus their attention on, or they will get hurt when it enters combat. You still have access to Lore of Plague if you wish, though depending on your rolls and your opponents army, ou can decide what split of Ruin vs Plague would be best.
Meanwhile the Gutter Runners can appear at the back of the opponents army and either prevent them from marching, go war machine/mage hunting, or even wipe out fleeing units by being in their path.

Killboss
25-11-2009, 00:42
buddy. read the book. the slaves only explode when they are beaten in CC. that means you can chargebait with them all day and never cause panic in your own units. in a army with no cav, this is invaluable. and even the explodeing is useful, because never again will you have a unit of 7 slaves rally in front of your battle line right when you needed something else to charge.

so yeah. i stand by my original statement.

I have read the book. I know they only explode in combat. I know its useful AND i know you can re-direct etc with them. However, 100 slaves is just too much.

And i'd still apreciate that apology.

tricker53
25-11-2009, 08:11
how does this sound then:

Lords
Grey seer – 2 dispel scrolls = 290

Heroes
Plague priest – lv 2, plague furnace, flail, foul pendant = 319
Chieftan – BSB, shield, halberd, storm banner = 124

Core units
24 clanrats – musician, standard, shields, warpfire thrower = 190
24 clanrats – musician, standard, shields, warpfire thrower = 190
20 slaves – musician = 42
20 slaves – musician = 42
20 slaves – musician = 42
20 slaves – musician = 42

Special units
34 plague monks – standard, champion, banner of verminous scurrying = 268
8 plague censer bearers = 128
8 plague censer bearers = 128
12 gutter runners – 2x snare net = 144

Rare units
Doomwheel = 150
Doomwheel = 150

Total: 2249

8 PD (+D3 warpstone tokens)
5 DD (+2 dispel scrolls)
197 models

Killboss
25-11-2009, 09:58
Yeah, that look pretty good. Maybe, the PCB have too many models in them... i hear the magic number is 6. The Banner of Verminous Scurrying is abit... Well you can't use it on the first turn, and by then you're 10" in anyway, and another 15" will probably just get you into something's charge range.

tricker53
26-11-2009, 02:19
ill be using the slaves as my frontline, so theyll be redirecting and whatever, and ive play-tested the banner of scurrying and it gets use, mainly cause of the slaves being there.

can i get some reasons why 6 is the magic number? when they get into combat 1 will die from the toughness tests, and then youre left with 5 which is pretty poor numbers. with 8, the average deaths from the toughness tests is still 1 death, leaving me with 7 PCBs which can maximise against the front of any ranked unit, and even the flank of some.

considering dropping another unit of slaves, the halberd of the BSB and the musos for skalm, swapping the ward on the furnace to warpscroll and rival hide talisman. currently the grey seer is a pretty easy target, and a 5+ ward isnt great on a model with only W2. plus hes unlikely to be targetted at long range, and rival hide can cover his CC (for one tur, but thats all he needs with that flail of his).

Killboss
26-11-2009, 04:51
I honstly don't know, but i just remember someone saying it was magic...

And yes, i'd ditch those for the Skalm. If you think the banner works for yuo, then go for it :)

tricker53
26-11-2009, 22:51
so then the modified list is:

Lords
Grey seer – 2 dispel scrolls, skalm = 320

Heroes
Plague priest – lv 2, plague furnace, flail, warpscroll, rival hide talisman = 339
Chieftan – BSB, shield, storm banner = 122

Core units
24 clanrats – musician, standard, shields, warpfire thrower = 190
24 clanrats – musician, standard, shields, warpfire thrower = 190
20 slaves = 40
20 slaves = 40
20 slaves = 40

Special units
34 plague monks – standard, champion, banner of verminous scurrying = 268
8 plague censer bearers = 128
8 plague censer bearers = 128
12 gutter runners – 2x snare net = 144

Rare units
Doomwheel = 150
Doomwheel = 150

Total: 2249

177 models
8 PD (+D3 warpstone tokens, +1 bound spell)
5 DD (+2 scrolls)

i picture my deployment like this:

wheel----------------slaves--slaves--slaves----------------wheel
---------------PCBs--BSB-----seer---furnace--PCBs---------------

warpfires go in the gaps between the slaves, maybe a couple of inches back, and deploy the grey seer's unit so it has LoS through the gap between the slaves units.

Killboss
27-11-2009, 00:47
That seems like a good plan. Best of luck (the list look pretty finished to me...)

Loki73
27-11-2009, 01:55
k, you want to hang with the demons. fair enough.

2 plague censer bearers (magic number is 6). 1 doomwheel, 1 warp lightning cannon. a unit of jezzails. lose the bell. more slaves and clanrats. add a bsb.

i understand you want to win, but if this is how you guys play... i'd have a come to jesus meeting about how the game is supposed to be fun.
__________________

Thanks glad someone thinks this way. I havent played with my Skaven in this edition. BUt I think horde is the way to go I do like your list ...toward OP. More dudes I say.

Foegnasher
27-11-2009, 02:48
Thanks glad someone thinks this way. I havent played with my Skaven in this edition. BUt I think horde is the way to go I do like your list ...toward OP. More dudes I say.

thanks Loki. as a lover of the skaven, i must say the minute i saw the book, i knew the lists that would be comeing out.

ever yday it's like., "yup, there's another guy who just bought the book." i will continue to swing the clue x 4 of skittery justice until they see. also showeing my batreps with hordes of mooks owning elite units will likewise help the cause.

more mooks, less toys.