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punkoteloco
15-11-2009, 23:51
Quick question, i dont have my rulebook with me, but lets suppose i field a Skaven Warlord with a RatOgre mount and i join a unit of stormvermin, can still use the Look out sir!!!! rule?

Thanks

punkoteloco

Necromancy Black
16-11-2009, 00:34
Quick question, i dont have my rulebook with me, but lets suppose i field a Skaven Warlord with a RatOgre mount and i join a unit of stormvermin, can still use the Look out sir!!!! rule?

Thanks

punkoteloco

1) the US of the Warlord on Rat Ogre must be less then 5.
2) the unit must have at least 5 rank and file models (non-characters, unit champions count as characters in this case)

As long as those are met you get's Look Out Sir!

But I think with 4 wounds a Rat Ogre mount is US4. Throw the Warlord on top and he's US5.

That means a) no Look Out Sir! and b) he can be singled out by shooting.

punkoteloco
16-11-2009, 00:36
Thanks a lot man!!!!

nosferatu1001
16-11-2009, 01:09
However unless he is a Large Trarget (it isnt) you can screen with other units in front of the warlords unit.....

BilboBaggins
17-11-2009, 02:15
I don't believe that Monsterous mounts are allowed to be in units and since they are large targets they would not get look out sir.

KillbotFactory
17-11-2009, 02:18
I don't believe that Monsterous mounts are allowed to be in units and since they are large targets they would not get look out sir.

Wrong on both counts. The question has already been answered correctly, no LoS because of the US5.

BilboBaggins
17-11-2009, 02:36
Page 58 BRB states MONSTERS (Monsterous Mounts too) CANNOT JOIN UNITS.


Page 75 BRB States If character/mount has a unit strength of US5 or higher it doesnt benefit from Look Out Sir.

Also it's not US5 it's 5 rank and file models to get look out sir.

Falkman
17-11-2009, 02:42
Page 58 BRB states monsters can't join units, except when they are ridden by characters.
Large target or not doesn't matter when it comes to singling him out, it's the US that matters.

KayazyAssassin
17-11-2009, 05:11
and the rat ogre mount says that it can join the units its limited to

nosferatu1001
17-11-2009, 10:56
Page 58 BRB states MONSTERS (Monsterous Mounts too) CANNOT JOIN UNITS.


Page 75 BRB States If character/mount has a unit strength of US5 or higher it doesnt benefit from Look Out Sir.

Also it's not US5 it's 5 rank and file models to get look out sir.

US5 matters for being picked out of a unit - a large, nonUS5 model could not be picked out of the unit even if they had LOS. In addition if you are US5 or more you can never benefit from LOS regardless of rank and file.

From your first pooint reading the whole rule would help, and in addition adding "monstrous mounts too" is called making stuff up ;)

BilboBaggins
17-11-2009, 12:39
US5 matters for being picked out of a unit - a large, nonUS5 model could not be picked out of the unit even if they had LOS. In addition if you are US5 or more you can never benefit from LOS regardless of rank and file.

From your first pooint reading the whole rule would help, and in addition adding "monstrous mounts too" is called making stuff up ;)

I goofed on the monsterous mounts, I'll admit I misread that.

Where I play I never seen anyone try to put a monsterous mount into a unit, it doesn't protect them in any way and makes them less effective.

EvC
17-11-2009, 12:45
You never saw anyone put Archaon (or any other Chaos character on a Daemonic Steed) in a unit of Chaos Knights in the Hordes of Chaos book?

BilboBaggins
17-11-2009, 12:55
I only saw Archaon in one game and that was during a SOC mega battle. He died before he could do much damage (I loved the rule that had him hitting himself).

Wolfshadow
17-11-2009, 14:15
Can I ask how people get that the rat ogre mount is US5?

He is a Monsterous mount so counts as US3(For being Ogre sized) +1 for the character being mounted on him.

Or have I missed something?

Atrahasis
17-11-2009, 14:28
Monstrous mounts are monsters (larger than ogre-sized) and have Unit Strength equal to starting wounds.

Rat Ogre mounts have 4w so are US4+1 for the rider.

Wolfshadow
17-11-2009, 14:37
Monstrous mounts are monsters (larger than ogre-sized) and have Unit Strength equal to starting wounds.

Rat Ogre mounts have 4w so are US4+1 for the rider.

But isn't the rat ogres Ogre sized?

Atrahasis
17-11-2009, 14:38
Rat Ogres are, but Rat Ogre Bonebreakers are monstrous mounts.

There are no provisions in the rules for any mount that is ogre-sized.

nosferatu1001
17-11-2009, 16:52
But isn't the rat ogres Ogre sized?

As Atrahasis said - you have cavalry mounts and monstrous mounts, you do not have anything in between.

EvC
17-11-2009, 17:01
If they had wanted such a Warlord to gain look out sir, they would have made the Bonebreaker 3 wound or put in a special rule allowing him to have it (Which I believe they did for one of the other mounts, despite the fact that would get look out sir either way). So, really, he's US5 and doesn't get look out sir. Nice!

Necromancy Black
17-11-2009, 22:04
But isn't the rat ogres Ogre sized?

Mounts have a very easy and specific rule when it comes to US.

If a mount has 1 wound it is a normal mount and the entire model is US1.
If it has 2 or more (although it might be more then 2, not 100% right now) it is a monstrous mount and it's US is equal to it's starting number of wounds, unless stated otherwise.

Basesize of mounts have nothing at all to do with US. If the RatOgre was on it's own then yes, it's basesize would say it was US3, but as a mount it's different.

Nurgling Chieftain
17-11-2009, 22:25
If a mount has 1 wound it is a normal mount and the entire model is US1.Uh, that's US2. You know that. ;)

Necromancy Black
18-11-2009, 01:05
Brain fail. You are of course right.

Lord Inquisitor
18-11-2009, 01:14
I seem to recall there was a proviso preventing flying mounts from joining units? Not relevant to the mounted rat ogre of course, just to bear in mind.

The most extreme example is a Necromancer on a Corpse Cart. Once on it, he can join a unit, and despite the massive size, is still US4 and therefore gets Look Out Sir!

EvC
18-11-2009, 10:04
Well, as the thread I made a month or so ago showed, the Necromancer gets the look out sir but the Corpse Cart itself suffers any hits it takes.

stashman
18-11-2009, 10:52
When WoC come out with all new and big cavalry mounts, I thougth all mounts, even big ones (except flyers) was going the same road.

Just to simplify the game mechanics.

If only the ratogre mount was a cavalry with 3 wounds instead...

Emissary
18-11-2009, 11:01
I seem to recall there was a proviso preventing flying mounts from joining units?

This is correct. Characters on flying creatures cannot join units (except via a special rule like the terradon mount/unit rule) and characters on chariots can only join units of chariots.

p72 of the rulebook

jaxom
18-11-2009, 16:06
If they had wanted such a Warlord to gain look out sir **AND REALIZED THAT HE WOULD NOT WITH RULES AS THEY WERE WRITTEN**, they would have made the Bonebreaker 3 wound or put in a special rule allowing him to have it (Which I believe they did for one of the other mounts, despite the fact that would get look out sir either way). So, really, he's US5 and doesn't get look out sir. Nice!

Fixed that for you.

I think (especially based on the rest of that paricular rulebook) assuming that the author was thoroughly familiar with WHFB rules would be a mistake. Even worse, given the way templates are being handled and the potential for some of these rules being a precuror of 8th Ed, it is possible that what we know about unit strength (of monstrous mounts or in general) and LoS may change to the point that this does not matter.

As it currently stands, like any non-flying mount a Warlord on Ogre can join a unit, is US5 and therefore can be picked out by shooting attacks provided they have Line of Sight to him and does not get Look Out, Sir because of his unit strength regardless of the number of models in the unit.

Lord Inquisitor
18-11-2009, 16:42
It is rather odd that the Rat Ogre Mount doesn't have 3 wounds like regular Rat Ogres in the first place.

This is how it is ... until they FAQ it.

EvC
18-11-2009, 20:24
Fixed that for you.

I think (especially based on the rest of that paricular rulebook) assuming that the author was thoroughly familiar with WHFB rules would be a mistake.

Except that as I also pointed out (that would be the massive whoosh you may have heard flying over your head as you were writing your reply), the author did bother going to the trouble of writing that one of the other mounts still allows look out sir, even though there was no need. So you can't suggest that the author wasn't aware of the rule. He might've forgotten though, sure.

Mad Makz
19-11-2009, 19:21
He doesn't get look out sir, but can flank enemy units. Fair exchange - especially as he can be shielded by other friendly units and is not a large target.