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Kurisu313
16-11-2009, 19:03
Hi there, I'm an old fantasy player looking to return from a long stint as a 40k player with the new skaven.

I'm trying to get used to the new rules, and am still very inexperienced.

I was wondering if someone can help me understand the pros and cons of the different weapon teams.

I like the looks of the ratling gun (more dakka, dammit!), but now that it needs to hit, people seem to be gravitating to the warpfire thrower instead. I can see that perhaps it's better against ranked infantry, but it strikes me that the ratling gun will do better against less dense units.

On top of that, the three new weapons are almost a complete mystery to me! I throw myself before warseer's collective knowledge, seeking advice.

AtmaTheWanderer
16-11-2009, 19:34
Ratling Gun: Solid against ranked infantry, rolling to hit and the new method in which it misfires has really reduced the power on this. Basically, you take it because it's cheap, but still good.

Warpfire Thrower: Really good against ranked units, and powerful against ogres/trolls/etc due to it's d3 wounds. Expensive, but one good hit can earn its points back quickly. Flaming attacks also kill regen, with a solid -2 armor save modifier for STR5. Template now hits everything it touches. These are pretty dang amazing now, while they were good before.

Doom-Flayer: With it's S3 impact hits and S4 -2 SV Art Die of hits, this adds some close combat power to clanrats, who otherwise don't do tremendously well in CC. It is the also the only weapon team with a decent armor value, and is relatively cheap. Requires a conversion piece at this time.

Warp-Grinder: You don't take this for combat, you take it to tunnel.

Poisoned Wind Mortar: Nastiness personified. Expect to see a lot of these on the table once people realize how survivable and good they are. Being able to move and shoot, as well as hide behind the parent unit and still draw LOS makes these a potential game-breaker. Very expensive in points, and requires a conversion.

Ξ H2O Ξ
16-11-2009, 19:38
^What he said. :)

Except:
Warp grinder: You don't take this for combat,
you take this to TUNNEL!

H2O

decker_cky
16-11-2009, 19:44
Pretty much agree. Ratling gun is a waste, warp grinder with a block of night runners is nasty, the other three are pretty nice depending on what you want for your list.

Jericho
16-11-2009, 19:53
I've seen the new Mortar used to good effect, but then again I've also seen them misfire and kill a dozen of the parent unit on the top of turn 1 :rolleyes: Most of the new war machines look fantastic, but you have to be willing to laugh at the horrible misfire results when things go bad (and they will ... frequently). The new trend towards no partial hits cuts both ways.

My buddy Steve says it best, "If you don't understand why using explosive force to shoot glass balls full of poison is potentially a bad idea, you're doing something wrong."

Anyway I'm very intrigued by the Doomflayer and the Warpfire Thrower personally. The Doomflayer is reasonably tough and provides some needed punch for certain units. While I like the idea of the Mortar, it sadly doesn't fit very well with the theme I'm thinking of pursuing with the army (freshly emerged from the tunnels, so nothing that wouldn't fit/be useful underground).

enygma7
16-11-2009, 22:29
The original post covered most of it but a few additions:

Ratling gun: actually, if you are going up against ranked infantry just take the warpfire thrower instead. Where the ratling gun is still good is against small units where a template won't get as many hits. Good targets are fast cavalry/flack and other low armour save cavalry and small elite infantry units like swordmasters. Anything in a line basically. A bit more niche than before but still useful.

Warpfire thrower: looks very powerful against large units and multi wound units.

Both of these two can stand and shoot. Sticking it next to the parent unit so the enemy has to duel charge it if they want to engage your infantry could be a nice trick.

Doom-flayer: a very good tool as it does its damage in combat and so combines well with the "mobile rank bonus" skaven infantry that has trouble killing anything so you can win combats. The snag is you have 1 wound, T3 and a 3+ save so its important that you get to do your attacks first, so maybe not great against ASF/high elves.

Mortar: Looking to be one of the most popular teams. Long range means you can start using it straight off. Ingore armour saves is very nice. You can fire from behind the parent unit making it more durable than the other teams.

Warp grinder: a pricy way of deploying a unit with a 1 in 6 chance of killing it more or less. Good for fun but I'm not convinced it is competetive.

Creamster
16-11-2009, 22:43
I think ratlings still have a place. Skaven lack a good way to kill march blockers in their lines and these look to be key. Plus with the amount of large targets floating around nowadays.

I think placing them behind their unit will be key. It will stop enemies from landing / flanking behind and with carefully movement of the parent unit they could fire to either side or in front. Plus they can still see large targets.

To get their points you need them to be firing 2-3 turns, but protecting flanks is still worth 55 points in my book.

Blueskies
16-11-2009, 22:58
The warpgrinder shouldn't be discarded, any tunnelling/ambush abilities always have a chance to go the wrong way, otherwise everyone would always take them. 10 nightrunners with a warpgrinder isn't terribly expensive, and as long as you don't get a misfire the most you can scatter is 10 inches and you have a 12 inch charge, so place the marker near those warmachines , if you scatter into the middle of the field, you might even get to flank charge one of their units.... negate ranks, +2 combat res... that means a lot if you got a clan rat unit with 3 ranks, banner and outnumber already able to charge from the front. the D3 str 4 hit isn't terrible either of course. My gripe with the warpgrinder is actually it's lack of availability only one night runner unit and half your gutterrunner, so at best in a 2k game you can get 3 tunneling teams. I wouldn't do that unless you wanted an eshin themed army, but one tunneling unit of gutters and a tunneling unit of nights aren't a bad addition to the utility of any skaven army and gives you some war machine canceling abilities.

Prince Sairion
17-11-2009, 21:45
Personally I think the poison wind mortar (pwm) is the nastiest thing to be added to the skaven list. Move AND fire, does'nt have to directly see the target (while the parent unit is sat on a hill and the mortar behind it!!!) and allows no armour save at all.

Pity you can only feasibly take four of these in core, four more in special and two rare catapults with a similar effect. That for me would be the Skaven Army of Doom, if you can guess ranges. . .

stashman
17-11-2009, 22:34
Can a character join a weapon team? From the skaven book:

"After this the weapon team is free to move and counts as a normal unit for all purposes (victory points etc.)"

So I can join with a BSB and stay close to the "parent" unit to recieve wardsave from missle and magic missiles???

ScytheSwathe
17-11-2009, 22:39
As far as i can tell he can. My logic was any spare hero choices get filled with naked engineers, for XX point ablative wounds. Not that i expect any spare hero choices

JimmyFrank
17-11-2009, 23:21
With regards to the mortar, I've found 6 poisoned wind globadiers (for 5pts cheaper),has dealt out alot more punishment. I suppose that all depends on how many special slots you have to spare though