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hendybadger
17-11-2009, 09:32
I am in the process of building 2 armies.
Daemonhunters and Tyranids.
After looking at some FW models for them I wondered if they are worth it?
How often are Apoc games played?
Are the models worth the cost?

dblaz3r
17-11-2009, 09:44
I think they are worth it just to have and paint, lots of lovely models. :D
The group I play with frequently play apoc so they'd definitely get a fair bit of use, especially now that they all have multiple titans, flyers etc. I suppose it all depends on what your particular group are into, if you have one.

Abbo
17-11-2009, 09:47
This depends on your local gaming group, I personally play apoc every couple of weeks sometimes even two in a weekend,

I own a Baneblade and i love it, its never let me down thus far, definatly worth the 60 i paid for it, Each superheavy has its own use and only you can say weather its worth the cost to you.

in my opinion a GW baneblade is best for dh and im not sure for tyranids.

havokas
17-11-2009, 10:26
if you enjoy modeling and painting they are worth it for that alone, apoc games are alot of fun expecially when you make up your own senarios and stray away from the books a tad.

your question "how often are apoc games played?" depends on you, how often you can organise one and how often you have the time to play them, because they do go for longer than other games.

nids have some fantastic models but the pictures on the site dont give justice to the scale of them, they are bigger. if you were getting a superheavy tank like a shadowsword for your deamonhunters you'd probly rather go with the normal plastic kit because you can test all 6 varients out to see what works best with your other models
resin is often though of hard to work with but it really isint coplicate just a bit more care when first assembling.

genestealer_baldric
17-11-2009, 10:40
Unfortunaltey its oposite for me i have most big nid gribblys but i only get one of or twogames of apocalyspe a year if iam lucky.

So yeah if you know they will get use get them, no one likes a hierophant in the face.

Karhedron
17-11-2009, 10:44
I only get to play ahortish games once a week in the evening (1500-2000 points). This means Apocalypse and super-heavies are off the menu for me. A shame as I think they would be great fun but I have enough other stuff to paint.

hendybadger
17-11-2009, 10:50
I think I have played around 2 Apoc games this year?

pookie
17-11-2009, 11:58
why not keep the FW ones you got for the Nids for a start?

Onisuzume
17-11-2009, 12:38
Well, Super-Heavies aren't apoc only...
Any game of 2000+ points will do.
You don't even need your opponent's permission to use them at those points.

hendybadger
17-11-2009, 12:42
But it is nice to ask them. Or let them know before hand

Onisuzume
17-11-2009, 12:55
Well, that's mostly the case with flyers since not nearly all armies can take them on with ease. Whereas super-heavies (and gargantuan creatures) are generally much easier to deal with regardless of the army. And then there's super-heavy flyers...

Rick Blaine
17-11-2009, 13:26
How often are Apoc games played?
That's something you should be asking your local gaming group, not random people on the internet.

Are the models worth the cost?
Plastic GW superheavies, very yes. Both as gorgeous kits and for their game value. Forgeworld, no. Resin is a pain to work with and Forgeworld's casting quality is... erratic at best.

hendybadger
17-11-2009, 13:57
You can say that again. I need a curved LR for the doors to fit.

I was just wondering how often others played Apoc

Onisuzume
17-11-2009, 14:02
Did you try putting those doors in warm water and bend them back into shape?

hendybadger
17-11-2009, 14:08
Im going to give it a go but havent got round to it yet

Dr Zoidberg
17-11-2009, 14:22
Having just got back into the hobby after a ten-year hiatus, I think my missus is still getting used to the idea of having models of any sort around the place - let alone something the size of a Super Heavy.

That said though, a Super Heavy of some description is definitely on the cards for my new IG army... eventually.

ChrisMurray
17-11-2009, 14:43
Just for the look and visual impact of super heavies, I believe they are worth the cost. I have never played a game of 40k but once my World eaters get to 2k I'll be rewarding myself with a brass scorpion or blood slaughterer.

It depends really if thats what you want to spend your hard earned cash on.

laudarkul
18-11-2009, 12:00
Those models worth it. Especially if are painted and assembled by you. Ok you may use it only a couple of time per year, but those models definitely looks awesome on the display case:).

hendybadger
18-11-2009, 12:16
I dont have anywhere to display them though.

The Orange
18-11-2009, 14:46
As I see it superheavies are usually more of display pieces then game pieces. Its up to the player if they'll use it more often then not, but I've always seen their value being in fun projects and "Wow" display pieces, and not game pieces. Note: I don't actually have any, and I wouldn't say that is the exact same case with the large plastic kits from GW (baneblade). You really only have yourself to look at to warrant if a superheavy is worth it or not, but IMO if your only getting it to play with I'm not sure the cost is worth it (conversions and kit bashes are always a good alternative).

hendybadger
18-11-2009, 14:52
I may look into doing something like that then

unheilig
18-11-2009, 18:54
the group i play with only likes apocalypse games.


superheavies are glorious. amazing models, and put out the hurt in a game.

Murphy's law
18-11-2009, 19:22
Well, Super-Heavies aren't apoc only...
Any game of 2000+ points will do.
You don't even need your opponent's permission to use them at those points.

This is not true.
If you want to use superheavies in 40K you MUST ask your oponent.
Don't mather if you play 2000, 20.000 or 200.000 points.

Jellicoe
18-11-2009, 21:04
prior to apocalypse I would have said that unless you were a hard core modeller/painter then the answer, especially with the FW stuff, was no.

Apocalypse has put a whole new complexion on things. I am always a sucker for large games irrespective of whether I am playing historicals or 40k. A well balanced well planned and well played Apocalypse match is brilliant fun and super heavies have their part to play here in setting the piece off. I have a couple of Forgeworld Hierodules and a Trygon (Hierophant is planned but will require some gentle work on Mrs. Jellicoe beforehand). I have found that gargantuan creatures do not dominate as much as a structure pointed superheavy as some concentrated heavy weapons can generally take them down in a few turns. A Baneblade is a rather tougher proposition altogether.

Courtesy alone however would say that you ask an opponent prior to use of a super heavy irrespective of whether it is a normal or apocalypse game

TrooperTino
18-11-2009, 21:08
Are they really worth it gamewise? (is gamewise a word?)

I have never seen one in action but everytime I think about it... they are big targets... don't have better armour than my russ. Iff they die can take half your army with them :)
can lose more than one structure point through a hit.

I would like to build and paint one as a centerpiece for my guard anyway ;)

Jellicoe
18-11-2009, 21:28
They tend to be fire magnets but can dish out an enormous amount of punishment in return. If you plan your apocalypse games well and keep the 'only troops score' rule this can force some tactics and takes some of the focus away from a simple super heavy duel

grissom2006
18-11-2009, 21:35
I am in the process of building 2 armies.
Daemonhunters and Tyranids.
After looking at some FW models for them I wondered if they are worth it?
How often are Apoc games played?
Are the models worth the cost?

Only you can say how often the games are played for Apocolypse i play them twice weekly. Some only play Apocolypse once in a blue moon.

Are they worth it do you like big expensive things that kill loads of stuff or go horribly wrong but still give you enjoyment and a laugh the yes they are.

Necro Angelo
18-11-2009, 21:36
mind you, I met a guy yesturday who claimed to have bought a thunderhawk, dumped it in a bucket of paint (his words) gave up space marines shortly afterwards and now it sits somewhere in the loft. well at least it'll be something for the grandkids.:rolleyes:

the bottomline is, when you pay lots of money for a model, you get what you make of it.

hendybadger
18-11-2009, 21:50
I wonder if he was telling the truth

BigBadBull
18-11-2009, 22:17
And when they go Booom! they tend to take a ton out , both friend or Foe...

Fun times had by all , esp when a titan goes down......

Murphy's law
18-11-2009, 23:12
mind you, I met a guy yesturday who claimed to have bought a thunderhawk, dumped it in a bucket of paint (his words) gave up space marines shortly afterwards and now it sits somewhere in the loft. well at least it'll be something for the grandkids.:rolleyes:

the bottomline is, when you pay lots of money for a model, you get what you make of it.

I know a guy who started dark angels but never came to finish painting more then a terminator chaplain. He has a Thunderhawk aswell. Gave it a basecoat and dropped the hobby.
Unfortunately he ain't selling it. That's bad and makes me kinda sad.

Grimbad
19-11-2009, 01:13
Almost all of my superheavy experience comes from orks. I've got several scratchbuilt stompas, all of them were worth it even if because they were dirt cheap to make, even though I started long before Apocalypse came out. All of them were a joy to build. The Games Workshop stompa is much larger and much more restrictive (anything is more restricted than the vehicle design rules) but converting it was still a joy and the Kustom Stompa rules in White Dwarf are great fun.

Tyranids are another story. The forgeworld models are things of beauty, lots of detail, also very breakable, especially the hierophant with its thin legs. I've got a trygon and hierodule left behind by my brother who quit, they're great models. I've also got an Armorcast tyranid Exocrine, which honestly I like better than either of them. Being a single, solid piece of resin, it's a lot less fragile and a lot easier to assemble, and while there's a loss of customization, I really do like the model as-is.

Guard, I don't know. I haven't got any superheavies yet. I might end up scratchbuilding the original baneblade from that ancient white dwarf and using it with VDR as a 'light superheavy' for small games.

So, thus far, I've found all my superheavies to be well worth it.

havokas
19-11-2009, 01:43
Well, Super-Heavies aren't apoc only...
Any game of 2000+ points will do.
You don't even need your opponent's permission to use them at those points.

i heard from a deamon player who had no reason to be lying that in games over 2000 points he can take ag'anwrath. it was in some pdf or suplement thing. so it may be true what youve said. anyone know?

RCgothic
19-11-2009, 01:57
A titan deployed at the front lines might as well not have void shields. Autocannons/krak missiles will strip them so fast you'll miss it if you blink, and then a few anti-titan weapons later it's game over.

However, deploy more than 48" away from the enemy, and then the anti-titan weapons splash harmlessly off the shields and you might as well be invincible.

The bigger the board, the more superheavies dominate it. My baneblade and two titans are always worth it on the battlefield. They're a joy to assemble and paint as well.

Dribble Joy
19-11-2009, 02:02
Some of the super heavies are completely broken too, especially the titans with various weapon options that aren't priced. Why take a megabolter when you can have a turbo laser?
Warhounds with a pair of the latter could easily take on a 'normal' 3k apoc. army alone.

The Warlord and Emperor class are even worse.

Writerski7
19-11-2009, 02:27
I know there's forgeworld rules for deploying Thunderhawk gunships in regular games of 40K (see Imperial Armor 2 update). If you can field one of those suckers then you should be able to field ag'anwrath . . .

meatbyproducts
19-11-2009, 14:42
Some players, like myself, are HUGH into apoc games. I have about 500 of them under my belt (yes 500). I have been playing large scale 40K for a while and with the new APOC addons I am in love. I have more super heavies then many clubs and always getting more. I also LOVE massive armies, and have a few. 44,000 points in IG, 33,000 (or so) in orks, 23,000 in Spave Wolves, 12500 in Tau, 12000 in DE (some is my Wytch cult), I also have tons of other armies but those are my big ones I have lots of forces at 2-5k. So in conclusion... IF oyu have the right people to play with super heavies are important and can be a ton of fun, also they draw lots of fire from other things that can be more deadly say 72 LeMann Russ tanks...

hendybadger
19-11-2009, 14:51
Thats an insane amount of points. All finished and painted? How long you been collecting them?

Inquisitor_Tolheim
19-11-2009, 16:55
Just to restate what's already been said: from a gaming perspective you really ought to ask your gaming group how much you'll be playing apocalypse.

My opinion: Only buy them if you like them as a display piece, and consider using them in apocalypse games a possible bonus. The models are gorgeous (particularly the forgeworld ones, don't let the haters bring you down. :) ) and make extremely striking centerpieces to any army display. If you look at one and say "wow, I would love to build and paint that!" then it's worth picking up. If your first thought is "I wonder how it would perform on the tabletop?" Then you would likely be better off spending the equivalent amount of money on GW standard models.

meatbyproducts
19-11-2009, 19:01
Thats an insane amount of points. All finished and painted? How long you been collecting them?

80% build and out of that it varies on how much is painted as I strip things all the time (like my whole SW army got stripped reacnetly when I was home on leave from Afghanistan)

My orks are 99% built and 90% painted to a so so table top standard as I am nearing 1000 boys and I hate painting them now LOL.

As for Forgeworld peices I never regret a single FW model as they get lots of love care and attention. I see one I want I will get it. I am going to buy the FW blood thirster and I do nto even play Khorne... I am going to build a bunch of blood thirsters and an ANgron to play with but it will start with my love for the FW angroth as that is a Sexy ********* model.

Onisuzume
23-11-2009, 15:43
i heard from a deamon player who had no reason to be lying that in games over 2000 points he can take ag'anwrath. it was in some pdf or suplement thing. so it may be true what youve said. anyone know?
Its printed in Imperial Armour: Volume 2 as well...
Black on white, page 7 (can be used in any game you want) and page 240 (Super-Heavy Vehicles appendix).

Besides, an eldar player doesn't have to ask permission to use his avatar either, right? And we all know that a craftworld has only one avatar...

LonelyPath
23-11-2009, 17:00
Its printed in Imperial Armour: Volume 2 as well...
Black on white, page 7 (can be used in any game you want) and page 240 (Super-Heavy Vehicles appendix).

Besides, an eldar player doesn't have to ask permission to use his avatar either, right? And we all know that a craftworld has only one avatar...

An avatar is in Codex: Eldar and is a part of the core game, the IA books are optional additions and anything taken from them really should be mentioned to your opponent first and they have every right to say no to anything in your roster taken from FW.

Onisuzume
23-11-2009, 20:51
Then I'll slap page 7 of the aforementioned volume in their face which explicitely states that your opponent has no right to refuse it unless it is a flyer, which not all armies can counter.

Quote: Imperial Armour: Volume Two page 7 section 2 (Using this book) paragraph 3 & 4.

The rules included here are (like the vehicles they cover) mostly variants of the codex versions. A Predator is still a Predator whether it is a Mark III, IV or V, and the Codex rules apply. From my feedback it seems players have no difficulty in including these Imperial Armour model variants in their games, it is only when it comes to new vehicles that problems of 'legality' or 'official-dom' occur. The very idea that some vehicles are 'legal' and some are not seems odd to me. All the vehicles within this book exist in the 41st millenium, they are deployed to do battle against the Emperor's foes. It is not a case of legality, it is an actualoty! Generally, players should not pick and choose what equipment their opponent can and can't use. The idea that an Ork Warboss or Eldar Farseer can somehow object to the Land Raider Helios or Tarantula sentry guns is strange.

In the past we have advised players to seek their opponent's permission, but this seems an unsatisfactionary solution. Of course you need your opponents permission to play any game, unless you intend tp force people to play you! Eldar players don't feel they need permission to field their Avatar, although each Craftworld has just one, only awoken in direst need. Using thia 'opponent's permission' system I believe that too often players object, feeling that their opponent is getting an unfair advantage, which is actually nonsense. By all means ask permission, but how different is this to organising any game? Your opponent is, by agreeing to play you, giving you permission to use your miniatures collection.

blackroyal
23-11-2009, 22:35
At that point I will calmly state that we are clearly playing two different games. If you tell me before we play that you are using something IA, I will most likely be all about it. If you tell me as we pull out models, I will be less than happy and probably decline to play you.

*OT*
I have a Baneblade and am happy that my guard army has one. I would like Tyranid monsters, but they are too expensive for me to justify owning. It comes down to will you be happy owning whatever super-heavy? If yes... then buy it.

wangaratta wolf lord
24-11-2009, 04:15
i have two stompas a gargantuan squiggoth and a fights-bomma for my ork army and always love the chance to use them on the battlefield. My friends and I usually play 5000 to 8000pts a side with games taking about 9 hours to play. Sure I have to go up against a few super heavies as well (brass scorpion, chaos warhound titan and a chaos baneblade), but i always look forward to the challenge....even if orks stuggle against all that armour :)