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View Full Version : Is this "Enemy in the way" legal



TowerGuard
18-11-2009, 14:34
Ok so in my last game (High Elves (me) vs Dark Elves) we ran across a strange situation that I hope you guys can help clarify. Here's my attempt at a diagram:

-----------CCCCCC


----------------------HHHHH

----------------DDDDDD



--------------BT

A unit of COKs (C) attempt to charge my DPs (D). There are harpies (H) 1" away in front of my DPs but not covering the whole frontage. My Bolt Thrower is behind and to the left of my DPs.

Now if the COKs charge my DPs and I flee, should
A) the COK run into my BT since in order to get to my DPs after they flee they would have to use their one wheel to go around the harpies and cannot wheel again so the would go straight into my BT?
Or
B) Since their one wheel during the charge to get around the harpies would now not point them at the fleeing DPs they instead run right into the harpies and the charge is failed?

wilsongrahams
18-11-2009, 14:48
Your diagram may not be perfect as in your example, they would not wheel to face either as the DP's would flee directly away ant the COKs would pursue towards them and not clip either the Harpies or the Bolt Thrower, however from the description, it seems to imply that they would encounter the Harpies during the pursuit and so instead of counting as a failed charge they would declare a new charge against the Harpies and engage them.

I may be wrong as it really depends upon precise positioning which is impossible in text!

arachnid
18-11-2009, 14:49
in a pursuit the charger aligns and follows in the direction of the charged unit's Ending position. IIRC.

Fleeing happens in a straght line from the charging unit, regardless of alignment previous to the charge.

That means the flee would be diagonal and knights should clear both harpies and rbt. (and be set up for a juicy flank shot to boot)

If you had held and been overrun instead the knight should have clipped (or close to) the rbt in the overrun move, since they would be moving straight downwards after being aligned to the dp's original position.



*Pinch of salt* im still a bit of a greenhorn, so if i'm off on something, pray tell. :)

edit: dang sniped!

wilsongrahams
18-11-2009, 15:01
Yup, though I did read the Harpies as being your unit for some reason and said the COKs would charge them - but either way the chargers miss both in the diagram as said.

TowerGuard
18-11-2009, 15:56
Let me be more specific:

Before my DPs flee:
-----------CCCCCC



---------------------HHHHH

----------------DDDDDD



--------------BT




After my DP flee:
-----------CCCCCC



---------------------HHHHH





--------------BT

--------------------------DDDDDD


The COKs cannot go straight because a unit of harpies is right in front of them and they can only get around them by wheeling.


So according to the rules do they charge my BT because the COK had to wheel to get around the harpies and they can only wheel once?
A)




---------------------HHHHH




------CCCCCC
--------------BT

--------------------------DDDDDD

Or since wheeling around the harpies does not allow them to pursue the DPs, they can only stop at the harpies on their way to the DPs.
B)



------------------CCCCCC
---------------------HHHHH





--------------BT

--------------------------DDDDDD

wilsongrahams
18-11-2009, 16:09
They charge the Harpies as they attempt to wheel and pursue the fleeing LINE OF D's, but during the pursue they encounter the Harpies and count as charging - make the free align wheel as needed to bring maximum models into the fight.

jaxom
18-11-2009, 16:11
Go reread the rules on pursuit. They differ from the rules on charges. Most specifically they do not allow a wheel at all.

Two sentences. Turn to face center-to-center on the fleeing unit. Chase the fleeing unit. You'll bump into the harpies as you show in B.

This is *particularly* important when using skirmishers as screening units because it is important to note that if the skirmishers flee the charging unit does not get to move and wheel freely to contact the nearest skirmisher (like the would on a charge). They follow the same old pursuit rules and turn to face the center of the unit (not even the closest model) and move straight at the fleeing skirmishers.

wilsongrahams
18-11-2009, 16:16
Sorry, I shouldn't have used the word pursue as that implies a pursuit after the combat - I meant just continuing the charge after the fleeing unit but encountering the Harpies as I said.

Lord Dan
18-11-2009, 16:37
Sorry, I shouldn't have used the word pursue as that implies a pursuit after the combat - I meant just continuing the charge after the fleeing unit but encountering the Harpies as I said.

Except the harpies are on the same side as the CoK. ...so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't count as a charge. ;)

Kalandros
18-11-2009, 16:49
Enemy in the way is in a straigth line between the path of the fleeing unit and the charger.

Thus he will fail his charge on the harpies, causing no harm to either unit but allowing you a possible flank shot~

TowerGuard
18-11-2009, 18:25
jaxom, Kalandros,
I'll definitely reread the section on pursuit. I always thought it was under the same guidelines as charging.

Anyways, thanks for the responses from everyone. It only confirmed more what I thought was correct.

TheDarkDaff
19-11-2009, 08:18
This is *particularly* important when using skirmishers as screening units because it is important to note that if the skirmishers flee the charging unit does not get to move and wheel freely to contact the nearest skirmisher (like the would on a charge). They follow the same old pursuit rules and turn to face the center of the unit (not even the closest model) and move straight at the fleeing skirmishers.
The BRB FAQ disagrees with you. Fleeing skirmishers move the closest visible model directly away from the centre of the charging unit and all other models in the skirmishing unit flee in that direction and should stay in the exact same formation they were in before.


Q. How do skirmishers flee exactly (this may be important for determining if they have to flee through enemies or impassable terrain)?
A. If the skirmishers are fleeing from a combat the situation is easy, as they are treated exactly as a normal ranked up unit. If they aren't, the situation may get a bit more complicated. First, the closest visible skirmisher flees directly away from the centre of the charging unit by the distance rolled. Then, every other fleeing skirmisher is moved by the same distance along the same (parallel) direction as the first, trying to keep the skirmishing unit as much as possible in the same formation, as shown in the diagram below.

jaxom
19-11-2009, 15:51
The BRB FAQ disagrees with you. Fleeing skirmishers move the closest visible model directly away from the centre of the charging unit and all other models in the skirmishing unit flee in that direction and should stay in the exact same formation they were in before.

Note that the question asked and the answer provided have nothing to do with how the skirmishers move. You are absolutely correct about what the FAQ says about the skirmishers. Reread the OP and my response.

No matter how the Skirmishers flee, nothing in the rules or the FAQ makes pursuing fleeing skirmishers different from pursuing other fleeing troops and therefore all special allowances like the ability to take your wheel on a charge to determine your facing when aligning to a unit of skirmishers is out the window. Further, you do *not* pursue the closest visible model like you would for a charge per the FAQ. You pursue fleeing skirmishers center to center just like any other fleeing unit.

TheDarkDaff
19-11-2009, 16:11
Note that the question asked and the answer provided have nothing to do with how the skirmishers move. You are absolutely correct about what the FAQ says about the skirmishers. Reread the OP and my response.

No matter how the Skirmishers flee, nothing in the rules or the FAQ makes pursuing fleeing skirmishers different from pursuing other fleeing troops and therefore all special allowances like the ability to take your wheel on a charge to determine your facing when aligning to a unit of skirmishers is out the window. Further, you do *not* pursue the closest visible model like you would for a charge per the FAQ. You pursue fleeing skirmishers center to center just like any other fleeing unit.

Sorry about that, you are entirely correct. Move the skirmishers like in the FAQ then the charging unit has to go move centre to centre with the new position of the skirmishers without being able to wheel.