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View Full Version : To "Turtle" or Not to "Turtle"? (with gobbos)



happybounce
19-11-2009, 04:03
In the classic warhammer fashion, I thought of a playing style/tactic that was "undefeatable" and meant I was a theoretical warhammer TACTICAL GENIUS!

GET THIS YOU GUYS: I keep all my army close together, then my biggest hardest unit goes in the middle and has the general AND the standard bearer! Yeah!

. . . apparently this is called "turtling". Tourney players favor it because of the formation's defensive nature, but it has a number of disadvantages.

I'm not worried about panic tests (my banner lets me re-roll failed ones), but I am now second-guessing this tactic. Does anyone have any experience/opinions playing with/against the "turtle" formation? Particularly with regard to gobbos?

Dageo
19-11-2009, 04:16
BSB only allows rerolls of break tests, not panic. Unless your talking about some magic banner? Sticking your goblin units really close together means that the opponent needs fewer units to set off more fanatics at a time (come within 8" with 2+ units at the same time).

It also means panic will spread like wildfire when your goblins inevitably break of combat (not good with LD 5, maybe 6 if the general is nearby).

Also, anyone using extensive "turtling" (I think you mean the same thing as a "phalanx"?), will get flanked alot if the terrain is against you.

happybounce
19-11-2009, 05:20
You're right about the banner, we have a magic one that lets us re-roll failed panic tests (which is very helpful when playing gobbos!). The general's leadership is an 8, so with 8 leadership, re-rollable break tests and re-rollable panic tests the army is fairly durable . . . for goblins.

I am kind of worried about flanking, especially since my fast cavalry is not the most reliable. To compensate, I plan to keep one flank relatively (8-12") close to a board edge, and protect the other flank with reliable units like chariots and a unit of ogres, but I'm not sure this will work! I definetly think that the outflanking issue is the most severe. Any ideas? Some of my fast cavalry (spider riders) can go through difficult terrain, so maybe that helps.

Toads77
19-11-2009, 05:49
The biggest problem with turtling with my goblins is that if im so close to the edge one terror test and i'll flee off the board pretty easy.

happybounce
19-11-2009, 07:24
The biggest problem with turtling with my goblins is that if im so close to the edge one terror test and i'll flee off the board pretty easy.

Hmm, and the way I set up, my back 2 units are right against the rear board edge. A dragon flying 20" and dropping in front of my whole army might just be the game . . . but then again if I pass the terror tests, he's got a whole army of gobbos, fanatics and sneaky tricks to contend with!

WORTH THE RISK???

Rolo Ramone
19-11-2009, 11:04
You are playing with goblins. OF COURSE it worth the risk. If you want a super-über army, play daemons instead.

EvC
19-11-2009, 13:18
As long as you set up 2" from the front a Dragon can't plonk down in terror range turn 1, and this buys you at least one turn to hopefully shoot him, or at least keep him scared. If he wants to get there he'll need to take on all the fanatics released anyway.

Da GoBBo
19-11-2009, 20:47
Hehe, the "big an hard" unit of gobbo's in your center made me laugh. Thanks.

Playing O&G is like playing chess ... Well, playing warhammer is like playing chess. You try to find out where your opponent wants to be and you make sure it's damn inconvenient for said opponent to be there. You can also lure the enemy by placing tasty bits in a certain plays. You choose to go turtle, and you are afraid you might get outflanked. In fact, it is what you are most afraid of. So, you make sure your opponent does not want to place those usually faster and thus expensive units on the flank. Don't put fanatics in the units in your center, but give them to smaller units on the flank. Indeed, put some chariots there. It's not a question of can i hold this flank. Any flank can be overrun (unless its a big block plaguebearers with a herald or grave guard with a banner and onther banner and 4 vampires, that sort of stuff) so cower your opponent in not engaging it all. You now know something else, besides being threatening, your flank has to be fast in order to catch up later (chariots and Ogres), or cheap, so you can just them to conquer a table quarter (goblins), or be able to help out without getting that close to the real fight (night goblins with fanatics).

To this last one I want to add that fanatics on the flank is allways a good choice. If they are released too early, they are easy to get rid of straight away or you can hope for some lucky break and have them circle around to the rear and strike from behind (this rarely happens, which is sad). At least they are away from the bulk of your army. If they cower your opponent into going elsewhere you are good. Ones the bulk is engaged you can pop em (through your own army) to dish out a lot of damage and have them end up behind enemy lines, where they should be. In the lucky though unlikely event you might break en enemy unit, they flee through em and are thus instantly killed (does that go for fleeing through fanatics as well?).

Personally I don't think your flanks will be the big problem. If you direct attention away from your flanks, it will go towards the centre. This is good if you are a chaos warrior, but not so nice if you are a bunch of goblins. How are you going to make your centre endure? Big blocks with nets, that is for sure. 30-40 I would say. Probably no less than 40. With a big boss?. Perhaps one big block of squigs (18 squigs, 12 goblins)? I haven't used them yet. Take 2? I just don't know about them. They fight very well but are to easy to kill, not really an anvil unit.
I have doubts about this working. Even with all the banners, there is a good chance your centre will run through.

This means you must soften up what comes your way to engage the centre and reduce CR as much as possible. Warmachines are not an option I think. You want chariots and squigs. You should not rely on magic to do this damage, but it is a nice bonus if spells do get through. So what is left to do ranged damage? Fast cavalry? Might work, if you have lots. 6x5 riders should be able to put a dent in couple of units before the clash.

I havn't got a clue if any of this even has a chance of working. Its goblins we are talking about. Most valid tactics allways seems to aim for a lot of mayhem and hope for the best :) When I want to play tactics, i take orcs (yes, that is possible). I'm definitly gone try it out though. Good luck with your goblin turtle.

edit: On the dragon thing. Chariot impact hits allways go to the dragon. Bit of a gamble with low leadership, but something worth remembering.

Rodman49
19-11-2009, 22:04
Template weapons will **** in your cereal.

EvC
19-11-2009, 23:09
As will having to take any form of psychology test. Arg.

Tenken
21-11-2009, 03:17
You will learn to fear salamanders. Str 3 flame template with -3 armor save and panic test if any model dies from it. Yes, you will fail that re-rollable 8 eventually.

Templates in general will be your undoing as it can just hit a huge mess of goblins all the time. So just be careful of them, and kill them if you can.

snottlebocket
21-11-2009, 09:53
Giants help goblins a lot, especially turtling goblins. Stick a giant halfway up the table behind some terrain and leave it there. It can't get shot, it probably can't get charged and anyone advancing on your army will need to pass a terror causing giant and deal with it. (well either that or move on and expose their flank / rear to the giant)

If you don't go overboard on magic or fanatics (which are overrated anyway except as charge blockers) you can easily take 2 giants and still have a sizeable goblin army. A tagteam of giants on the table spells trouble, especially with a horde of hooting goblins well behind them manning the boltthrowers, catapults and loony lobbers.