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Louis21
17-05-2005, 20:32
Please comment this list, and its weaknes:D, thanks.

2000 Pts - Bretonnia Army
Bretonnian Lord
General; Lance; Morningstar; Heavy Armour; Shield; Knightly Vow
Virtue of Discipline
Sword of Heroes
Gromril Great Helm
Warhorse

Paladin Battle Standard Bearer
Heavy Armour; Battle Standard Bearer; Knightly Vow
Virtue of Noble Disdain
Warhorse

Paladin
Heavy Armour; Knightly Vow
Virtue of Empathy
Enchanted Shield
Sword of Might

Damsel of the Lady
Magic Level 2
Icon of Quenelles
Dispel Scroll
Warhorse

Damsel of the Lady
Magic Level 2
Potion Sacre
Dispel Scroll

7 Knights of the Realm
Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Barding; Knightly Vow
War Banner
Warhorse

23 Men-at-Arms
Halberd; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
Yeoman Warden

24 Men-at-Arms
Halberd; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
Yeoman Warden

24 Men-at-Arms
Halberd; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
Yeoman Warden

16 Peasant Bowmen Skirmishers
Longbow; Standard; Musician
Villein

16 Peasant Bowmen
Longbow; Standard; Musician
Villein

5 Mounted Yeomen
Spear; Bow; Shield; Fast Cavalry
Warhorse

5 Mounted Yeomen
Spear; Bow; Shield; Fast Cavalry
Warhorse

2 x Field Trebuchet (Yeoma Craftsman in both)



Casting Pool: 6

Dispel Pool: 4

Models in Army: 133


Total Army Cost: 1988

Louis21
19-05-2005, 19:23
Can anyone comment this list, I`m interesting about Yours opinion about this roster. Thanks.

Sgt John Keel
19-05-2005, 20:55
Are both the Lord and the BSB going in the KotR unit? That would be quite a few points in one unit.

Otherwise, I like it. I've always dreamt of such an army.

/Adrian

Louis21
20-05-2005, 08:07
I agree, but BSB with Virtue of Noble Disdain, immune Knights from panic tests taken from shoting. Maybe on foot with Virtue of Empathy BSB can be better?

Sariel
20-05-2005, 12:33
Well, couple of comments:

1) I'd go with 2 units of 10 normal archers with no command. Deploying 16 archers is going to be a pain. That and I'd drop the villeins - I like rolling lots of dice, and havin a single BS4 model just ain't worth the points, imho.

2) Drop a Paladin, and get more Knights. 3 units of 6 with musicians, perhaps?
Thing is, right now, with your BSB, your General and a standard in just ONE unit, you can expect the other guy to throw everything he has at it. Take it out, and you've suddenly got an army with a Ld of 5-6 and pretty low stats.

3 units of KotR spread that Ld 8 out pretty nicely, and make you a lot less vulnerable.

Louis21
20-05-2005, 20:23
Maybe something like that (I make some changes):

1 Bretonnian Lord 210 Pts
General; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Knightly Vow
Virtue of Noble Disdain
Gromril Great Helm
Sword of Might
Warhorse

1 Paladin Battle Standard Bearer 84 Pts
Heavy Armour; Battle Standard Bearer; Knightly Vow
Virtue of Empathy
Warhorse

1 Damsel of the Lady 140 Pts
Magic Level 2
Dispel Scroll
Warhorse

1 Damsel of the Lady 140 Pts
Magic Level 2
Dispel Scroll
Warhorse

7 Knights of the Realm 192 Pts
Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Barding; Knightly Vov
Warhorse

8 Knights Errant 201 Pts
Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Barding; Knightly Vow
Errantry Banner
Warhorse

9 Knights Errant 201 Pts
Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Barding; Knightly Vow
Warhorse

24 Men-at-Arms 147 Pts
Halberd; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
Yeoman Warden

24 Men-at-Arms 147 Pts
Halberd; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
Yeoman Warden

24 Men-at-Arms 147 Pts
Halberd; Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician
Yeoman Warden

10 Peasant Bowmen 60 Pts
Longbow

10 Peasant Bowmen Skirmishers 70 Pts
Longbow

5 Mounted Yeomen 80 Pts
Spear; Bow; Shield; Fast Cavalry
Warhorse

2x Field Trebuchet


Casting Pool: 6

Dispel Pool: 4

Models in Army: 133


Total Army Cost: 1999

Sariel
20-05-2005, 21:40
Looks much better..

Errants are nice, but I'd still go with (fewer) Knights of the Realm - spread them out so that nice healthy Ld 8 covers your entire army.

I might nitpick with the magic items/virtues, but it looks pretty solid. Not incredibly nasty, but a nice balanced army with a pretty good chance against most opponents.

Personally, I'd go with something like:

Lord, lance, shield, Virtue of Knightly Temper, Tress of Isoulde
Paladin BSB, Virtue of Noble Disdain
2 Lvl 2 Damsels on foot, 1 scroll each

8 Knights of the Realm, musician
6 Knights of the Realm, musician
6 Knights of the Realm, musician

3 units of 24 Men at Arms, musician, standard
2 units of 12 archers
15 skirmishing archers, standard

6 mounted yeomen, shields, musicians

2 Trebuchets

149 models, 6 power dice, 4 dispel dice
3 units of ranked infantry
1 unit of ranked cavalry
2 units of support cavalry
12-37 (depending on deployment) S3 longbow shots a turn
6 S3 bow shots a turn

Rough game plan:

Lord goes with the unit of 8 Knights - this is the closest thing you have to a hammer unit.
Paladin goes with the mounted yeomen - fast flankers, war machine hunters. He gives the a banner and some additional hitting power, they give him numbers.
Damsels hide in a forest or hang out with the archers or something...

The 2 smaller units of Knights hold back behind the peasants, inspiring them with their leadership. That's the reason why I dropped the Yeomen Wardens and Craftsmen.

Louis21
21-05-2005, 15:02
Thanks:D. I think about that army, I must assemble something like this above, all cavalry army were very boring to play:) for long time...

gortexgunnerson
21-05-2005, 16:31
I think the army lacks focus if played with 3 units of knights. I like the first list better, however agree that the command groups are a bit of a waste.

If you have 3 units of knights and lots of Men at arms peasents etc then you have a 2 speed army where niether is particulary strong. You lack knights and strength in numbers! I feel the second list is caught in a middle ground and wills suffer a death against shooting or combat based armies.

I would go for the first list but I would drop the ladies to Lv 1 as most 2000 point armies will just cancel your magic phase out. Take the standards off the archers units, they are easy points to your opponent. Spend the points on more Archers to force your oppenet to advance into your line where you can mob with large units and provide punch with the unit of knights.

More skirmished archers would be good.

This is my opinion as a Brettonian oppenent not as player as have never used them! So feel feel to disagree or ignore the comments above but I have scored 100% record against Brettonians with a number of different armies. The games which gave me trouble is when the army was applied with focus as their is too much of something to hold back against it. More mixed armies such as the second list I genereally engaged the knights and skirmishers with missile fire and magic before engaging in close combat where they where hidously outnumbered before advancing on the peasent/Man at arms line .

Sariel
21-05-2005, 19:05
If you have 3 units of knights and lots of Men at arms peasents etc then you have a 2 speed army where niether is particulary strong. You lack knights and strength in numbers! I feel the second list is caught in a middle ground and wills suffer a death against shooting or combat based armies.=


This IS a shooty army of sorts. Especially with 2 trebuchets and 30+ arrow shots. Trouble is, with a peasant army, you're either going to go the heavy magic (14-16 power dice) route, a peasant horde (in which case you really need multiple units of Knights) or a semi-shooty army.



I would go for the first list but I would drop the ladies to Lv 1 as most 2000 point armies will just cancel your magic phase out. Take the standards off the archers units, they are easy points to your opponent. Spend the points on more Archers to force your oppenet to advance into your line where you can mob with large units and provide punch with the unit of knights.


1) 2 lvl 2s means you'll probably be casting 2 spells on 3 power dice a turn. Assuming the average is 2 scroll caddies in most armies, that means 4 dispel dice and 2-4 scrolls....... If its a magic-heavy Skaven/Orc list... well, you're toast anyway. Does'nt matter what you take without completely reworking the list.

2) Bret peasant standards NEVER give away VP. If you have the points, there's no reason not to take them. Especially if you luck out with deployment and put your archers on a hill, in which case they have a decent chance against light cavalry... 1 rank, standard, hill+light cav looses charge bonus? Yeah... very nice.

Heck. Small units of standard (ie non Chaos/Inner Circle Knights) might well fluff it if they charge archers... Using Empire Knights as a baseline, they're going to be S3 I3, so you roll off. Again, assuming 6 knights with a musician charge the archers, that's 12 S3 attacks that hit on 3s and wound on 4s. Call it 8 hits, 4 wounds.

4 wounds + outnumber - 1 rank+banner (+ mebbe a hill) = archers loose by 2 or 3. 5s to break - not great, but not a complete loss either, especially if there's a BSB close by.

3) More archers are nice. Definitely. Trouble is, its a fine line between numbers (ie big infantry blocks), deployment space (archers take up a lot of frontage if you don't have hills) and number of shots.




More skirmished archers would be good.


OH MY YES. Especially since you can also buy a standard and musician for them. 21 BS3 archers with longbows for a mere 147 points? Yeah... On the other hand, it tends to get opponents annoyed.....


More mixed armies such as the second list I genereally engaged the knights and skirmishers with missile fire and magic before engaging in close combat where they where hidously outnumbered before advancing on the peasent/Man at arms line .

Back to that 2-speed army comment. Imho, this army would force the other guy to come to you. With the amount of shooting he has, he has no business advancing. Not with anything serious, at any rate....

Light cav (and possibly the big unit of Knights with general) would move up to harass and threaten. Same thing with the skirmishing archers ... maybe. Archers and men-at-arms hold back and wait, with smaller Knight units ready to countercharge.

One advantage of a Bret lance - with a frontage of 3, they can fit through gaps in your battle line that enemy heavy cav can't fit through.... archers in front on the 12" mark, men at arms and knights behind to countercharge.....

gortexgunnerson
22-05-2005, 12:43
Cheers for the heads up on some of the rules Sariel. Peasent bowmen are looking better and better.

Some good comments (and more likely much more insightful then mine as it looks like you actually play brettonians)! Think the final touches to the army will come from how the orginal posters group generally play, I generally use High Elves or Dwarfs and it has probably squewed my opinion due to the high levels of shooting. With the rules about peasent bowmen not giving VP I agree that the idea of leaving knights back as pseudo genereals should be affective and also gives a counter to attacks

Sariel
22-05-2005, 17:31
With the rules about peasent bowmen not giving VP I agree that the idea of leaving knights back as pseudo genereals should be affective and also gives a counter to attacks

Yeah.. I do. Not as much as I'd like, since folks around here would rather NOT play Brets in a pick-up game - they've got a bad rep for some reason... ;)

That being said, peasant archers are pretty good. If nothing else, you have the option of putting down 3 or 4 minimum-sized units of 10 archers each (worth 60 points with nothing) before you have to start worrying about your heavy stuff.

Also, just to make things very clear, loosing a standard from a peasant unit does'nt give an opponent an extra 100 VP - he still gets the points for a unit that is destroyed. Not that it's WORTH very much...

samw
27-05-2005, 02:56
If you're doing a peasant horde I would recommend a few things:

1) it's a ranged army, so go mucho-magico and use that extra hero slot, prophetess, three damsels, BSB with virtue of empathy (effectively a second general) and warbanner.

2) a grail reliquary! stubborn, keep it near your BSB and you're in business.

Make them come to you, march block with yeomen, rain rocky and magical death on them, and have small units of commandless KotR to flank once the enemy hit your lines and get stuck on stakes etc. That's how the peasant horde works.