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View Full Version : Non-military lifestyles... also, Tau space travel



Blink
19-11-2009, 10:17
Almost every bit I've read from the imperium makes it seem like there are NO good places to live. It seems EVERYTHING is militarized to the point of oppression and that's the whole of everyone's life, day and night. Are there ANY even slightly more pleasant living conditions for anyone in ANY of the races?

And for the imperial forces, what's the overall goal here? JUST to listen to what the Emperor wants and survival? Has the grim darkness affected everyone so much that happiness is no longer something to even hope for?

And also for the Tau, I know they consider the opportunity cost to be far too steep to mess with the warp and most of their territory is close together, but how does their space travel work to even be efficient as it is? Even if the planets are somewhat close, the travel time would still be extremely significant unless they have something that can at least approach light speed.

Lord Damocles
19-11-2009, 10:21
Sure there are 'good' places to live (relatively at least). There are paradise worlds withint he Imperium, there's the spire sections of hives, there are even just the standard leafy suburbs, you could even live out your life perfectly happily and peacefully as a grox farmer on a nice temperate agri world. Depending on what you class as 'good', even life in a hive city is something to aspire to.

Clockwork-Knight
19-11-2009, 10:32
And also for the Tau, I know they consider the opportunity cost to be far too steep to mess with the warp and most of their territory is close together, but how does their space travel work to even be efficient as it is? Even if the planets are somewhat close, the travel time would still be extremely significant unless they have something that can at least approach light speed.According to Battlefleet Gothic Armada, Tau gravity drives can approach up to 1/3 warp speed reliably. That's fast enough, and although slower (warp travel is so weird, sometimes, you arrive your destination in seconds, other times, you arrive 10'000 years too late - blame those warp gribblies and all that emotion for that), makes it that they can at least manage their star cluster efficiently. The rest works like in the Imperium. Just as there are sectors with primary worlds, there are septs that oversee several colony worlds, and everything's working autonomous whenever possible.

Obyri
19-11-2009, 10:53
Prandium was what was called as a garden world if i remember correctly. in other words a paradise tourist spot. _ YES i know it got eaten by the nids, but before that it was a lovely place to live.

Gudrun in abnetts works sounds like a nice place apart from the odd chaos cult uprising (out in the country) or daemon summoning (again out in the country) or mercanary assault (in the mountains this time) It's described (to me) as a facsimilie of earth but with hover- bikes and other suck futuristicy stuff.

You have to appreciate that in the vastness of the galaxy a large percentage of people will probably live on a bog-standard imperial world (not so distant from present day earth) living their lives and working happily, perhaps in a slightly more totalitarian state but hey-ho. It is only because the focus of 40K is on war and horror ( and homo-erotic adonis's in blue power armour wrestling with "red hot" alien gods) that all you hear about is.......... ahem war and horror, and death worlds, and daemons and unknowable alien species that want nothing more to make you into a rug.

So as someone else said, think of all those agri worlds, where yeah you work in the fields but it's still just a farmers life.

If things were as truley bad for the human race as is portrayed in regards to alien advances and chaos incursions then no way would we have lasted the last 10,000 years.

Col. Dash
19-11-2009, 11:08
Peaceful and pretty places dont make the books. "Private Snuffy woke at the crack of noon. He put on his uniform and turned on his GW-Pod, grabbed his push broom, and walked out onto the spaceport landing field passing the Tiki Hut he spent most of the night before. He started at one corner and started pushing the broom across the quiet spaceport. Nothing was expected to land this week, just like the week before." Get the idea, might be the start of a McHail's Navy in space episode, but not really dark enough for a BL book.

malika
19-11-2009, 11:22
You might want to check out the Anargo Sector Project. Sure it's a fan project, but we've tried to create an entire Imperial sector in full detail, also including the civilian aspects of life. Proving that there is more in the 40k universe than just constant warfare.

Obyri
19-11-2009, 11:35
You might want to check out the Anargo Sector Project. Sure it's a fan project, but we've tried to create an entire Imperial sector in full detail, also including the civilian aspects of life. Proving that there is more in the 40k universe than just constant warfare.

Shamefull plugging there.... just kidding. :)

@ Col. Dash: if you look at your little story of Pvt Snuffy in a certain way i actually feel a little grim: especially " Nothing was expected to land this week, just like the week before "

Remember the ways of chaos are many and gribbly, boredom can be as sure a path to damnation as betrayel and tele-sales.

Blink
19-11-2009, 11:41
You might want to check out the Anargo Sector Project. Sure it's a fan project, but we've tried to create an entire Imperial sector in full detail, also including the civilian aspects of life. Proving that there is more in the 40k universe than just constant warfare.

... http://anargo-sector.net/explore/imperium/

Yeah... that's helpful. ;p

malika
19-11-2009, 11:45
http://anargo-sector.net/explore/organisations/commercial_organisations.php
http://anargo-sector.net/explore/organisations/imperial_guilds.php
http://anargo-sector.net/explore/organisations/noble_houses.php
http://anargo-sector.net/explore/organisations/imperial.php

http://anargo-sector.net/explore/sector_ui.php

And of course the forum (http://anargo-sector.net/community/). ;)

Blink
19-11-2009, 11:51
Anyway, I'd always imagined the Tau would have the best lifestyle because they're more interesting in the ambition of advancement than war... Sadly enough, geographically they're going to get one hell of a Tyranid invasion soon.

Good to know it's not all depressing Hive Cities and military work-horsing. It's just after reading some of the field manual and the other book (motivational something or other), almost anything will get you flogged or shot (even the way you look) and it all seems to undermine any point of living other than to kill bug, ork, and themselves... I'm also wondering what retirement is like for anyone... a bullet to the head is retirement?

Sceleris
19-11-2009, 11:53
Some of the Inquisitor based novels have some decent stuff about "everyday" people since these don't (usually) involved full scale warfare. The Eisenhorn trilogy and Scourge the Heretic are both pretty good in that vein.

Blink
19-11-2009, 12:01
http://anargo-sector.net/explore/organisations/commercial_organisations.php
http://anargo-sector.net/explore/organisations/imperial_guilds.php
http://anargo-sector.net/explore/organisations/noble_houses.php
http://anargo-sector.net/explore/organisations/imperial.php

http://anargo-sector.net/explore/sector_ui.php


What a pleasant site to dick around in.

malika
19-11-2009, 13:49
The site still needs a whole lot of work, the stuff you've seen on there were just the bare beginnings. Shamefully the peeps responsible for working on the site have kinda quit.

Karhedron
19-11-2009, 14:09
I believe the majority of worlds in the Imperium are classified as Civilised. Whilst the definition is open to debate I think it is reasonable to assume that such worlds would be OK places to live. People grow up, get married, get a job and have kids and nothing much happens. Hive worlds, death worlds and planets in the path of massive alien invasions are naturally more interesting to write about.

Taxes/tithes go the imperium but our taxes go to the government so not much difference. Regiments get raised for the Imperial Guard but that does not necessarily mean conscription or coersion. Plenty of people sign up for military service voluntarily in the real world. There is not much in the way of democracy, freedom of speech or religous expression.

But then the cynical might argue we don't get much of those either. ;)

Idaan
19-11-2009, 14:19
For a source with much larger degree of canon, but somewhat lacking in details, have a read about the Calixis Sector, the setting of Dark Heresy. There is a state of constant war on 6 out of its 180 worlds, three of these being anti-Imperial uprisings, two uncleansable Ork infestation and one mop-up operations after Chaos rebellion. Still, given the theme of the Dark Heresy itself, even the peaceful worlds are dreadful places teeming with heresy and cults, but it's purely to give the GM a wider scope.

Col. Dash
19-11-2009, 14:57
Obyri-Well there is the 6th Chaos god, BordemoLa'zimus. You do not hear too much about him though. While he occasionally gets an idea to go attack somewhere with his followers, typically these peaceful worlds with little in the way of defense, either he is too lazy to motivate one of his followers to do it, or they are too lazy to go and do it, deciding to put it off until tomorrow instead. He has a very large following however, people bored enough to think about it because they have plenty of time because they are too lazy to work.

tuebor
20-11-2009, 00:13
And for the imperial forces, what's the overall goal here? JUST to listen to what the Emperor wants and survival?

Survival is exactly what humanity is after. As a whole, the human race is being nibbled away by all the various threats arrayed against it and probably won't survive in the long run. Sure, there are places where life is grand but in the overall scheme of things humanity is locked in a battle for survival that it has little chance of winning.

Clockwork-Knight
20-11-2009, 01:50
Aside from the gribblies, mankind is also just a few generations away till eveyone becomes a psyker. Without the guidance of the Emperor (as he's stuck on the glorified toilet), mankinds mind will be consumed by the Chaos Gods... Or worse, be used as a spawning place by evil psychic wasps and enslaving psychic squids... Chaos Daemons might be the nicest denizens of the Warp... compared to those other gribblies...

vipernyc
20-11-2009, 03:04
In the grim darkness of the future, there is only war. ONLY. WAR.

Obyri
20-11-2009, 06:07
In the grim darkness of the future, there is only war. ONLY. WAR.

Yes but don't forget the booming minature industry!

Blink
20-11-2009, 08:41
The site still needs a whole lot of work, the stuff you've seen on there were just the bare beginnings. Shamefully the peeps responsible for working on the site have kinda quit.

Go whip them into shape and get them back on it! That whole graphical interface is fascinating.

Fixer
20-11-2009, 10:12
Verdant paradise worlds are there. Ultramar is supposedly a great place to live as it basks in the reflected glow of the Ultramarine's otherworldy perfection.

Of course verdant paradise worlds are also the targets of the most horrific events in Imperial history, just so their loss is extra, extra bad.

Still, between the good and the bad there's bound to be plenty of worlds where the civilian population live, work their daily lives, buy Castellan miniatures from Games Forgeworld and play games of Warhammer 2k, while complaining on the Intermechanicus that mechanised SAS are overpowered, the Royal Marines get too much miniature support and that the Korean People's army codex has not been updated in over 8 thousand years.

Blink
24-11-2009, 15:44
By the way, do ALL Tau alliances with humans turn the humans into a military workforce?

Clockwork-Knight
24-11-2009, 18:18
No, because the Tau continue to use humans the same way the Imperium uses its own citizens. Humans under tau leadership continue paying taxes and tithes, just to blue-grey-skinned xeno, are allowed to continue worshipping some kind of deity on a golden toilet, and are encouraged to build up their own defense forces and supply human volunteers to the Greater Good if they really want.
The main bulk of fighting is still done by the Fire Warriors and their brethrens from the Air Caste.
Kroot, Vespid, Nicassar, Humans, Demiurg and whatever subjugated or allied species works with the Tau Empire are all volunteers when fighting with them. It's a nice thing if they fight with the Tau, but the Tau are biased enough to believe only they can really bring the Greater Good to the milky way, even if other races are billion times mightier, more advanced, older, wiser, and whatever than them.

Sometimes, the human worlds occupied by the Tau get better than under imperial rule, sometimes, nothing changes at all except to whom the tithes go.

Arakanis
25-11-2009, 00:55
Keep an eye on the upcoming Rogue Trader expansions, which I hope will give more insight into common life for human and xeno alike.

Sai-Lauren
25-11-2009, 13:19
In the grim darkness of the future, there is only war. ONLY. WAR.
Really?

Who makes the guns and ammunition, grows the food the soldiers eat, weaves the cloth for their clothes and blankets? Who makes all the things that those workers need?
Because funnily enough, all that doesn't grow on trees and even if it's servitors, who looks after them?

The "There is only war" line is a nice tag line (if you want to bring in the 14 year olds ;)), but if even 1% of the entire galaxy is in conflict at any one time, the munitions use required would exhaust every single race involved's supply lines in about a week.

The Imperium is certainly a war economy, and the threat of conflict is everywhere, be it an outright invasion by Orks, a chaos cult uprising, even a riot caused by workers demanding better pay and conditions. But actual warfare is a lot less widespread than most people suppose.

There are many worlds which haven't been touched by war in anything except distant recorded history, where people get up at 7am, leave their domicile at 8:15, walk, cycle or take local mass transit to their place of employment, do a full days work with half an hour for lunch, leave at 6pm, maybe stop off on their way home at the local parish church for evensong or the nights sermon, get home around 8:30, eat dinner, do something for an hour or so in the evening and go to bed with a quick prayer at the household shrine. At weekends, if their shift patterns allow, they go shopping, watch sports events or other forms of mass media, go to church, and do their laundry and other household chores.

The citizens of the imperium laugh, cry, read books, play games, drink in bars, fall in and out of love, get married, have children and all the other things we would recognise as what people do. And that's the way of life those who serve in the Guard give up, fight to protect, and hope to eventually muster out back into.

Ultramar is pretty much the most civilised end of the spectrum, but even the harsher worlds like Fenris, Catachan, Krieg etc, are by far and away the exception to where and how humanity lives. You're maybe looking at late-40s/early 50s UK civilian life as the best example, there's rationing of some items and the overarching threat of warfare (maybe even a few skirmishes), but there's also cultural imports (especially on worlds used as troop transfer points), consumer goods and a general push towards what's deemed to be a better tomorrow.

The 40k universe isn't just grimdark (and IMO, having some light helps show exactly how grim and dark the grimdark is ;)).

Obyri
25-11-2009, 14:18
Really?

Who makes the guns and ammunition, grows the food the soldiers eat, weaves the cloth for their clothes and blankets? Who makes all the things that those workers need?
Because funnily enough, all that doesn't grow on trees and even if it's servitors, who looks after them?

The "There is only war" line is a nice tag line (if you want to bring in the 14 year olds ;)), but if even 1% of the entire galaxy is in conflict at any one time, the munitions use required would exhaust every single race involved's supply lines in about a week.

The Imperium is certainly a war economy, and the threat of conflict is everywhere, be it an outright invasion by Orks, a chaos cult uprising, even a riot caused by workers demanding better pay and conditions. But actual warfare is a lot less widespread than most people suppose.

There are many worlds which haven't been touched by war in anything except distant recorded history, where people get up at 7am, leave their domicile at 8:15, walk, cycle or take local mass transit to their place of employment, do a full days work with half an hour for lunch, leave at 6pm, maybe stop off on their way home at the local parish church for evensong or the nights sermon, get home around 8:30, eat dinner, do something for an hour or so in the evening and go to bed with a quick prayer at the household shrine. At weekends, if their shift patterns allow, they go shopping, watch sports events or other forms of mass media, go to church, and do their laundry and other household chores.

The citizens of the imperium laugh, cry, read books, play games, drink in bars, fall in and out of love, get married, have children and all the other things we would recognise as what people do. And that's the way of life those who serve in the Guard give up, fight to protect, and hope to eventually muster out back into.

Ultramar is pretty much the most civilised end of the spectrum, but even the harsher worlds like Fenris, Catachan, Krieg etc, are by far and away the exception to where and how humanity lives. You're maybe looking at late-40s/early 50s UK civilian life as the best example, there's rationing of some items and the overarching threat of warfare (maybe even a few skirmishes), but there's also cultural imports (especially on worlds used as troop transfer points), consumer goods and a general push towards what's deemed to be a better tomorrow.

The 40k universe isn't just grimdark (and IMO, having some light helps show exactly how grim and dark the grimdark is ;)).

Well said sir, my thoughts exactely and far more eloquently put than i could.

If there is no contrast then grimdark just becomes the norm - and the norm is pretty much the only thing that doesn't scare us silly little humans. If eternal warfare is your life from birth to death then that's all you've ever known so no big whoop.

In the grim darkness of the far future there is only ROUTINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Culgore
25-11-2009, 14:25
This is a pretty good thread. Even if you take the "There is ONLY war!" seriously you have to take into account the various military positions that aren't front line type work. I used to fix jets in the Air Force and while my entire 5 year career was spent "at-war" I never fired a shot in anger, I went to the range a couple times but that was the nearest thing to combat I ever saw. So in fact a most of my days I went on shift for ten hours, got off shift, changed clothes, and went to the bar. Many people don't think of the guys in uniform who aren't out there shooting at the bad guys, yet those guys greatly outnumber the shooters.