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BrianGeneral
19-11-2009, 10:25
As topic.

I was planning a Bretonnia full-horse army, and was about to do some purchases for it. But as I consider the models, I suddenly think about the problem that if I can use models from other races as my own (especially in cases of GTs). I mean, IMO Empire Knightly Orders are more suitable as Knight Errants, and HE Dragon Princes can act as Grail Knights and they're more badass. (I'm also thinking to buy a HE Prince as my Lord)

Is it allowed in Tournaments, in general senses?
As I think that it'll also act as my local GT army if times allowed.

Dai-Mongar
19-11-2009, 10:32
I don't know about tournaments, but it sounds like a terrible idea. I'm sorry, but pick an army and stick to it.

danny-d-b
19-11-2009, 10:52
I'd immage there isn't a problem aslong as its deffnate what they are

I mean there was a bretoinain army a few years ago that was made from VC modles,my WOC army is 80%ish empire models which fits in with fluff

I'd imagine as long as its clear what is what then most pick up and play games would be find, though you might have to check if you take it to torderments

abcz417
19-11-2009, 11:14
In friendly games it won't matter too much - so long as your opponent knows what they are. Tournaments on the other hand tend not to allow proxies, though it will depend on the tournament.

narrativium
19-11-2009, 11:16
Converting models from one army into units of a second army is fine - most tournaments I'm familiar with don't mind what pieces a model originated from (as long as they're Citadel), just that your opponent isn't going to be confused by what he sees. So, if you've got basic, unmodified Dragon Princes on the board, they should be Dragon Princes. If they're going to be Grail Knights, it's not just a matter of telling your opponent they're Grail Knights, they ought to look the part.

For friendly games, so long as your opponent is understanding and is clear on what you have, you shouldn't have any problems. Gives you chance to try out a new unit or two before spending money on the models.

enygma7
19-11-2009, 21:27
What is an isn't allowed varies between tournis and will be definied in the information pack for the event. Some allow anything, but to be safe it is best to avoid proxying (using substitute models to represent something else) and non-GW models (if you want to take part in official GW tournis, non-GW run ones don't normally care).

Most serious tournis are WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get), meaning you have to use correct models armed with the right equipment. Most of them make exceptions for conversions and thematic armies (i.e. models that don't look like what they are supposed to but fit a well defined theme such as a tree of woe representing a giant in a beastmen army) as the intention is clarity rather than to limit creativity. Basically, if you are just going to use dragon princes as grail knights this is proxying and will be disallowed in a lot of events. If you used dragon prince parts (e.g. the horse) as part of a well executed themed conversion (e.g. your bretonnain lord has a dragon on his heraldry) you'd probably get away with it. If in doubt get in touch and ask before the event.

Jedi152
19-11-2009, 21:30
Not in tournaments, they have strict rules about WYSIWYG, so the opponent is not deceived.

Playing with your friends? Do what you like.

Pacorko
19-11-2009, 22:03
As pointed out, if you don't do the necessary converisons to make it look like a cohesive army that avoids confusion... No, I don't think any tournament would take a look at your mix and say: "all right... Hooray for Bretonnia!"

If, by chance you meant using the various models along with their specific rules besides those for Brets, and aclling the mishmash a "Bretonnian army"--I'm not clear on that one, yet--, well I can assure you that is an absolute NO-NO, everywhere, unless you have very, very accomodating friends.

Mad Makz
20-11-2009, 00:54
Empire Knights can easily fit into the rules of a Bretonnian army, especially if the army has a 'Crusader' theme. Dragon Princes are a little harder to place model wise - but I am sure you could count them as a specific sort of knightly order.

Kalandros
20-11-2009, 03:05
Its definitely fine as long as you theme it properly.

As for me, I'll be using an all plastic VC army using almost exclusively Warriors of Chaos models, converted to be undead, with leftovers of what Tzeentch does best! I won't be the first, nor the last, to use those minis (come on, $26.50 (CAD) for 5 plastic Chaos Knights, model using some left over ghouls bits and you got 5 blood knights ($110 CAD)).

(:

T10
20-11-2009, 07:55
Is it allowed in Tournaments, in general senses?

As I think that it'll also act as my local GT army if times allowed.

I think most strangers you were to face in these tournaments would find it offensive. Your friends will probably be completely aware that your Dragon Princes are in fact Grail Knights and so on, but it's pretty unfair to add this element of confusion to a competitive setting.

I would not enjoy playing your army of Sir Mix-a-Lots.

-T10

Purge the Heretic
20-11-2009, 10:10
Wow Fantasy Players are uptight about this.

I know in most 40k tourneys as long as everything is properly converted it is acceptable.

I know of one in particular, a grot army converted to use imperial guard tanks and rules.

Mad Makz
20-11-2009, 10:36
I think the issue here is the original poster hasn't stated that it's to do with a themed army. Themed armies are generally well respected in Fantasy tournaments, because of the required conversions and making a nice cohesive looking army. But just using on races models as another similiar entry without conversion or an overall theme would be confusing. If I saw empire knights and dragon princes across the table from me and they looked respectively like said units (rather than as some sort of converted unit) I would probably be a bit confused.

EldarBishop
22-11-2009, 02:06
It should be fine (in most cases I've seen) as long as there is some effort put into conversions. If you plop down 5 Dragon Princes painted in normal HE scheme and call them Grail Knights, then NO!

I've seen entirely converted armies in tourneys.

My own VC army is at least half made up of Dark Elves. I get a lot of compliments on the conversions... my Blood Knights, Black Knights, and any mounted characters are all riding Cold Ones. I made it a point to track down a couple of Cold Ones to pull my Black Coach as well. I use Executioners as Grave Guard w/Great Weapons. About half my skeletons were Dark Elves... if you tie everything together with a theme... you shouldn't have any issues.

enyoss
22-11-2009, 04:47
Wow Fantasy Players are uptight about this.

I know in most 40k tourneys as long as everything is properly converted it is acceptable.

I know of one in particular, a grot army converted to use imperial guard tanks and rules.

I think we are, yes :D. One of the great strengths of 40K though (and Necromunda etc.), is that the pure scale of the setting means these kind of things are more acceptable.

To the original poster, I'd be a little uncomfortable seeing any old units plonked down as proxies. I wouldn't refuse to play you though... again, it all comes down to the `friendly' vs `tournament' setting :)

Gorbad Ironclaw
22-11-2009, 05:46
most tournaments I'm familiar with don't mind what pieces a model originated from (as long as they're Citadel)

I don't think you need the qualifier. At least I don't know of any tournament outside of the ones GW run themselves who care what company made the models.


And as others have said, as long as there is some effort done to make it all fit together and present a good looking army then it's fine. With no conversion work done on them it becomes more iffy. I don't really think it would be too confusing once you have told your opponent what is what but if people can't tell what army you are playing by looking at your models there is a problem. (And I don't mean the exact list. I meant what Armybook you are using!)

Red Metal
22-11-2009, 05:58
I'd agree that as long as the OP puts some effort to make the minis related to Brettonia somehow, it should be ok. Technically, it may not break any tournie rules, but out of respect for the game I wouldn't think it to be a good idea to use straight-up Empire Knights in place of Errant Knights. You gotta put in some conversion efforts to make the army look respectable.

tarrasque
22-11-2009, 10:08
Wow Fantasy Players are uptight about this.

I know in most 40k tourneys as long as everything is properly converted it is acceptable.

I know of one in particular, a grot army converted to use imperial guard tanks and rules.
the thing is the op never speaks about conversions only this model = this model.
bit the same as saying this orc i'm going to use as a spacemarine.

if he said something like i going to take a he lord and a gail to his horce his armour and chang this and this and this whit looks totaly awesome and has a mix between the cool elven model and a good conversion to brets most tournies going to say yes you can. but like always there is no default rules on tournys so always check whit the judges on the forehand

Sherlocko
22-11-2009, 14:42
the thing is the op never speaks about conversions only this model = this model.
bit the same as saying this orc i'm going to use as a spacemarine.


Wow, some fantasy players are really up thight. You really think that using dragon princes as the elite knights in a brett army is the same as that? I think a closer thing to compare against would be to use grey knight terminators as terminators in an ultramarine army I think.

Gorbad Ironclaw
22-11-2009, 15:57
How about Mega-armoured nobs as Terminators? Where do you draw the line.

At least terminator armour is the same. It might have slightly different ornament but essentially it's the same model. Bret Knights and High Elves knights are both on horse back and both use armour, but they don't really look the same.

Dr.Mercury
22-11-2009, 17:22
Honestly, if you tell me what things are up front, I could care less what models you use.
I think it would be kind of cool to take an army like this, led by a female mage, like the Lucrezia Belladonna or Morgana leFey models.
The mix of empire brett and HE knights represent all the knights that have fallen under the mesmerizing spell of her beauty.
I think it would be cool to have ALL types of cav represented (all used as Brettonian)
Use Elyrian reavers, Glade Riders and Yeomen as Yeomen
use silverhelms, and a mix of empire knights as errent.
Then use grail and dragon princes as the grail knights, all mixed into the units.
I think it would look very rag-tag, but very cool if painted well.