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Rodman49
19-11-2009, 20:43
What is this?
Yup - you guessed it; another Army Tier thread. This isn't as much for rehashing discussion as it is for data collection. Remember to consider the entire army and not simply one or two specific lists from armies (such as dual STANK Empire). Simply list the armies in four tiers as such (I'll compile data and update the first post as necessary):

Top Tier (1.00 - 1.50)
Daemons of Chaos (1.03)
Vampire Counts (1.19)
Dark Elves (1.35)

Upper Tier (1.51 - 2.50)
Lizardmen (2.06)
Skaven (2.16)
High Elves (2.45)
Wood Elves (2.45)

Middle Tier (2.51 - 3.50)
Warriors of Chaos (2.61)
Bretonnia (2.81)
Empire (2.84)
Dwarfs (3.10)
Tomb Kings (3.10)

Bottom Tier (3.51 - 4.00)
Ogre Kingdoms (3.84)
Orcs & Goblins (3.90)
Beastmen (3.97)

Numbers in parenthesis are the average tier ranking (in which top = 1 and bottom = 4). Updated 30NOV09. Sample Size = 31.

Agoz
19-11-2009, 20:47
Aren't the new skaven at least on-par with bretonians and wood-elves?

vinny t
19-11-2009, 20:53
Top
-Daemons
-Vamps
-Delves

Upper
-Lizards
-Highelves
-Woodelves
-WoC
-Skaven

Middle
-Brets
-Empire
-Dwarves

Lower
-Tomb Kings
-O&G
-Beastmen
-Ogres

ZeroTwentythree
19-11-2009, 20:55
DoC
VC
DE

+++

Skaven
WE
Brets
HE
LM
WoC

+++

Empire
O&G
TK
Dwarfs

+++

Beasts
OK

Laurela
19-11-2009, 21:04
Upper tier Brets eh. I've never really encountered a Bret army that was THAT tough to compete with. I'd move them down to the middle.

blackjack
19-11-2009, 21:08
We have to see some tournies with skaven before we can get a clear idea.

I think Clan pestilens will be making a huge showing though and the former top dogs clan skyre will be seen alot less.

Agoz
19-11-2009, 21:10
Yeah, Pestilens is looking like a strong contender, I wish I could say the same for my moulder :( (Aside from the abomination of course)

Rodman49
19-11-2009, 21:13
First post updated. You guys want to give me actual lists for data? I know you do. Do it!!!

willowdark
19-11-2009, 22:51
Top Tier

Daemons
VC

Upper Tier

Dark Elves
Lizards
Skaven
WoC

Mid Tier

WE
HE
Brets
OK
Empire

Bottom Tier

Dwarfs
Beasts
O&G

I'd considered putting WE in the Upper Tier, but I truly think that those Mid tier armies are all on the same basic powerlevel, just a step behind the next.

OK stomps heads around here. Maybe others think they're bottom rung, but I see them massacre as much as any other army, and against tough opponents too.

Rodman49
19-11-2009, 23:51
Updated again! More data!

Red Metal
19-11-2009, 23:56
I haven't played enough games in 7th Ed to have a really good opinion on the armies; my primary experience is from 6th Ed.

I do have a question though - are more than half the armies in WFB really "upper tier" or higher? I was expecting that there would be more of an even balance or that more armies would be in the mid-range.

Interesting data...

Rodman49
20-11-2009, 00:29
The difference between top and upper is much larger than upper and mid. I'll organize them by average (in addition to Tiers) so that its easier to look at the overall placement of armies.

Zoolander
20-11-2009, 00:42
I hate these posts.

First of all, they serve no purpose other to fan the flames of rumors and miscomprehension. Second, it's rare that anyone agrees on any proposed list, which should tell you there probably are no tiers, and it really does depend on the army list. Finally, putting Skaven in there is a tad early, considering they were just released. You may as well knock Beasts to the upper tier because we all know they will rock when they come out. :rolleyes:

Dexter099
20-11-2009, 00:43
@Zoolander. It's true, not many people agree on all the proposed lists, and taking a list of stuff from a random audience is not going to be very accurate, especially since many people haven't seen all the lists perform with both good and bad generalship, but still post their opinions anyways. Me, I will only post on these threads if I am sure about all the capabilities of an army, after having played against or watched each of them many times, which I am after playing Warhammer a sufficient number of times.

Top Tier
Daemons of Chaos (why did they change their special rules?)
Vampire Counts (why did they change their special rules?)
Dark Elves (Why did they undercost everything?)

Middle Tier

Wood Elves (with tactical and movement flexibility, when used right can shatter an enemy's battleline)
Tomb Kings (Good Tomb King players will destroy their opponents, bad ones will fail)

(all four armies below are on the same level)
Lizardmen, Warriors of Chaos, High Elves, Skaven (What can I say? Warriors have large varieties of units that are devastating when used together, Lizardmen are very similar in that regard, High Elves has ASF and nasty yet fragile units, Skaven have a nasty dirt-cheap Swarm army with tons of devastating weapons and wargear.

Ogre Kingdoms (similar to Tomb Kings in that they are as unstoppable as an avalanche when used correctly, will lose badly when used improperly. Are a bit too old of a book to be any higher, though are still competitive and generally under-estimated)

Bottom Tier

Bretonnians (sometimes they do well, but they lack the newness and punch of the other armies)
Dwarves (meh... I have yet to not score a massacre against a Dwarf army with WoC after playing against them many times)
Empire (plenty of mediocre troops does not a good army make)
Beastmen (Low Ld and overpriced units)
Orcs & Goblins (Animosity and overpriced units)

Rodman49
20-11-2009, 01:04
I hate these posts.

First of all, they serve no purpose other to fan the flames of rumors and miscomprehension. Second, it's rare that anyone agrees on any proposed list, which should tell you there probably are no tiers, and it really does depend on the army list. Finally, putting Skaven in there is a tad early, considering they were just released. You may as well knock Beasts to the upper tier because we all know they will rock when they come out. :rolleyes:

Um what rumors? And tiers are like rough guidelines; plus data so far has obvious trends. If you don't have a list to post don't bother man.

Thanks for the list Dex. Updated per your list.

TheDarkDuke
20-11-2009, 02:05
I kinda laught two upper/top tiers? Should it not be top mid and bottom... any who...

Top
DoC

Upper
VC
DE
HE
Lizardmen
WoC
Skaven
Empire

Mid
Dwarf
Bret
WE

Bottom
OK
BoC
OnG

Ad-Rock
20-11-2009, 02:50
Top
-Daemons
-DE

Upper
-VC
-Lizards
-Highelves
-Empire
-Skaven

Middle
-WE
-WoC
-Brets
-Dwarves
-Tomb Kings
-O&G

Lower
-Beastmen
-Ogres

Maoriboy007
20-11-2009, 03:11
Top Tier:
DoC

2nd Tier:
VC DE & LM

3rd Tier:
WoC HE Skaven (for now) Empire Bretts and Dwarves

Last:
BoC TK OK

Mortally Wounded:
O&G (damn Matt Ward!)

Ward.
20-11-2009, 03:24
Top: DOC, VC, DE.
Upper: High and wood elves, Lizardmen, Skaven, bretts.
Middle:WOC, Empire, Tomb kings, Dwarwes, chaos dwarves, Kislev.
Lower, OK, dogs of war, beastmen, Orcs and goblins.

Stumpy
20-11-2009, 03:43
Daemons (so many things wrong here...)
Vampires (many tactical options with minimal chance of failure. Very hard to drag VPs from)
Dark Elves (everything is undercosted, some stupid options available)
*******
Skaven (the army lists I have written with the new book look terrifying)
WoC (many, many combos)
Lizardmen (even lists without slann/stegs can do well, my army being an example)
Brettonia (lots of knights is painful for 'normal' armies)
*******
High Elves (not too bad if they don't go star dragon or loads of shooting)
Wood Elves (I have never lost to wood elves, but then my armies are always pretty manouverable too)
Tomb Kings (have to be used well and need a decent list, but can be devastating)
Empire (without stanks, there is nothing particularly strong in the empire. Even war altars aren't that good, simply undercosted. They don't do anything especially well)
Ogre Kingdoms (need to be MSU and used well, but I've seen them win several tourneys doing so)
*******
Orcs and Gobbos (on a fair playing field, they can actually do quite well, otherwise no)
Dwarves (too slow in a game where movement is so important)
Beastmen (nothing especially weak in their list, but nothing strong either. Leadership is a major problem)

I have played against every one of these armies at least 5 times, except lizardmen (which I use) and skaven (too early to build up that many games).

Rodman49
20-11-2009, 04:41
Updated for new sample size.

Count Demandred
20-11-2009, 05:30
So essentially all the new armies (bar O&G) have recieved upgrades, and are counted as top-to-very top tier armies.

Wowzer.

So why complain? As soon as the other armies get their new books they'll all be around the same tier.

Max_Killfactor
20-11-2009, 12:35
Top:
Demons

Upper:
VC
DE
LM
WE

Mid:
HE
Skaven
Tomb Kings
Bretonnia
Warriors of Chaos
Empire
Dwarfs

Lower:
Orcs and Goblins
Beastmen
Ogres

Poseidal
20-11-2009, 12:50
Just for your stats, my overall impressions (some are hard to rate for me since there are so few players of them round here)

Akuma SSF2T Tier:
DoC

Sagat Tier:
Dark Elves
VC

Upper Tier:
Lizards
Skaven (maybe)

Mid:
HE
WoC
WE
Empire
Brets
Dwarfs
TK

Lower:
Ogres
Orcs
Beasts

Rodman49
20-11-2009, 18:12
Just for your stats, my overall impressions (some are hard to rate for me since there are so few players of them round here)

Akuma SSF2T Tier:
DoC

Sagat Tier:
Dark Elves
VC

Hah, a guy finally familiar with the first tier system I ever saw. Also Sagat freaking dominates SF4 at mid to low skill level.

Anyway, updated with the next two lists.

Bingo the Fun Monkey
20-11-2009, 19:24
Mat Ward shouldn't be allowed within 10 feet of WHFB text or models.

My list pretty much follows the exact list that's been most recently updated.

selone
20-11-2009, 19:31
Top Tier
Daemons of Chaos
Vampire Counts
Dark Elves

Upper Tier
Lizardmen
Skaven
Wood Elves
High Elves

Middle Tier
Warriors of Chaos
Bretonnia
Empire
Tomb Kings
Dwarfs

Bottom Tier
Ogre Kingdoms
Orcs & Goblins
Beastmen
Dogs o War

ukko
20-11-2009, 20:35
My vote, although Skaven is pure speculation until the dust has settled

Top Tier
Daemons
Dark Elves
VC

Upper Tier
Skaven
Lizards

Mid Tier
WoC
HE
WE
Brets
Tomb Kings
Empire
Dwarfs

Bottom Tier
Beasts
O&G
OK

I have a sneaking suspicion that skaven will be cryptonite to Dark Elves - the ability to neuter flying, not break on the charge, zap hydras/dragons, and use hatred to force them into exploding slaves, should all be enough to drag them back below vamps.

mattschuur
20-11-2009, 21:08
Top-
-Daemons
-Vampire Counts

Upper-
-Dark Elves
-Skaven
-Lizardmen
-Brets

Mid-
-High Elves
-Empire
-Dwarfs
-Warriors of Chaos
-Beastmen (Current edition is highly limited but can still have decent builds)
-Wood Elves

Low-
-Tomb Kings
-Orcs and Goblins (sad)
-Ogres (double sad)


Note- I put Dark Elves as an upper tier army, not top, because they are a very good army that only becomes a superpower with the inclusion of a couple of magic items and Hydra's.

Matt Schuur

Rodman49
20-11-2009, 21:22
Thanks, updated again. I'm surprised 3 out of 4 people think Brets are only middle tier as opposed to upper tier.

Spiney Norman
20-11-2009, 21:50
Also anyone who puts TK in the bottom tier hasn't played against a good TK opponent. I'd put Tk at the top of the mid section, they are clearly better than Empire and probably on a par with High elves (although thats a tricky call to make because TK have exactly the right tools to smack HE around big style).

MTUCache
20-11-2009, 22:06
Also anyone who puts TK in the bottom tier hasn't played against a good TK opponent. I'd put Tk at the top of the mid section, they are clearly better than Empire and probably on a par with High elves (although thats a tricky call to make because TK have exactly the right tools to smack HE around big style).

It's so dependent on so many other variables though. Some armies, like those in the top tier, are almost impossible to make a soft list out of. You have to make obvious concessions just to get down from top-tier to upper-tier.

Other armies have a very wide range that they could fall in depending on their build (as well as the player using them of course). TK and Empire are perfect examples. A good TK general with an optimized list would definitely belong in the Upper-tier. A WAltar and double Stank Empire list should probably even be in the Top-tier. But both of those lists are capable of fielding average or well below-average armies as well.

The top and bottom ends of this list are easy. Ogres and Beasts have no builds which get them higher than middle of the pack, and DoC/DE/VC have no builds which get them lower than that. All the other armies (with the possible exceptions of LZ and the new Skaven, which are tricky) can go anywhere from the high to the low end just by picking different units and characters. When they're all tooled-out to the max you're going to have a hard time differentiating between top- and upper-tier lists.

hawo0313
20-11-2009, 22:19
I'm surprised 3 out of 4 people think Brets are only middle tier as opposed to upper tier.


Thats what I was thinking bretts would be upper because you stated that average lists were taken into account sure at WAAC the bretts dont have that uber powerful build but thier normal build is tough for most armies to take down effectively.

But its good to know they have stood the test of time

metal midget
20-11-2009, 22:21
i would put HE in upper tier if not top tier in my mind they are one of the few armies which can stand against a super cheesed ary and extremely versitile ale to fight anyone

Spiney Norman
20-11-2009, 22:41
My two most regular opponents both play high elves, and play them quite well. I've not had any problems mauling them on a regular basis with either my Lizardmen or Tomb Kings, I see nothing particularly good about their army list, sure its better than the 6th Ed one, and there are a few annoying combos, but really they don't have the tools to field an optimised list that can compete with most other army's best builds.

GenerationTerrorist
21-11-2009, 00:32
In my humble opinion....

Top

- Dark Elves
- Daemons
- Vampire Counts (If only it was not for the Invocation Spam, and the fact that Ghouls should not be "Undead" they would be in Middle/Top Tier)
- High Elves (Well Balanced, lots of variety in lists. Star Dragon Prince or Teclis Spam is the main reason it is Top Tier, IMHO)

Upper

- Lizardmen (Well Balanced, lots of variety in lists)
- Skaven (Great to play against!)
- Wood Elves (In the hands of a competent player, they can beat anyone)
- Empire (Well Balanced, lots of variety in lists)
- Tomb Kings (ITP puts them here. Else they would be bottom of them all)

Middle

- Warriors of Chaos (too One-Dimensional)
- Brettonians
- Dwarves
- Orcs and Goblins (too One-Dimensional)

Lower

- Beastmen (Although TzaanBull Mino-Lists would be top end of Middle Tier)
- Ogres (Worst. Army. Ever!)

abcz417
21-11-2009, 09:37
My two cents worth:

Top

- Daemons
- Dark Elves
- Vampire Counts


Upper

- Lizardmen
- High Elves
- Skaven
- Warriors of Chaos
- Wood Elves


Middle

- Empire
- Brettonians
- Tomb Kings
- Dwarves


Lower

- Beastmen
- Orcs and Goblins
- Ogres

GuyLeCheval
21-11-2009, 11:49
My two cents worth:

Top

- Daemons
- Dark Elves
- Vampire Counts


Upper

- Lizardmen
- High Elves
- Skaven
- Warriors of Chaos
- Wood Elves


Middle

- Empire
- Brettonians
- Tomb Kings
- Dwarves


Lower

- Beastmen
- Orcs and Goblins
- Ogres

I agree with you.

selone
21-11-2009, 15:23
I'd agree that skaven should do well versus dark elves but this is theoryhammer at this stage.
I wouldn't put Brett's as upper because increasinly armies are getting hard to break troops and/or ones that hit first/hit like a ton.

Desert Rain
21-11-2009, 15:34
Tier 1
Daemons
Dark Elves
Vampires

Tier 2
Lizardmen
Skaven
High Elves
Warriors of Chaos

Tier 3
Dwarves
Wood Elves
Bretonnia
Empire
Tomb Kings

Tier 4
Ogres
Orcs and Goblins
Beastmen

Dead Man Walking
21-11-2009, 15:47
The all steggie list can fight very well against top tier. I play in an overly competetive group and I have beaten all the top contender armies except for skaven pestilens and that was a dice fluke. I charged in with anchient steggie with chief and warspear on Queek headtaker's unit and with 2d6+2 impact hits I rolled snake eyes. Rolled 5 str 6 wounds on him and he saved 3 (needing 6's). If it had not been for that the entire army would of been rolled.

This was against a pestilens army with plague censors and they are quite devestating (kills all skinks aboard a steggy and slowly whittles down the steggie). The only flaw to the army is that once they take enough wounds they won't be able to move at all, which can be a detriment.

Steggies should do well against every army except for the warriors of chaos with the special dragon ogre character that dishes out lots of wounds and all Tzeentch flying circus lists.

Arkh
23-11-2009, 05:15
Top: DoC, VC,
Upper: Skaven, Lizardmen, DE
Middle: HE, WE, WOC, Empire, Tomb kings, Dwarves,
Lower: OK, DoW, BoC, O&G

I don't consider WE upper tier... but then I play against them 90% of the time because 3 of my 4 friends that I primarily play with run WE, so I am quite adept at playing against them. On the other hand, I am full well aware of how much of a pain in the ### it is to play your first bunch of games against them.

Rodman49
23-11-2009, 06:50
Updated only things that changed were High Elves moved from Middle to Upper and Tomb Kings moved ahead of Dwarfs in average tier rating. Thanks for the data; sample size is now 20.

oCoYoRoAoKo
23-11-2009, 10:06
My Tier List:

Top Tier:
Dark Elves
Daemons of Chaos
Vampire Counts

Upper Tier:
Skaven - Lizardmen
High Elves
Wood Elves

Middle Tier:
Bretonnia
Warriors of Chaos - Empire - Dwarfs
Tomb Kings

Bottom Tier:
Ogre Kingdoms
Orcs & Goblins
Beastmen

Cy.

Dungeon_Lawyer
23-11-2009, 10:10
top tier:
DoC, VC, (POINT AND CLICK ARMIES)......
Tomb Kings (an experienced fantasy player will kick your ass with this army 8/10 times)

upper tier:
DE (I agree with cost issues)
HE
WE (See info on TK)
Lizardmen
OK (msu +Rhinox cav = devastating)
WoC

mIDDLE TIER:
Brets
Skaven (too soon to say)
Empire
Chaos Dwarfs(the indy gt book)
Dwarfs


bottem feeders:
O&G's (but they are a blast to play/against, really "fun" army)

Beasts (but the slannesh marked list is really good

abcz417
23-11-2009, 10:24
TK - top tier?! OK Upper tier??!! You equal crazy person ;)

N1AK
23-11-2009, 12:58
Top
-Daemons
-Delves

Upper
-Lizards
-Woodelves
-Skaven
-Vamps

Middle
-Highelves
-WoC
-Brets
-Empire
-Dwarves

Lower
-Tomb Kings
-O&G
-Beastmen
-Ogres

Dungeon_Lawyer
25-11-2009, 00:54
TK - top tier?! OK Upper tier??!! You equal crazy person ;)

Dont believe the warseer fanboy hype brother---these armies are downright nasty in the hands of a capable general----Its already been addressed in this thread the whole "list vs book debate" so I dont want to rehash it too much but in a tourney powerbuild setting TK and OK have lists that are incredible--Now to be sure, other books have a greater variety of viable lists to choose from but very tough lists can be made from the contents of every armybook. That is why many folks :eyebrows::rolleyes: when they see threads such as this one....

Zeuy
25-11-2009, 04:30
Top: VC
Upper: WE, DE, HE, WoC, DoC, Empire, Lizardmen, Skaven
Middle: Brets, Dwarves, TK
Bottom: OK, BoC, O&G

Gabacho Mk.II
25-11-2009, 06:15
The following is my submission, given the games that I have seen in my various campaigns over the last 4 years:


Top Tier
Daemons of Chaos
Vampire Counts
Dark Elves
Skaven

Upper Tier
Bretonnia
Lizardmen
Wood Elves
High Elves [the way that I play them, HE's should be in the Middle Tier] :D

Middle Tier
Warriors of Chaos
Empire
Dwarfs
Tomb Kings

Bottom Tier
Ogre Kingdoms
Orcs & Goblins
Beastmen
Dogs o War


Assuming, of course, both generals are of equal experience and tactical levels of gaming, as well as having 'balanced' armylists, 'balanced' terrain setup, etc.

abcz417
25-11-2009, 12:32
Dont believe the warseer fanboy hype brother---these armies are downright nasty in the hands of a capable general----Its already been addressed in this thread the whole "list vs book debate" so I dont want to rehash it too much but in a tourney powerbuild setting TK and OK have lists that are incredible--Now to be sure, other books have a greater variety of viable lists to choose from but very tough lists can be made from the contents of every armybook. That is why many folks :eyebrows::rolleyes: when they see threads such as this one....


I agree that both TK and OK can be effective in the hands of a good general - especially TK which is one of the most tactical armies out there. However, a good general can win with any army over a rubbish general.

IMO saying TK's 'best list' is better than DE's 'best list' doesn't make sense. If what you said was correct then you'd expect the GT results to have TK right up there rather than the DoC, DE duopoly that we have now. I'm not saying your wrong, necessarily, it just surprises me that, if what you're saying is true, TK don't do better at tournaments.

Falkman
25-11-2009, 12:41
Top Tier:
Daemons of Chaos
Dark Elves
Vampire Counts

Upper Tier:
Skaven
Lizardmen
High Elves
Wood Elves
Empire

Middle Tier:
Bretonnia
Warriors of Chaos
Dwarfs
Tomb Kings
Dogs of War

Bottom Tier:
Ogre Kingdoms
Orcs & Goblins
Beastmen

Lord Anathir
25-11-2009, 18:38
top:
DoC, VC, DE

Upper:
Skaven, Lizards,

Middle:
Empire, Woodelves, high elves, dwarfs, bretts, warriors, tomb kings

Low: Beasts, orcs, ogres

Dungeon lawyer may have been right about TK being top but then I saw him rank DE and HE in the same category which automatically made everything he said completely inaccurate and impossible to justify.

Gabacho Mk.II
26-11-2009, 06:59
Let's see how far this thread will go. Am very curious as to the feedback we get here.

Condottiere
26-11-2009, 07:53
What is this?
Yup - you guessed it; another Army Tier thread. This isn't as much for rehashing discussion as it is for data collection. Remember to consider the entire army and not simply one or two specific lists from armies (such as dual STANK Empire). Simply list the armies in four tiers as such (I'll compile data and update the first post as necessary):

Top Tier (1.00 - 1.50)
Daemons of Chaos (1.00)
Vampire Counts (1.20)
Dark Elves (1.35)

Upper Tier (1.51 - 2.50)
Lizardmen (2.05)
Skaven (2.20)
High Elves (2.50)
Wood Elves (2.50)

Middle Tier (2.51 - 3.50)
Warriors of Chaos (2.65)
Bretonnia (2.80)
Empire (2.90)
Tomb Kings (3.10)
Dwarfs (3.15)

Bottom Tier (3.51 - 4.00)
Ogre Kingdoms (3.85)
Orcs & Goblins (3.85)
Beastmen (3.95)

Numbers in parenthesis are the average tier ranking (in which top = 1 and bottom = 4). Updated 23NOV09. Sample Size = 20.The WoC and Wood Elves need to exchange places. Empire should be in the middle.

Taishar
26-11-2009, 07:59
Top Tier:
Dark Elves
Daemons of Chaos
Vampire Counts

Upper Tier:
Skaven
Lizardmen
High Elves
Warriors of Chaos
Empire

Middle Tier:
Bretonnia
Wood Elves
Dwarves
Tomb Kings

Bottom Tier:
Dogs of War
Ogre Kingdoms
Orcs & Goblins
Beastmen


Cheers

Gabacho Mk.II
26-11-2009, 17:45
To the OP:
How many posters did you take into account when you are working out the placements? (I assume all of the posters on the thread, yes?)

Thanks :)

Spiney Norman
26-11-2009, 18:28
Top Tier
Daemons of Chaos
Vampire Counts

Upper Tier
Dark Elves
Lizardmen
Skaven
Warriors of Chaos

Mid Tier
High Elves
Tomb Kings/Bretonnians
Wood elves
Dwarfs/Empire

Lower Tier
Orcs & Goblins
Ogres/Beastmen

CommanderCax
26-11-2009, 18:34
Top Tier
Daemons of Chaos (deadly as...well...hell)
Vampire Counts (dead hard...)

Upper Tier
Dark Elves (bloody cost effective)
Bretonnia (terribly hard hitting and Top Tier if used against armies not expecting them)
Wood Elves (extremely effective)

Middle Tier
High Elves (strong but sometimes frail)
Lizardmen (overall good and adaptable)
Warriors of Chaos (overall good)
Skaven (seems very effective)
Empire (effective and very adapatable)
Dwarfs (quite tough)

Bottom Tier
Ogre Kingdoms (can be frail overall)
Orcs & Goblins (overpriced)
Tomb Kings (difficult to be effective)
Beastmen (rather weak)
Dogs of War (underpowered)

Condottiere
26-11-2009, 20:05
Dogs of War is mid-tier, if you take Regiments of Renown into consideration, though this can be seriously overpowering in sub2K games.

Shadowsinner
26-11-2009, 20:06
Top Tier: Demons (a joke to the game)

High Tier Armies:

*Vampire counts (though they can easily be thrown into a top tier category, they do have some decent weaknesses and if their ability options aren't exploited then they can make a challenging but fair list.

*Dark Elves (its really about the hydras and 2-3 magic items and super combos. Although they can pop into the top tier category with certain exploitations, again they can be challenging but still have plenty of weaknesses)

* Skaven (Pretty high tier from what it seems, although I haven't played them yet. Though I do hear that you can spare a mere 60 points to cover all core choices in a list so I'd even argue they might have the capability to be top tier

* WoC (lots of excellent options for a strong list especially with tzeench magics. solid but can be worked around as well.)

* Lizardmen (solidly built with plenty of support units and of course stegadons. All in units are tough but not unkillable as well as characters)

Middle Tier Armies:


* Brettonia (an older force but can easily jump into a higher catagory)

* Empire (a perfectly balanced army of strengths and weaknesses, can go into a high tier army)

* Wood elves (can be lethal but shred like paper against ASF and magic spells)

* High Elves (hey ASF helps, but they are elves as well. A good player... well someone who knows the rules can play them well. They can bring high tier lists.

*Dwarfs (lots of solid units and tough shooting) though certain armies are better at being dwarfs than dwarfs are, certian lists and combos can make them quite a pain to handle. They can jump into high tier lists as well.

Low tier armies:

* BoC (they can be pesky but other armies have too many advantages over them. rules need to be updated since they were nerfed of their chaotic marks.)

* Tomb Kings (extremely out dated but a good player can bring them up to a high tier level)

* Ogre Kingdoms (too expensive and underpowered. they can make a solid middle tier list with a good player)

*O&G (they can be a middle tier with a good player)

Dungeon_Lawyer
01-12-2009, 01:37
top:
DoC, VC, DE

Upper:
Skaven, Lizards,

Middle:
Empire, Woodelves, high elves, dwarfs, bretts, warriors, tomb kings

Low: Beasts, orcs, ogres

Dungeon lawyer may have been right about TK being top but then I saw him rank DE and HE in the same category which automatically made everything he said completely inaccurate and impossible to justify.:cries:

lol.

Rodman49
01-12-2009, 02:26
Updated again. Very little movement. Dwarfs tied Tomb Kings in average ranking. Most of the Upper Tier armies had their average rankings move closer to 2.00

So far I have used everyone in this thread for a total of 31 lists (including my own).

ChaosVC
01-12-2009, 02:47
This is the most pointless excercise of Tiering, almost everyone had their own idea of ranking... with the exception of the obvious top 3.

Sygerrik
14-01-2010, 17:41
Top: Daemons, Dark Elves, Vampires
Upper: Warriors of Chaos, Lizardmen, Skaven, High Elves, New Beasts
Middle: Empire, Wood Elves, Bretonnians, Dwarves, Tomb Kings
Lower: Ogres, O&G, Dogs of War

Fjoergyn
14-01-2010, 19:50
Top: The top three.
Upper: Skaven, Lizardmen, High Elves, Woodies, Warriors
Middle: Empire, Dwarves, Brettonians, TK
Lower: Ogres, Orcs & Goblins, Beasts

But making a simple list of "X Itīs-better-than-Y" (in my gaming group, an "I have it larger than you") is difficult. I think that Warriors are not at the same level than Lizardmen, and maybe Tomb Kings arenīt at same level than Dwarves or empire, but they are better than Orcs and Ogres, Imho. Everyone may have differents experiences with some armies (for example, I have never played versus skaven, I play with them, they are not under my point of view as enemies; and I have never faced Wood Elfs (saw some games, another game had them as allies, but never faced, maybe they are not so hard as I think)

Donīt know if it is useful make this list, but eh... I have some free time :D:D

Rodman49
14-01-2010, 20:02
This isn't a X is better than Y listing. For those of you familiar with Street Fighter this type of tier system is more of a rough guide. Of course some armies are better against other particular armies, and player skill varies widely but some armies would certainly be more disposed towards winning if player skill etc is roughly the same.

Not everyone will agree on every army, but this shows that most people agree on most armies. Or which armies people do not agree on.

RGB
14-01-2010, 21:18
Not to be too original:

Top: Daemons, Dark Elves, Vampires
Upper: Warriors of Chaos, Lizardmen, Skaven, High Elves
Middle: Empire, Wood Elves, Bretonnians, Dwarves (don't lose, don't win either), Tomb Kings, maybe New Beasts (too early to tell but looks nothing like as powerful as the precedding few).
Lower: Ogres, O&G, Dogs of War, Tomb Kings (although they can be surprising to the unprepared)

Kalec
14-01-2010, 22:40
Top:
Daemons
VC
DE

Upper:
Lizzies
Skaven
HE
WoC

Middle:
Brets
WE
Empire
Beastmen
Dwarves

Low:
TK
Ogres
OnG

Brother Edwin
14-01-2010, 22:52
Well the UKGT result FACTS say that daemons and dark elves are the 2 best armys in the game.

This is all nonsense anyway. Its about matchups and list selection and terrain and the player. You cant just make a list of armys and say that this army is better than this one.

For a start my wood elf army will destroy any army bar one that has shooting/close combat that ignores line of sight or I get silly unlucky like misscast or whatever.

Lijacote
14-01-2010, 23:02
Clearly, if a comet were to strike Earth in 2012, it would be the work of the Slann because they do that sort of thing, it's complete and utter fact, much like winning tournaments means the army is the best without question.

Brother Edwin
14-01-2010, 23:27
Clearly, if a comet were to strike Earth in 2012, it would be the work of the Slann because they do that sort of thing, it's complete and utter fact, much like winning tournaments means the army is the best without question.


Wrong.

Winning a tournament does not prove a army is the best.

However two armys consistantly filling up the top 10 positions in a no holds bared tournament with the best players in Europe does.

Condottiere
15-01-2010, 05:53
It's always surprising to find DoW placed on the bottom tier, though not as disheartening as when they aren't mentioned at all.

Dreadaxe
15-01-2010, 10:03
With Tģ informations
http://www.tabletoptournaments.net/eu/t3_armies.php?cid=0&gid=1

Army Ranking (on all results)

Place Army Points
Strong Tournament Armies
1. Daemons of Chaos 100.00
2. Daemonic Legion 86.02

Regular Tournament Armies
3. Wood Elves 77.09
4. Night Goblin Horde 73.29
5. Bretonnia 72.08
6. Vampire Counts 70.32
7. Lizardmen 70.07
8. Army of Sylvania 69.81
9. Tomb Kings 68.50
10. Errantry War 64.74
11. High Elves 64.09
12. Skaven 63.83
13. Chaos Warriors 62.00
14. High Elf Sea Patrol 61.31
15. Empire 61.18
16. Sacred Hosts 60.88
17. Dark Elves 60.27
18. Beasts of Chaos 60.10
19. Chaos Dwarfs 58.13
20. Dwarfs 57.27
21. Ogre Kingdoms 55.64
22. Dogs of War 55.11

Weak Tournament Armies
23. Dwarf Slayers 54.97
24. Hell Pit Army 53.84
25. Orcs & Goblins 53.64
26. Southlands Army 51.46
27. Crusaders Army 50.74
28. Cult of Slaanesh 49.73
29. Clan Eshin 48.07
30. Army of Middenland 41.33
31. Archaon's Horde 40.63
32. Nurglitch's Court 39.46
33. Grimgor's 'Ardboys 33.54
34. Red Legion of Tehenhauin 32.57

Average: 59.46
Info: Only armies whith at least 6 placements are counted. The army with the best placements is put in place 1 with an index of 100. The other placements depend on this index.

Army Ranking (only on tournament wins)
Place Army Points
1. Daemons of Chaos 152
2. Wood Elves 106
3. Lizardmen 99
4. Bretonnia 90
5. Vampire Counts 86
6. Tomb Kings 85
7. Skaven 83
8. Chaos Warriors 71
9. High Elves 62
10. Beasts of Chaos 59
10. Dark Elves 59
11. Empire 51
12. Daemonic Legion 50
13. Dwarfs 36
14. Orcs & Goblins 35
15. Ogre Kingdoms 31
16. Dogs of War 26
17. Chaos Dwarfs 25
18. Army of Sylvania 24
19. Cult of Slaanesh 10
20. Errantry War 9
21. High Elf Sea Patrol 5
21. Clan Eshin 5
22. Sacred Hosts 2
22. Dwarf Slayers 2
22. Army of Middenland 2
23. Zombie Pirates 1
23. Southlands Army 1
23. Night Goblin Horde 1
23. Kislev 1
23. Grimgor's 'Ardboys 1
23. City Garrisons Army 1
23. Archaon's Horde 1
23. Crusaders Army 1
Total: 1273

GuyLeCheval
15-01-2010, 12:43
Top:
Daemons
VC
DE

Upper:
Lizzies
Skaven
HE
WoC

Middle:
Brets
WE
Empire
Beastmen
Dwarves

Low:
TK
Ogres
OnG

This is it.

Brother Edwin
15-01-2010, 13:36
This is it.

Then explain how my wood elves auto-beat about 90% of those armys?

Stonewyrm
15-01-2010, 14:24
Originally Posted by GuyLeCheval View Post
This is it.
Then explain how my wood elves auto-beat about 90% of those armys?

Maybe because you are better than all other players who play Wood Elves?
Or maybe you are a liar.

bubbathebrute
15-01-2010, 22:56
Top:
Daemons
VC
DE

Upper:
Lizzies
Skaven
HE
WoC

Middle:
Empire
WE
Dwarves
Brets
TK

Low:
Ogres
OnG
Beastmen

Skyros
15-01-2010, 23:14
I think asking peoples OPINION is far less useful than looking at the actual tournament results, as Dreadaxe has done.

papabearshane
16-01-2010, 06:55
O&Gs
Deamons somwhere down below them then everything else just gets WAAAAAGH!!

Im a firm believer in there are to many cheesy players and not enough funin the game.......i like to win as much as the next ego maniac out there i just like to do it with skill, style and a huge CHOPPA!!!!

tmarichards
16-01-2010, 11:04
This is all nonsense anyway. Its about matchups and list selection and terrain and the player. You cant just make a list of armys and say that this army is better than this one

Then explain how my wood elves auto-beat about 90% of those armys?

Anyone else noticing a slight discrepancy here? Brother Edwin strikes again, bring exasperation to the Warseer masses...