PDA

View Full Version : 2 lizardmen lists 2250



kamstew
23-11-2009, 10:32
2250

Slann 325
Rumination, mystery, lore of light
offensive catser

Engine of the gods 390
lvl 2 priest

Engine of the Gods 390
lvl 2 Priest

Chakax 335
i understand the points cost but i want to try running him

18 Saurus 198
standard

18 Saurus 198
standard

18 Saurus 198
standard

14 Temple Guard 223
Standard

very character heavy but when you figure that half of them double as rares it makes a little more sense


list #2
2250

Oldblood
Sword of Tzunki, Bane Head, Venom of firefly frog, light armour
gave him venom becuase i had 10 points left over, might go with the squad of temple guard the is without chakax

Skink Priest 130
Cube of Darkness
with a unit of saurus, take the spell #1 to re-roll 1s in the unit

Scar Vet 135
Sword of might, Shield o Mirrored pool
hang with a unit of saurus, take of bigger stuff
Chakax 335

18 Saurus 204
Standard, musicain

18 saurus 198
standard

18 saurus 298
standard

18 saurus 198
standard

18 Temple Guard 302
Standard

18 Temple Guard 302
Standard

blackjack
23-11-2009, 20:50
Sword of Tzunki, Bane Head, Venom of firefly frog, light armour

Venom wont work on magic weapons.

Your saurus need spears.

Your TG unit is too small in list 1. and TG with no slann is pointless in list 2.

Most people find 2 EOTG's plus a slann to be cheesy.

Tzeentch Lord X7
23-11-2009, 20:59
take skinks/terradons/salamanders

kamstew
23-11-2009, 21:02
for one my theme is saurus, i want to be able to win but i also want to have fun, i cant see why temple gaurd are pointless, they have halberds, 2+ save if they use HW, they have ld9, ws4, thier pretty good in my eyes, a unit of 14+ Chakax isnt THAT small, and id rather have more saurus then less saurus with spears

ive changed the second list a little
my oponent has agreed to a less that 5 point overspend
2252

Oldblood
Sword of Tzunki, Mirrored pool, light armour


Skink Priest 130
Cube of Darkness
with a unit of saurus, take the spell #1 to re-roll 1s in the unit

Scar Vet 135
Scimitar of sun resplendant, shield, light armour
hang with a unit of saurus

Gor-Rok 215
hang with a unit of guard

18 Saurus 198
Standard

18 saurus 198
standard

18 saurus 298
standard

18 saurus 198
standard

23 Temple Guard 382
Standard

21 Temple Guard 350
Standard

warhawk95
23-11-2009, 21:08
I agree with Tzeentch Lord X7. You have no shooting at all, and in your second list especially you will get crushed by shooting and magic. The first can survie from magic for a turn or two but once those cannons take out he stegs your done. In your first list drop the special character or a steg if your really keen on keeping him ( i would drop both and get a scarvet BSB on a coldone with some magic items personally). Pick up some skinks, ranked or skrim doesnt matter, terradons as well. another steg (not EotG) would be wise as well becuase you need a hammer to help take down those units that hit your suarus wall.

The second list is much worst IMO, but to fix it drop the scar vet since your so keen on Chakax, put your skink on an engine. both TG get some skinks terras something so you can take down shooting. Both lists will get recked by any form of shooting even S3 will knock down some models. and with no hammers in the list your oppenent can swarm on one of your units and slowly break your army. oh and spears are really good too!

kamstew
23-11-2009, 21:24
i see where you coming from but im going to try a few games with each and see how it goes, luckily the player im going to be playing plays warriors of chaos so, not toooo much shooting

Gaargod
23-11-2009, 21:29
Oh dear.

List 1:

Slann - give the guy BSB at the very least! Also, you decide your magic lore after deploying, not at army building stage. I'd also suggest Cupped Hands of the Old Ones, Bane Head and a Scroll. Don't skimp on the magic gear, its important. Warbanner
wouldn't go amiss either.

Same for EotGs. Plaque of Tepok is an amazing item for example.

Why so many saurus?? If you're aiming for competitive (as i would guess from slann+2engines), drop all but the TG. Take skinks, terradons and sallies instead, far more useful.

Drop Chakax. He's just not worth it. A scar vet on a cold one, if you want a fighty hero, will do you far more - go for cold one, enc shield, piranha blade, light armour = 160.

Seriously, go look at some competitive lists about the place. This is, i'm sorry, a genuinely bad attempt.

2nd list, however, is worse. Much, much worse.

Again with the vast numbers of saurus. I really hope you haven't bought the models, because you won't be using that many before like 5k games. Get some skinks, terradons, salamanders. These are the support which your army relies upon.

Scar vet is suprisingly okay, altho there is no reason not to give him a cold one - fear immunity + extra armour (stupidity, but this army is so horrendously slow and infantry based, its not like it would make a fricking difference).

Chakax has, if possible, even less use in this list. Now he's no longer just a super expensive hero (seriously, he's more than your lord by 100pts. More on him later...), he's a super expensive hero who you're not even using all the rules for! The lizardmen special character, with the possible exception of Gor-rok, blow. Standard chars are far better value for money.

Saurus = spears. Let me say that again for emphasis. Saurus units need spears . Its why they're a good unit. Without... No. On the plus side, 18 strong with a banner is good.

Temple guard without a slann are expensive saurus who lose attacks. Its been discussed to death (somewhere in the LM tactica for certain, and a couple of other threads, one of which i put up a long post on it. End result = not worth it).

Complete lack of hammers in the army. Literally nothing. Get some saurus cav/stegs. You should be looking at around 2 units of saurus, with 2-4 hammers (of varying strength). LM army does hammer+anvil very well.

Your skink priest is very poor. If he's going to be your sole magic defence, lv2 with diadem + scroll is barely, just about, passable. I run a heavy cav army (because i can :D ) and i take him and get away with it, but then i'm often in combat by turn 2/3. Never, ever stick him in a saurus unit. Very easily killed and you lose saurus attacks!

Your lord is a) illegal - 2 enc items and b) not very good. Blade of Rev Tzunki is fine, go with glyph necklace for protection. But more importantly, put him on a mount! At least a cold one for the armour, ideally a carni as one of your main hammers. Remember, he doesn't even have to be your general, as he's same LD as scar vets.

kamstew
23-11-2009, 23:18
ive taken all of your advice and made a list with a little changeup for a different list

2250

slann mage-priest 390
Rumination, Mystery, Scrutiny
Bane Head

Chakax 335

EOTG skink priest
lvl 2 ,

Skink Priest
lvl 2, diadem of power

18 Saurus Warriors 216
Spears, Standard

18 Saurus Warriors 216
Spears, Standard

10 skink skirmishers 70

10 skink skirmishers 70



18 Temple Guard 223
standard,

2 salamader 150

1 salamader 75


list 2
remove chakax/ one salamander ,add EOTG with plaque of topek

lizardmaster
23-11-2009, 23:39
I don't understand why some people think saurus without spears is "wrong". The very notion is just silly, have you never spent points on spears then decided to use hw&shield at the start of a combat? If not then you're not bothering to consider all your options.

It's a safe bet that at least 1 unit is going to come across a situation where the extra armour is far more important than killing the enemy. For example, place a sacrificial unit of skinks in front of the unit to stand and shoot then get ran down. The opponent overruns into the unit, leaving the combat to be resolved on YOUR turn. On your turn, a friendly unit charges the enemy's flank. Ranks, standard, outnumber, and flank going your way and all the opponent can do is collect kills. Against chaos or dwarfs all those extra attacks will usually kill 1-3 more, better to save 1-3 of your own troops and let your tactics win the fight. Not the most complex trap lol but one of dozens I've found to work consistently.

So let me ask you this, if you know your army is capable of consistently pulling off these kind of simple tactics why bother spending points on giving EVERY unit spears you won't use? Those who try to win by frontal assults are picked apart by a good tactician, even without shooting or magic. These lists would be eliminated by specific armies, but could just as easily pick apart others.

Personally there are a few things I would change, it's not really well rounded, but I can't imagine why you shouldn't use it. By the second game I think you'll realize what needs to be changed, but I'll give you some advice. It's very easy to make an extremely competitive and fun to use army at this point value with 4 units of saurus (not every unit needs spears), 5 will be lopsided but usable, with 6 units your army's weaknesses will be crippling.

Just some food for thought. A scar-vet fully decked out with magic items and gear joins a unit of saurus, gets in a fight and the unit runs down the enemy. A Scar-vet with great weopon and light armour joins a unit of saurus, gets in a fight and the unit runs down the enemy. You just spent a lot of points to make the character "cool". That usually all it is when people tell you what the "better build" is. They didn't play test multiple combos in consecutive battles, didn't intentionally create dozens of scenarios to see if the point value is appropriate. They're just telling you their oppinion, form your own. You do need to make it legal though ;) work on that bit.

kamstew
24-11-2009, 00:03
thatnks for that but after looking at this list i like it allot i basicly have everything i wanted + some competetive stuff and on spears, they are verry usefull, the only reason i didnt take them before was to save points

i know scar vet are good i just couldent resist chakax

warhawk95
24-11-2009, 00:07
Alright I like the new list #1 much more. solid line with 2 saurus blocks and a nice TG unit. I dont like special characters but you seemed determined so I will say no more. I still think you should drop some sallies and get some terradons 2x3 is ideal. they are very good at what they do and can help quickly eliminate war machines. I would also give the diamdem to the EotG priest and drop the other one. the slann with the engine is plenty to get off your required spells. I think that you really need another steg in their too, points will be tough cough*drop*cough*Chakax *cough, but i think that your army really lacks a hammer unit, saurus can do this, but the steg is much more effective and can really destroy enemy units, plus the engine is a bad idea becuase he really shouldnt be seeing combat.

List #2 i still think is a mess. TG arent really used unless a slann is present, ive never seen it. plus you really should mount your coldblood on a carnasaur, other wise you can get some scar vets for his price and that is much more effective. I prefer list #1, the second one needs a lot more work. If you really want to use list 2 then i can give some more pointers, but other wise take #1.

kamstew
24-11-2009, 01:04
i scratched list number 2 list number 2 is just to replace chakax and 1 salamander with a engine of gods with the plaque of topek

warhawk95
24-11-2009, 02:31
ahh i see. well 2 engies and a slann is by some considered cheesy. and since that doesnt seem the route you going for i would reccomend against it. from your side it seems you want to be competitive but also let your oppenent enjoy the game. my reccomandation would be drop chakax, get a scar vet on a cold one with BSB magic items to your choice. he can run around on his own or join a suarus unit has alot of functions. get some terradons and try and get another steg to use as a hammer, this might mean dropping some saurus and going from 18 to 15 wont hurt you that much for a nice hammer. that would make a much more flexible list with terradons and skinks for shooting and harrasing a solid magic phase with slann and eotg, good core of troops with the TG and saurus and then your hammers with the scar vet and the other steg. if you want to field chakax then drop the engine get him and replace with a cheap skink priest.

kamstew
24-11-2009, 21:05
im going to be changing up just a little bit when i get to the hobby shop and use army builder but for now heres my list
im going to be changeing a few things up every game but the basics are
im going to be playing warriors of chaos so if you have any specific advice for fighting them that would be good
2250

slann mage-priest 390
Rumination, Mystery, Scrutiny (or rumination mystery and becalming)
Bane Head, cupped hands, power stone

Chakax 335

EOTG skink priest
lvl 2 ,cube of darkness

Skink Priest
lvl 2, diadem of power

18 Saurus Warriors 216
Spears, Standard

18 Saurus Warriors 216
Spears, Standard

10 skink skirmishers 70

10 skink skirmishers 70



18 Temple Guard 223
standard,

4 Terradons

or change chakax and and the terradons in for another EOTG, and 1 salliemander