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DarkIronfist
23-11-2009, 16:19
Hey Guys!

Long time reader, first time poster I guess.. Anyway, I want to get your opinion on something.. Lately it have become a trend in my gaming enviroment to cheese out each and every list as much as possible.. Though I cannot say i like the way it's going, I guess (after trying to play "normal" list) i have to admit defeat and cheese out my own pimp list..

So here it is, check it out, see what u think.. What's good`? what can be better/improved.. The aim of the game is ofcourse to have a fast mobile strike force, and so forth, and so on.. yaaawn.. see for yourselfs: :)


Core :

Dark Riders *5, musician = 92
Dark Riders *5, musician = 92
Dark Riders *5, musician = 92
Harpies *5 = 55

Special:

Black Guard, Standard bearer, Standard of Haeg Graef = 166
Cold One Knights *5, Standard, Champion 167
Shades *9, Great Weapons = 162
Chariot = 100

Rare:

War Hydra = 175
War Hydra = 175

Assassin, add hand. rending stars, manbane, cloack of twilight = 171

Heroes:

Master, Cold One, Ring of Hotek, Lance, Heavy Armour, SDC, Shield = 139
Master, Blood Armour, SDC, Soulrender = 114

Lords

Dreadlord, Crimson Death, Armour of Darkness, Pendant of Khaeleth,
Black Dragon = 545

= 2245, the limit is 2250

The Assassin goes in with the shades, the master on Cold One with the knights, And the last master with the BG. So, whaddaya say?

Wolfmother
23-11-2009, 19:29
nice copy and paste list

so your freindly dark elf list has 2 hydras pendant of Khaeleth, a dragon and the ring of hotek well done

if this is freindly i would like to see the cheesey lists ;)

grumbaki
23-11-2009, 19:36
Yup, its a list with all of the things that people complain about with dark elves. If you want a friendly list...

1. Take some more infantry maybe? Something besides ASF blackguard would make it more friendly.
2. Drop a hydra in favor of two repeater bolt throwers? They still work well and people will hate you less.
3. Spread out the "unkillable items" onto more than one character. A dreadlord with just regeneration or just the inverse wardsave. He'll still be effective but he'll have a chance of dying. Your opponents will thank you.

Anyways, just my advice on how to make it into something more friendly without ruining your list.

MTUCache
23-11-2009, 19:54
The only thing friendly I'm seeing here is that you didn't take multiple units of Shades instead of the Chariot and Knights and you don't have any magic-offense. That's not that much of a concession either (well, maybe the Chariot is), as those points are still going into rock-hard terror causers that are tough to get points out of.

Drop the Hydras for Execs/Corsairs, trade the BG for Witch Elves, trade the Dragon Lord for a Hag/Cauldron to make a Khainite-themed list, and then maybe you'd have a friendly list.

As it is, you're only about 12 Shades and 2xL2s away from what Ben Curry used to win the UKGT heat (a non-comp tourney) with a couple weekends ago. :p

darkdoom
24-11-2009, 09:42
Absolutly with out magic defence: good aginst draws, weakness/frindliness against anybody else.

Wolfmother
24-11-2009, 09:44
Absolutly with out magic defence: good aginst draws, weakness/frindliness against anybody else.

dude he has the ring of hotek one of the best magic defenses in the game

DarkIronfist
24-11-2009, 15:36
It's not a friendly list, it is, as the title explains, a "Friendly" list, meaning the exact opposite, hehe, i thought u guys would get that.. As i tried to explain, recently more and more people in my gaming enviroment started to cheese out their lists, and in order to avoid getting my ass kicked every time, i felt the need to do the same.. All I really want is advice on how to make the list even more cheesie, ( YES! oh my GOD). I figured what the hell, if the guys i play with want to go cheese so badly, I'll show them cheese..

MTUCache
24-11-2009, 16:48
Ah, well, if you're looking to cheese it out you're going in the right way.

One of the things that DE do the best, and also the cheapest is magic. Not only will including a couple of level 2s in there boost your defensive capability, but it should give you at least a decent offensive magic phase.

If you drop one master and the Chariot, you should be able to find yourself almost enough points (250 or so) to get a couple of sorceresses in there.

Again, if you want to go for a complete points-denial, heavy-shooty list, it's quite easy to trade out both the BG and the Knights for Shade units. 27 Shades and 15 DRs will dish out quite a bit of firepower (especially with the assassin), and they're also quite easy to hide away and avoid giving your opponent anything to go after other than your dragon and hydras.

DarkIronfist
24-11-2009, 21:13
Yeah, I thought about fielding 2 lvl 2's aswell, but i came to the conclusion that i get a better magic defence by fielding the ring of hotek alone, than i do by fielding 2 lvl 2's. I could combine them, but i feel that the ring would be of too much hindrance for the sorceresses. By removing the ring and adding the sorceresses i feel that I'm to exposed against some of the really evil magic-heavy lists out there.. and i ofcourse loose a master..

With regards to your advice on scrapping the BG and COK for shade units, wont this leave my few heavy hitters, primarily the hydras to exposed, and without enough protection?

Thanks for some interesting pointers (hopefully in the right direction). I will ponder a bit and take them into consideration, although further comments are much appreciated.. :)

tmarichards
24-11-2009, 21:30
The hydras sholdn't be too exposed at all, with their ability to move through forests unhindered (yes, they MOVE as skirmishers) you can keep them hidden from most shooting and the Ring's bubble will keep them safe from most magic. Also, the fact that they're rock hard means they should get their points back at least, and anything that's shooting at them isn't ripping the soft stuff to pieces. Use the shades/assassin to take out war machines and just make sure you think through your deployment/movement phase, with such a fast, manoueverable list you can afford to keep the hydras back for a turn until the threats to them have gone.

Also, I really like the Cloak on an assassin, but in this case, it's a waste of 20pts, which is another Shade- with nothing else whatsoever to do in your magic phase, it'll get dispelled every time even if you kill all their wizards (still got 2 dispel dice).

What I'd recommend is dropping the Knights and the Black Guard becasue they don't really fit in an avoidance list, and instead taking a BSB on dark steed with the pendant and sword of might to take out skirmishers/small units/war machines, and put the ring on the dragon, then for your last hero slot take a 150pt scroll caddy.

darkdoom
25-11-2009, 03:33
Of course the ring of Hortek is very good esp. for 25 points but with that allon you still don't have a magic defence. You'd have to be within 12" range of ALL your enemies mages and also then the ring bearer is always a target. Let's imagen your enemie takes lore of mettal. The rule of burning iron has a range of 24" and could probably kill your master what would leave you tatally un protectet for the rest of the game.
Additionally with a good deploy ment also your mages can avoid your ring, just put them in your xbowmen(best with sacrafical dagger).

tmarichards
25-11-2009, 05:14
[QUOTE=darkdoom;4157563]Of course the ring of Hortek is very good esp. for 25 points but with that allon you still don't have a magic defence. You'd have to be within 12" range of ALL your enemies mages

Trying to put the Ring within 12" of the enemies casters is a really bad idea and completely misses the point of the Ring. It specifically says ''any Wizard (friend or foe)attempting to cast OR TARGET a spell within 12" of the caster will suffer a Miscast on the the roll of any double''

The Ring of Hotek creates a 12" bubble around your character into which your opponent must either play safe and not cast any spells, or has to risk any multi-dice casts. Due to the fact that only one model has to be within 12" for the unit to be covered, you can cover a massive chunk of your army (as well as juggling it to allow you to cast out of it, I've found this works very well in a defensive set-up)

I don't know whether I've just got the wrong idea, but the Ring of Hotek seems to me to be a defensive option more than anything else, if I want to go offensive to take out mages then suicide dark riders/flying assassins are my weapons of choice in my usual DE avoidance list

DarkIronfist
25-11-2009, 16:43
@ tmarichards, ofcourse you're right, the ring is completely useless as it is, unless i add some magic muscle behind it.. Either remove it all together or add mages..

There's a few things I'm conserned about regarding u'r tips.

1. Dropping the pendant on the dreadlord to give him the ring instead, i feel he becomes waaay to squishy without the pendant and only a 1+ armour save. This almost rules out the option of adding to lvl 2's..

Taking a master on a dark steed as BSB and give him the ring sounds good and all, but i fear he might be a very easy target to deal with, and my opponent will have a laugh robbing me of my best magic defense..

I could keep one unit, either BG or COK and give the ring to the champion in that unit, preferably a unit of COK's, as they can take a bigger beating, and still add 2 lvl 2's and some more shades..

If I drop the BG, the COK, the COC, the two masters, the harpies and the cloack on the assassin I have 766 points availible.. The COK's with the ring come to 192 points, so if I keep them in I have 574 points to go..

My apologise in advance for any typing errors, as I have just had my tonsils removed, I still have one foot in lalala-land ;)