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RadStar
18-05-2005, 08:04
Heya,

Ive got friends who could be good at gaming with miniatures.. the problem is I cant introduce them to Warhammer Fantasy or 40k because it costs way too much..

I am willing to start a new game system.. but am trying to figure out the best one to start with my friends.. I am thinking something like Inquistor.. Blood Bowl.. or anything that wont cost too much and wont require too much painting.

Advice and thoughts?

Thanks
Roger

StugMeister
18-05-2005, 08:10
I think Bloodbowl's probably your best bet.

I'd say Necromunda but as your gang grows more painting and conversion is needed.

Serpent
18-05-2005, 10:37
BloodBowl hands down. Easy to understand, fun to play (with a humourous kick-off-table anything is possible), and a very small amount of models and dice needed to play.

Serpent

McMullet
18-05-2005, 11:19
I would say Necromunda, or better still Mordheim. It all depends on whether you want to introduce them to 40K or Fantasy. These two have the advantage that they use use a set of core rules which are nearly the same as the "parent" games, without some of the more complex rules and strategies. If you play Mordheim, you can get a feel for the basics of Fantasy, without having to worry about charge reactions, combat resolution or manoeuvring ranked units, all of which are pretty daunting for someone who's never played a miniatures game before, and are probably going to cause them to a) be constantly confused and have no idea what's going on, and b) lose unless you tell them what to do every phase of every turn.

Plus of course you have the cost issue - you can make a gang or warband for £20-30, and don't have too much to paint.

Blood Bowl is pretty simple, but your friends are still going ot have to start pretty much at square 1 if they try to progress to any other game - but then, it does seem like a good laugh (I've read the rules but never actually played).

Inquisitor is pretty complicated, and maybe a bit abstract - since the purpose of the game is not necessarily to adhere to the rules but more to create a narrative. This may be a strange concept to non-gamers, unles they're familiar with RPGs.

rkunisch
18-05-2005, 11:22
My recommendation would be Mordheim. It is easy scaleable and you may even reuse the minis for Warhammer.

BloodBowl is more like a board game than a table top game.

Have fun,

Rolf.

Jedi152
18-05-2005, 11:23
Hows about (if you already have it, or can get it) Warhammer Quest?

It's a great game, you only need one miniature to play, and people can really get into their characters.

Or Mordheim? Its a good introduction to fantasy, and many of the rules are the same, making learning WFB that bit easier if they decide to move onto that.

Failing that, definitely BB. Just remember to tell them that its set in an alternative version of the WFB world. Then they won't get too confused about why chaos and the like are busy throwing footballs around instead of mashing the Empire to pieces.

Bubble Ghost
18-05-2005, 13:30
Failing that, definitely BB. Just remember to tell them that its set in an alternative version of the WFB world. Then they won't get too confused about why chaos and the like are busy throwing footballs around instead of mashing the Empire to pieces.

Quite, I find non-geeks actually deal with that concept far better. "It's a comedy version of the same thing? Cool." This is as opposed to endless stuffy discussion about what's canon and what isn't and why, and various heads exploding as people completely fail to grasp the idea that they aren't supposed to use one game as a starting point for talking about the other.

Anyway: Blood Bowl. It may simple but it's also complex (as opposed to simplistic and complicated), and shares enough with non-board-based mini games - its Agility chart is exactly the same as GW's other games' BS to hit chart, for a start - that it's a great intro to those as well. It's the friendly front end of GW gaming.

neXus6
18-05-2005, 13:50
Yeah I to have to say blood bowl.
For Bubble Ghost's reasons. On top of which you only need 16 models max...and even that is rare unless you play a very long league.
The board only limits the movement rules they will learn, blocking introduces them to artillery dice, armour rolls...vehicle penetration, AG - shooting, And whats more important, it is an incredibly fun game, really fun even if you loose unless somehow you end up with a boring game...very very unlikely.

plasmadaemon
18-05-2005, 15:38
i would say epic, because it's cheaper than all the other games and the rules aren't that hard to master.

but if your friend wants big minis then necromunda is the way to go.

Killgore
18-05-2005, 16:51
Space Hulk, nice and easy and people can relate to films like Aliens when playng it

astrocortex
18-05-2005, 19:49
i would say epic, because it's cheaper than all the other games and the rules aren't that hard to master.

but if your friend wants big minis then necromunda is the way to go.

I have to agree with you mate! :)

I started out with Epic myself and I'd say the latest version would be a really good introduction to gaming.

For bigger minis I'd say either Bloodbowl, Necromunda or Mordheim. Of those two I would probably say Mordheim (although I'm a Necro player myself) because you can still get the boxed game from Mailorder with all that lovely terrain in it. The last I heard the Necromunda terrain was a bit hard to track down and terrain is essential for both games.

neXus6
18-05-2005, 20:46
i would say epic, because it's cheaper than all the other games and the rules aren't that hard to master.

Epic is very much not cheaper. Atleast from what I have seen. The price is the only thing that has put me off playing Epic. :confused:

mattjgilbert
18-05-2005, 23:00
I guess things like Warhammer quest and Space Hulk would be great but they are not contemporary and may be hard to find (and subsequently become expensive looking for them).

Bloodbowl, Mordheim or Necromunda sound the way to go but it is down to them - given the choice and the genre each system represents, which would they go for?

Captain Brown
19-05-2005, 00:29
The way my group has always done it is bringing them out to watch/particpate in a small 40K game (legacy of the Battle at the Farm from Rogue Trader).

Make sure you use painted miniatures and limit the troops and weapons and have experienced players with the new folks. Let the new people give general descriptions of what they want to do or else experienced folks explain why they are moving that squad behind the rubble as they advance, etc.

Makes for lots of fun, in fact these games can be more rewarding than a large battle as it often comes down to a handful of combatants left on each side and every dice roll is critical.

fracas
19-05-2005, 03:45
i would say Battle Fleet Gothic
inexpensive
nice models
easily identifiable with most people

neXus6
19-05-2005, 03:50
Space ship combat more identifiable than no rules american football. Even being Scottish and not American I know which I identify more with between blood bowl and BFG.

Of course that again brings up what the friends are into. If they totaly hate sports then Blood Bowl won't be for them, but if they are sports fans then they will more likely than not love the game.

Ouroboros
19-05-2005, 05:48
There's only really two choices here for me, Gothic and Necro.

On gothic's side for less than 100 bucks two of your friends can get great core starter forces and all they need to play. Painting is ridiculously easy and the game is simple enough to learn quickly yet complex enough to remain interesting. It really depends on what type of guys they are though. If they like the whole sci-fi spaceship combat thing or even historical naval warfare they'll like gothic.

If on the other hand they're not so much into sci-fi then a game like Necro is pretty easy to get people interested in. Just about everybody can easily get into training up a bunch of gang thugs and making them shoot at each other. It's a more universal concept and will probably be seen as less nerdy by your friends. You also don't need to use the complex campaign rules right away. Necro has rules for one off games to. On the downside they don't make the necro starter set anymore so you'll have to buy everything seperate from GW mail order or e-bay which can get annoying if not so much expensive in the latter case. Necro also requires them to paint human figures and faces so it's a lot harder than gothic but on the upside it transitions much easier into games like 40k and fantasy where as gothic pretty much stands all on its own.

Delicious Soy
19-05-2005, 08:20
I'd say one of BFG, Necro or Mordheim, mainly because they're all relatively inexpensive and offer a good entrance level to wargaming concepts. If they just want to wargame with minimal RPG bits, then I'd say go with BFG, anyone who watched Sci-Fi before can identify with big spaceships blowing the crap out of each other. Plus it doesn't have that 'post-game' bits that Necro or Mord, not that its bad but some people may not want that from a wargame.

If they were a bit more RPGish I'd say go Inquisitor, its flexible enough so you can play with four to five 28mm models rather cheaply.

rogal_dorn
19-05-2005, 08:34
Flames of War or Warmachine. You can start Warmachine with "Twisted metal", using just a warcaster and a jack. And Flames of war you will get quire a sizable force very cheaply.

McMullet
19-05-2005, 12:11
I'd say one of BFG, Necro or Mordheim, mainly because they're all relatively inexpensive and offer a good entrance level to wargaming concepts. If they just want to wargame with minimal RPG bits, then I'd say go with BFG, anyone who watched Sci-Fi before can identify with big spaceships blowing the crap out of each other. Plus it doesn't have that 'post-game' bits that Necro or Mord, not that its bad but some people may not want that from a wargame.

If they were a bit more RPGish I'd say go Inquisitor, its flexible enough so you can play with four to five 28mm models rather cheaply.

There are rules in both Mordheim and Necromunda for single games; basically, it becomes a game of WH Skirmish or Kill Team, with slightly more interesting rules and a les specific scenario. I think BFG loses out because it is still a bit pricier than Necro or MH, and has much less in common with the core games.

Bubble Ghost
19-05-2005, 14:01
Battlefleet Gothic as an intro to miniature games!? Start slow and simple, you want the numbers and angles in the background. The absolute upper limit on real ale-drinking beardiness I'd go is Mordheim or Necromunda.

Inquisitor can be filtered so it's not that complicated at all, since the central mechanisms of actions and percentage chances are very intuitive even for someone new to dice game concepts - so you could use that I suppose.


If on the other hand they're not so much into sci-fi then a game like Necro is pretty easy to get people interested in.

Alternatively, if they're not so much into sci-fi, you could always play something set in Warhammer instead... :eek:

Ethereal Alpaca
19-05-2005, 20:49
It all depends on your friend's preferences. If they like sci-fi better than fantasy, start with either Necromunda or Inquisitor. Preferably Inquisitor IMO, as it is more involved with the 40k universe, and so would be better for leading them onto 40K proper.

If, however, they are more inclined towards fantasy, start them out with either Mordheim or some games Warhammer Skirmish. Neither are better in particular, since they are both skirmish level games requiring only a small number of models, ad include scope for pretty much any races.

Shuya
19-05-2005, 23:21
Poke them in the eye with a brettonian knight that'll introduce them,

But on a serious note mordheim is a good idea as too is necromunda

twisted_mentat
20-05-2005, 04:54
Its too bad Space Hulk isn't availble anymore....it is perfect to introduce people to gaming. Bloodbowl would be my second choice.

for the Main games, try some 40k in 40 minutes...or warbands. They use the basic rules, but are quick and easy to play.

Talasmin would be good as well....

Flashheart
20-05-2005, 09:16
I would say Bloodbowl with Mordheim as a strong second choice.

de Selby
20-05-2005, 11:34
Confrontation can be played with a minimum of figures. The rules are a bit lumpy to my mind, but the figures are exquisite. Cool miniatures are what got me into wargaming.

Lainer
22-05-2005, 18:42
Mordheim would be my choice

The boyz
30-05-2005, 11:46
Yeah I agree Mordheim would be good.

TomKamakazi
30-05-2005, 13:08
If you want a dirt cheep blood bowl team, try Shadow Forge (http://www.shadowforge.com.au/characters/index.html). They're not GW minis but they are $4 AUD each!! That's about £1.60

golemg ames
22-03-2006, 09:41
I suggest you split the money to buy a couple of D&D prepainted boxes from the cheapest expansion you can find, and use one of the freely available rulesets -- there are so many on the net. If you want to playtest, I can send you a copy of my universal skirmish rules WARBOUND.

---------------description follows-----------------taken from another post
Hi everybody,
I spent a lot of time (actually years!) on WARBOUND, a set of Universal skirmish rules that allow to paly with any miniature you might already have.

Here are the selling points (?) of my system (currently version 9.4 of rules):

1) skirmish scale (1 model is 1 man)
2) play with 25-28mm miniatures(no problem to adapt it to 15mm)- ANY miniature you already own
3) uses only d10
4)buckets of dice approach (one die per attack is rolled)
4) any miniature, any setting, any fluff you want — you provide the fluff, be it the game of the film of the book, your favorite anime series, your fantasy RPG world -- you decide
5) rules formovement, melee and missile combat,morale, magic, psis, hi-tech weapons, pre-battle activities, campaign guidelines, special terrain types, vehicles, warmachines, etc etc (the book wants to be VERY complete so please tell me if I was overlooking something!)
6) units can be composed of 1 single mini, more minis or lots of minis – you decide
7) modular complexity – you decide how many rules to use beyond the basics
8)players alternate activating one unit at a time, but non-active units may "react" if targeted, affected, etc even if it's not their "turn";
9) an exhaustive advantage and disadvantage list lets you create any soldier from any time or setting, with a (tweakable) point system to make sure there is some sort of balance for those interested in competitive, tournament style play;
10) plays fast (two rolls are needed to remove a target from the game, one roll to hit and one roll to kill it, which is inclusive of armor/toughness modifiers — movement and morale rules are about the same complexity of commercially available fantasy rulesets)
11) depending on advantages used, the level of "heroism" or "realism" of your troops can be tailor-suited to your tastes
12) play with ANY miniatures you want — no "official" minis, no commercial gimmick (the authors play with a mix of models dating back to the 80's to current prepainted and clicky stuff)
13) any bases (as long as the models are single-based— if you have them multiple based you can still play of course but you'll be restricted in what kind of formations the unit can do)
14) there are a LOT of pre-designed units available in the book but the game does NOT force you to use army lists or to buy any additional army book

Now the bad parts:
1) the writing is unedited
2) I am a non-native English language speaker
3) some parts are unfinished
4) the book is 220+ pages long
5) I'm requiring that playtesters show some real commitment and actually play the rules at least a couple of times.

The game will go into publication when I'll feel that the rules work. I'll have them edited and self-publish them. It's going to be a big book with a lot of illustrations, a website devoted to it, and so on.

Any one interested? Send me mail at andreasfiligoi AT gmail.com

Thanks for reading this!

Griefbringer
22-03-2006, 11:10
Well, for the ease of it, some CMG (Collectable Miniature Game) would be the easiest choice - pre-painted miniatures and rules that are intended to be ease to learn.

For GW games, I would probably vote for Mordheim and Necromunda - though Mordheim enjoys better model availability, due to a lot of WHFB models being easily useable there. For using 40K models for Necromunda, opportunities are more restricted.

emperorattack
26-03-2006, 03:47
Necromunda 'cause its a mix of40k and fantasy

TanithScout
26-03-2006, 06:36
dark age hands down, great minis, and the cost is way way low, plus the game system is super fun

www.dark-age.com

KnightoNi1894
26-03-2006, 11:56
Definately WARMACHINE. $40 gets you enough to play many, many battle box games.

Knight