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View Full Version : VC Skeletons hw&shields or spears&shields



fall3nang3l
27-11-2009, 09:09
Just wondering what you guys think.

What are the pros and cons of using each loadout?

jthdotcom
27-11-2009, 10:16
Spears you can fight in 2 ranks, so more attacks, hand weapon and shield gives you an extra +1 to your armour in combat, with spears you only get 2 ranks fighting if you don't charge

jthdotcom
27-11-2009, 10:17
Yay, 100 posts LOL

Cambion Daystar
27-11-2009, 10:18
General consensus seems to be:
Don't expect the skeletons to do anything in combat, and try to reduce your losses. Thats why most people go for HW+Shield combo.

danny-d-b
27-11-2009, 10:25
General consensus seems to be:
Don't expect the ranked infantry cheaper than 10 points to do anything in combat, and try to reduce your losses. Thats why most people go for HW+Shield combo.

inporved it for you!

Eternus
27-11-2009, 10:30
I have units with both Spears + Sheilds and HW + Sheild, and the Spear armed units tend to be the Anvil and the HW + Sheild can be used more aggressively because they don't become less effective by charging.

Combat characters tend to go in HW + Sheild units and Necromancers tend to go in Spear + Sheild units.

Gokamok
27-11-2009, 12:56
I often try to squeeze in the points for Spears in tournament lists, since there are situations where you'll want to go for more attacks instead of the better AS. If you start out with small units and raise them bigger, you'll need to cast IoN 1 extra time to make up for the points spent on the spears, and I usually find the flexibilty to be worth it.

wilsongrahams
27-11-2009, 14:58
Remember your spearmen can opt to use hand weapons instead so if you can afford the points they are worth the flexibility. Also, go for small units and raise the rest of the unit, using your sword-armed skellies to fight the enemy til reinforcements haver been built up.

fall3nang3l
27-11-2009, 19:51
My major question is that i have 40 skeletons built with hw&shield. and i have enough boxes to make 60 more. how many of each should i have? If i take lets say 1 unit of 15 with spears in normal games (which is what i consider on doing). how many can i expect to raise each game and how many to build accordingly?

Cambion Daystar
28-11-2009, 08:39
What we usually do around here is, make you units half spears/half handweapen and shield. That way, just say the front half of the units has the weapons they are armed with, and the rest is filler. (For example, a unit of spears has 2 or 3 ranks of spears, and the back ranks handweapon and shield)

wilsongrahams
28-11-2009, 12:18
Personally I'd go for the other 60 as spears, as you can then use the first thirty as three units of ten and raise the rest as the game goes along. You want either half and half or more spears really in my experience as the points cost is worth it when you will usually lose your whole front rank anyway. Being able to fight back is always worth it.

GenerationTerrorist
29-11-2009, 01:21
I'd never waste points on upgrading something from the start of the game that you can easily raise back up en-masse, given the right VC powers.

IMHO, Skeletons are not meant to do a great deal of damage - They are there as a more durable alternative to Zombies. 4+ Save HW/S combo is my preferred option to tie a unit down for a turn or two until something a bit hittier comes along to join the fun.

wilsongrahams
29-11-2009, 13:59
I prefer to buy the first ten or so of each unit and raise the rest so that I may have a Command Group with them. For that reason, I like to buy some units with spears. Skeletons are okay at holding off the enemy but even hw & shield won't help them much, but with an extra rank at least you can kill a couple models and improve your combat resolution score.

I don't bother buying zombies in my army points cost as they are far easier to raise en masse, and are fine without a standard or musician.

Eternus
30-11-2009, 11:00
Just having read the last three or four posts, I have to say my approach is different - I like to take large units of Skeletons and Zombies to start with and keep them topped up, rather than using all my power dice to make small units into something useful - what happens if you have been unlucky with casting and you start losing spellcasters?

Fear only counts in large amounts so if you start with big units, your units are already a threat. Also, I prefer to spend the power dice on cool spells like Curse of Years.

wilsongrahams
30-11-2009, 11:23
In my experience, I can usually raise plenty of troops before my opponent decides to start nullifying as they save their dispel pool for the nastier powers, so they tend to come off less effectively.

With buying three small skelly units and raising the rest as I march towards the enemy I can usually have three full units of 20 before i get there including casualties from shooting along the way. I just find it better to spend the points on other units where my magic can heal them less effectively. I think it must depend upon your tactics.

Your approach will give you the hammer blow when you get there that your opponent will struggle with due to the fear, wheras I concentrate more on delaying using zombies whilst I make up the skellies which won't do so much on their own, but then I have black knights and two grave guard units to act as my hammer. I find it better to buy these to begin with because my opponent will try dispelling against raising grave guard before he will catch on and stop me raising skellies. However I would think I will try your method for my next game as I will create a new army list.

One last note, is that the odd bound spell, and the order to cast your spells will sometimes mean your opponent wastes his dispels, having some left after the magic phase, or using them on spells which weren't your main priority. Swapping the order each magic phase along with a slowly widening grin tends to help. If I raise zombies last one turn, my opponent will then dispel early, so then I will start doing the zombie raising early, then he will stop dispelling, thinking I am working up to something, whilst I then raise skellies. Often I don't cast anything other than Raise Dead in a turn then the next I will go all offensive apart from the Necromancers who will replenish losses.

I have found fear to be less effective than hyped in my games, but this may be because I do not take the larger units you mention and wield this to my advantage.
Like I said, next time I will! I'm a flexible general, and like to try new tricks even once I have a winning formula - this helps prevent games becoming boring too.

Eternus
30-11-2009, 11:33
It's pretty scary for your opponent when you put down two units of 30 Skeletons and a unit of 30 Zombies. They're not even manageable until he gets them down to 20 or less.

Keller
30-11-2009, 15:16
I like my skellies either way, with HW or spears. I tend to field a unit of each. Handweapons are probably the best way to go, but spears can be useful against weaker opponents. Largely, though, I just like the way spear-units look on the table compared to hw units.

As for the starting unit size, I always take my units at combat strength to start. Many people like to take the base 10 then raise, but I prefer not to. It ends up being a 2250-2500 point army after turn 2 or 3, which is hardly fair for a 2000k game. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, just that I don't care to do it.

Harwammer
30-11-2009, 17:52
Pro: Different weapon options give different units of skeletons different identities

Con: spears aren't the most economical use of points for a VC list

VC are widely regarded as one of the top armies so I don't mind taking suboptimal choices. One of my skeleton units will always have spears occasionally this will act as a bonus and I like the fact they aren't obliged to use their spears over their hand weapons.