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Pushkin
27-11-2009, 16:13
I was looking through the Eldar Codex and wanted to see the stats for a Seer council on jetbikes. I've never faced one, but i've heard a lot about them.

Is a seer council just an upgraded retinue of warlocks?

It just that it doesn't seems as obviously threatening as various other deadly units i've heard mentioned, e.g. Nobz Bikers

I mean even with warseer psychic powers, warlocks wouldn't be brilliant in either close combat or shooting. Is there some subtle tactical advantage i'm missing?

cheers

Hicks
27-11-2009, 16:19
A seer council is indeed just a farseer with his warlocks on jetbikes. The great thing about them is that they can take a huge amount of punishment thanks to their good saves and rerolls. This allows them to be able to go near threatening units and unleash many heavy flamer shots on their target before charging or pop tanks with lances.

Pushkin
27-11-2009, 16:32
Oh i get it it now!!

so the warlocks have T4 and a 4++ save and uses the Farseer's fortune to get the re-roll.

Cheers, i've never faced one before and have heard lots of bad things!

PhalanxLord
27-11-2009, 16:35
The main problems with a seer council is that with fortune they all have 3+ re-rollable armour saves and 4+ re-rollable invulnerable saves. They also have 2 attacks each that always wound on a 2+ (witchblade and pistol), are S9 against vehicles, can turbo-boost for a 3+ re-rollable cover save, can shut down the opponents psychic powers, and can spam warlock powers. I've already seen a lone farseer hold up a full unit of GH for several turns in close combat. I don't even want to imagine a full seer council.

jy2
27-11-2009, 16:41
Actually they're only T3. They're highly survivable but will fall to massed-fire like almost everything else. Just don't waste your power shots (high S/low AP) on them. And honestly they're not really great in cc as they don't have any power weapons, so they'll want to avoid cc if at all possible (unless they're able to weaken you substantially with their shooting). Get a cheap tarpit unit to tie up their 600pt+ unit in cc (easier said than done) with a bait-&-charge maneuver and then concentrate on destroying the rest of their army.

Spacker
27-11-2009, 16:52
Actually they're only T3.
See rulebook page 53, Bikes and Jetbikes add +1 to T, so they're T4.

Kildash
27-11-2009, 17:04
can turbo-boost for a 3+ re-rollable cover save

This is illegal though. I personally play a jetlock-council, and though I hate admitting it, it IS illegal to do fortune and then turbo-boost. Turbo-boosters rule says "may not perform any other voluntary action in that turn"... note that it does NOT say "for the remainder of that turn". In other words, you can't fortune and boost. That'd be awesome though, but it is sadly illegal. :(

SonOfSquee
27-11-2009, 18:23
However jetbikes get a 3+ armor save so they have a rerollable 3+/4++ save.

Nyyman
27-11-2009, 18:27
Brrr, don't wanna see those counsils in my table.
But if I would, I would play them with Spashh Puppies and have Rune Priest spam to neglate the psychic powers for good.

Apocalypse_Nigh
27-11-2009, 19:03
You could always Fortune the warlocks, then turbo-boost the warlocks (getting the 3+ cover) then having the farseer use their normal 12" move to get back into coherency. Keep in mind you'll have to have you warlock in such a formation so that, even after they move 12"+, the farseer will still be able to get back into coherency.

SonOfSquee
27-11-2009, 19:09
I find these tactics to be sketchy at best. They are an extremely resiliant unit and I believe these tactics are not needed.

FarseerPhil
27-11-2009, 19:36
The official ruling from referees at 2 seperate GTs were that you may cast fortune and then turbo-boost in the same turn (this is second-hand information though). I however see this as a pretty douche-bag move and have decided not to use it - I regularly field a biked Seer Council in my army - usually 5-6 Warlocks and a Farseer. It is a very powerful unit, but can be brought down easily if used incorrectly. Massed plasma fire (from combi-plasmas on Sternguards f.ex) or even a large number of rapid fire bolter shots can bring down a council quite easily, so you have to be very careful with placement and movement.

Vissah
27-11-2009, 20:01
Check out this guys blog mate he plays every game with a seer counsil on jetbikes.
Just look at some batreps and you will learn a lot from how to use them.

http://saimhann.blogspot.com/

Archangel_Ruined
27-11-2009, 20:05
Filth. Filthy space elves. That's all you need to know about jet biking seer councils. F-I-L-T-H.

leeoaks
27-11-2009, 20:07
they rock!!! enough said.

Hicks
27-11-2009, 20:15
For those in the know, what would you guys think of using 2 seer councils on bikes at 2000pts? Let's say 1 farseer and 5 warlocks each.

Effective?

Cheezy?

Point sink?

Netfreakk
27-11-2009, 20:33
I say point sink. They're not that killy, and they're only really meant to tar pit, contest, and maybe kill things if they get enough destructors in place.

Instead of putting more points into tar pits, I think you should get a killy unit that can hit whatever they're tarpitting. My brother likes playing shining spears with them. Fortuned Shining spears with 3++ cover saves and then smashing into whatever the seer council is holding is devastating. Other things I've seen in tar-pit then banshees in a wave serpent doing the same thing after.

SonOfSquee
27-11-2009, 20:37
I think possibly either 1 big jetlock council or 2 mounted waveserpent councils would be best. Throw Eldrad in one for ultacheesey goodness.

On a side note I think jetbike councils devalue the eldar army. Despite the fact that I use one 7 man council for tournament use and competitive friendly games all the time, I feel that seer councils are a jack of all trade unit. Which is good in most perspectives. However, in an army full of specialized units seer councils provide a bit too much "easy" play for me. But hey, I dont think anyone will say that aren't sweet to play.

damascusxie
27-11-2009, 20:57
Seer councils are more Killy than you think with enhance and their witchblades. I run a serpent council with Yriel to clear termies and plague marines. Even the normal warlock hits on 3's and wounds on 2's, which makes up for the average number of attacks. A council can take down hordes with destructor and vehicle wall with s9 at rear armor.

The only real trouble is really heavy infantry with 2+ saves or FNP. Two jetseer councils will eat up some 1k pts, so as long as you take the proper support I can see a double threat like that being effective. I say you should proxy some guardian jetbikes and try it, you may be surprised.

DeadlySquirrel
27-11-2009, 21:26
Try adding an autrach on jetbike to boost it's killyness

susu.exp
27-11-2009, 21:29
Against some armies they are very deadly - Hordes in particular. A big council can charge 2 of those Ig tank formations and blow them up easily - Tau gunlines, Orks, DE, other Eldar. They do pretty well against MEQs as well.
So they are rather powerful. Then there are some units that will happily take their charge and stand: Terminators, Nobs, Pleague marines.

One tournament I regularly attend has a dual council army constantly winning. Id never played it but seen it wreak havoc on neighbouring tables. Last time I went I faced it in round one and one of my PM units took the charge of both councils (by the end of the game it still was over 50% strenght, one council was gone and the other down to 4 models).

They are rock solid and taking 2 can break the game of most opponents. But it can also fail spectacularly against anything with a good save and/or FnP - Im not sure if it also applies to Crons - they can WBB against them.

damascusxie
27-11-2009, 21:37
Crons basically lose combat and get run down.