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Krueger Condail
30-11-2009, 05:00
So my friend is getting into ogres and wants warseers opinion on his skrag build

Skrag the slaughter 400

3 butchers each with a dispel scroll and a power stone and each with 2 tooth gnoblars

4 units of 3 vanilla bulls

2 units of 25 gnoblars

2 units of 3 ironguts

4 gorgers

1 scraplauncher

He wanted to do this list. More for fun but also able to bring the hurt when neccessary personnally think its pretty mean and going to give my brettonians a run for my money

Jind_Singh
30-11-2009, 15:31
I think this list will run into the same problems I did on the weekend at a local store tourny (were I came 9th from 10 people! :(:()
I took a pure mounted Empire army with 3 warrior priests and a level 2 wizard. Inititally the army does well but it does not stand up to wars of attrition. As the game turns move on the army becomes less and less effective (MSU is fine until you start taking hits), you'll kill the chaff of the enemy army fairly quickly and easily, but you soon run out of steam!
I am also collecting Ogres and am torn on how to make an effective list - I ran a thread on Ogres in general discussion (Can Ogres cut the mustard) and someone else had one called Walk a mile in these shoes - Ogres (Something like that) and there was some good advice on the Ogre Kingdoms.
I also posted a 2250pt Skragg list in there and got some good feeback.
I think that 4 scrolls is excessive - 2 is more than enough at any points level especially with seven dispell die, he needs to get a bangstick in there for bound magic goodness, and the other 25 pts on something else.
If he is needing 4 scrolls per game he must be playing some pretty magic heavy lists to feel he needs that much protection! Bangstick is pretty decent also, its one of those that pretty much has to be dispelled so you can count on it to make an opponent waste a dispell die.

Krueger Condail
30-11-2009, 17:38
Well he only has 3 scrolls but I will tell him about the bangstick which definetley sounds like a good idea. So should he not do msu units with his ogres?

Jind_Singh
01-12-2009, 04:40
lol, no he has too - he has no choice as the MSU for ogres is a proven tactic - but one that takes a LOT of getting used to - I am a fairly experianced warhammer player for the most part and playing with MSU was a real brain busta for me!
I have been alternating between lists for ages now - I think I'll just have to test them to see what works...

Take the following for example

1) Maneaters - Half the people hate them, half love them. Half say they are overcosted and not effective, but then you read posts made by people who favour them - they LOVE them! And I cant blame them, the favoured use for them is in units of 3 with brace of handguns - they get an amazing 25-30" range str 4, 2 shots EACH hitting on 4s! Thats at long range! They always stand and shoot AND once in combat the pistols count as additional handweapons - FIVE str 5 attacks each!

2) Ogre Bulls - some say just units of 3 with bellowers, some favour units of 6 with all the trimmings (light armour, iron fists), its so tough deciding what works!

Speaking of what works

3) Gorgors - everyone goes on about how great they are! I agree, but I'm torn at taking either 2 units of Maneaters, or 1 unit with a Giant - so not sure how to squeeze in the Gorgor!

4) Characters - Hunter, for most its a hate-hate relationship but I love the model, and I think he has a place in the army. Last time I used him he shot a Doomwheel in his 1st turn, wounded it. I got lucky as the Doomwheel failed his stength test and took another one! Then he sent the Sabretusks on a sucide charge against a unit of slaves that had a level 2 bunkered in there - wounded it once, nearly got the second wound, but luck didnt hold out. I lost combat due to combat res but as they flee 3D6 they easily outpaced the Skaven! He then charged a unit with a BSB and killed the Skaven BSB - Yeay! :D
4) Butchers - They say take 2-3 or none, I'd almost have to agree. The Skragg list is very potent for that reason with say 2 butchers at least in support as they can sit back and throw out spells on 3+. The basic missle is ok, it's str 2 with no armour saves at 2D6 hits I belive. The other spells give you +1 str, T, regen, etc.
5) Brusiers - point for point they dont seem to cut it - so expensive, only just slightly more effective than Ironguts for a comparable price point, and unless the game is under 2000pts they dont seem to be taken.
6) Lead Belchers - Units of 2-3 with a bellower, great distraction unit that can kill enemy fast cav units - but more often its the threat of being shot that is more effective than their actual shots! Can be nasty though as they hit on 4's with armour piercing, potentially max of 10 shots - thats harder hitting that Empire handgunners who are nasty! Only downside is you roll the dreaded misfire....
In your suggested list above I would consider trading the Scrap launcher for a different unit - in this case maybe Lead Belchers

CrownAxe
01-12-2009, 04:48
don't bother with Tooth Gnoblars ever. They don't do anything if your casting on 3+ (a natural roll of 2 or less always fails), You're going to roll 2 dice for 6+ anyways so it's not going to add much and you will pretty much never get as high as 9+

Jind_Singh
01-12-2009, 08:29
Ever is so.....ever!!! sometimes you got 5 points that you cant do jack all with, may as well throw in a tooth gnoblar if there is nothing else to spend points on!!!

And sometimes I found my mate liked it - he would roll a single die as he needs just a 3+ to cast. With the extra +1 he now has a 4+ casting (providing he rollled a 3) and if he rolled a natural 4, 5, or 6 he was laughing as it meant I'd have to throw at least 2 dipsell die at the spell to stop if going off, as the chances of rolling a 4+ when you need it under pressure....not likely!!!

So yeah, tooth gnoblars have some use, but only if theres nothing to really spend the 5 points on!

Jind_Singh
01-12-2009, 08:32
You know what is better than 6 tooth gnoblars though - dropping all 6 of them (2 from each butcher) AND 5 Gnoblars from each unit leaves you with 50pts.
Now you csan buy a unit of 8 trappers - MUCH more usefull than a few one use tooth gnoblars, and 5 extra gnoblar fighters!

Mindshred
01-12-2009, 12:37
Trappers really are one of the better Ogre Kingdoms units, not for their killing power, but just in sheer annoyance value alone. Those 50 points of little gits will often cause your opponent to distract two to three times their point value for most of the game.

And hey, sometimes their sharp stuff actually kills things, which is just icing on the cake.

Jind_Singh
01-12-2009, 15:11
yeah! :D Last time I used them they threw sharp stuff at Skaven Slaves and killed SEVEN of them!
2nd round the slaves charged them and they killed ANOTHER 5 by standing and shooting, for a total of 12 dead slaves!
:D