PDA

View Full Version : Rat Ogre Kingdoms



Arcadia
30-11-2009, 19:06
Hello everyone! this is my first post ever in the fantasy forums so please be gentle ^^

Let me start by saying that ive been a 40k player for just about 10 years but now finally our little gaming group decided on giving Fantasy a chance which im really REALLY excited about! there are however a few problems...

Which army to pick...

So i thought id do what i did when i was all new to 40k... pick the army with the coolest models (in my own little twisted head) which quickly ended up with being Skaven as i simply love the idea of having these steampunk rats go nuts with their insane machinery and prolly the models i love the most! Rat Ogres!

After having bought the books and read some tactics i quickly found out that Skaven was a horde army... and i have a really hard time with horde armies as im a person that really loves to pay alot of attention to each and every model... so i realised that me ever finishing a 2000pt army would never happen :cries:

I gave up on the whole idea until today where i was sorting my old appartment and yes that included alot of chemicals (prolly the reason behind this idea) but then it struck me! would i be able to use the Ogre kingdom rules and create my own little Rat Ogre Kingdom army?!

Ive already given it alot of thought and found solutions for the different army choices:

Tyrant - Really pimped out Rat Ogre that the Skaven scientists accidently gave a little to much brain so he ended up killing his masters and have now declared war against everything! (i didnt say he was clever)

Butchers - Rat Ogres that scavange the battlefield for new limbs/pipes for new abominations

Bulls - Plain Rat Ogres (no steamclaws or wicked devices)

Ironguts - Steampunks with alot of mechanics

Gnoblars - Skaven Slaves (Every skaven related army needs slaves :p)

Ledbelchers - Again Steampunks but with cannon arms instead of the steamclaws

My main question however is... would i ever be allowed to field an Ogre kingdom army using Rat Ogres instead of normal ogres and skaven slaves instead of Gnoblars etc?

Would people just go "no" and not play me at tournaments or will i be frown upon if i ever decide to show up in a GW with the hopes of playing?

Whats your opinion?

By now i want to say sorry for 3 things.

1. The Wall of text.

2. My very poor english and the lack of punctuation. (ive never been good at writing not even on my own language :()

3. If this is in the wrong forum.

Thanks in advance!

Brother Drakist
30-11-2009, 19:09
As long as you tell your opponent that he is basically playing an Ogre Kingdoms army with a Skaven theme prior to the game you should be fine. Sounds like a great idea, have fun with it.

mrtn
30-11-2009, 19:52
Check out the rat ogre "doombull" army that Setrad ran a year or two ago in tournaments. You're not first with the idea, but that doesn't mean that it's not good. ;)

Keller
30-11-2009, 20:02
Sounds like a great idea! There should be absolutely no problem with this, especially if you make it clear ahead of time. Most players are anxious to see great themes and conversions that they shouldn't mind. Just be sure to make each unit distinct enough to seperate them from the others.


For Man-eaters, you could have some Jezzails riding atop a Rat Ogre, representing a brace of handguns. The rat shoots while the Rat Ogre does his thing.

An alternative for Lead Belchers could be rats manning cannons strapped to rat-ogres, rather than have the cannons incorperated into the ogre itself.



By and large, though, as the OK army stands now, you will probably be using mostly Iron Guts with a few regular Bulls, a unit or two of Belchers, topped off with some Gnoblars.

Arcadia
30-11-2009, 20:17
Thanks for the quick replies guys and im so happy about you being supportive about the idea! makes me even more sure this is the right thing to start my Fantasy adventures with.

Mrtn i did a quick google search but couldnt find anything... if you ever run into some pics i would love a link for some inspiration.

Also i would love some more ideas for conversions to make each army choice stand out as unique.

So far ive only really gotten Bulls, Ironguts and Ledbelchers sorted in my head (but ofc go nuts with the ideas im sure you can come up with something even cooler)

But so far i had this in mind:

Bulls - All plain Rat ogres with no armor and no enhancements just a very primitive hand held weapon.

Ironguts - Use the standard Rat ogres but give them shoulderspads (Terminator pads big enough?) and Steamclaws! (Ork Powerclaws) plus alot of tubing and a steamtank etc.

Ledbelchers - Same steam heavy design as the Irongut idea just with arm cannons instead of steamklaws and maybe some scope like eyes.

mrtn
30-11-2009, 20:44
His blog (http://dawgboneyard.blogspot.com/). You'll have to click back a bit in time to see them, but there should be battle reports with pictures.

The Devourer
30-11-2009, 21:00
I like the idea but I think that I should warn you that Ogre Kingdoms are hard for experienced players so it maybe a bad idea to start them. I personaly would love to play them for the cool models but have trouble as they are one of the least competitve armies out there, it's judt hard to keep motivated when you loose almost every game.

If you like skaven but would like a more elite army you could try a stormvermin heavy army as it would'nt be a horde army, would be skaven and would be competitive.

Really it depends how much of a competitive player you are.

Arcadia
30-11-2009, 21:26
Wouldnt say im a competitive player i just like to play the game for the fun of it with my friends but ofcourse if all i do is loose then maybe i will change my mind...

Are they really that broken compared to others? or is it just very hard to play them well?

Ahh yea i should mention that we are a group of 8 players that pretty much always meet up for a playday or 2 so normally in 40k we did doubles or big 4v4 fights... wouldnt that balance my odds alot even with a broken army?

Grom Wronghand
30-11-2009, 21:58
I wouldn't say that they're completely broken, just very difficult to consistently win with. But they are definately fun, and with models that big its brilliant painting and modelling them.

Awesome idea by the way. You could have yhetees represented by thin, fast rats who look a bit scrawny but powerful, maybe do them a different colour. Slavegiants could possibly be ridiculously sized lobotomised rat ogres, that'd look great as a conversion. Hunters could be beastmasters who have pet giant rats which in turn represent sabretusks.

Bregalad
01-12-2009, 01:19
Problem with this concept is that background in no way supports this. Rat Ogres have average animal intelligence, so a Rat Ogre army would have the strategic skill of a cattle herd, with the bull being the general. So basically, like High Elves all have first strike, your units all have stupidity (except the slaves of said cattle).

Jind_Singh
01-12-2009, 02:38
Awesome idea! Love it - and do yourself a favour, read the Ogre Kingdoms book, theres a section that details stories about different tribes, theres actually an Ogre Kingdoms tribe that has close dealings with the Skaven, it totally ties into your theme.
The Tyrant has been known for sending off Ogres who offend him (eg farting in his presence, major sin in the OK), to Clan Moulder who he has close ties with.
The Ogres are in fear of waking up one day as mutated rat freaks - you could invent a special charcater for your tyrant, he could HATE Ogre Kingdoms as he was one of the poor unfortunate sods who was sent to Clan Moulder - and now he's taken control of the clan and is forcing Ogre tactics down the ratmens throats!!!

Doomwheel as scraplauncher, but have it pulled by some monstor to represent the Rhinox
Convert some of those gutter runners to be your trappers
Put like a chain and ball around the skaven legs to represent them only moving 4" instead of 5"

Have fun with it - and do model some awesome looking maneaters!

Your could use the Horned rat model as a beefy Tyrant!

Nesbet
01-12-2009, 02:47
very cool idea indeed

So, keep it coming!

Vermin-thing
01-12-2009, 08:01
Problem with this concept is that background in no way supports this. Rat Ogres have average animal intelligence, so a Rat Ogre army would have the strategic skill of a cattle herd, with the bull being the general. So basically, like High Elves all have first strike, your units all have stupidity (except the slaves of said cattle).

You underestimate the skill of great-great clan moulder. There is such thing as lots of warp stone power, and brain transplants. ;)

------

With the new Skaven rules it's possible to field an army of ratogres, and giant rats.

In the long run I think that you'll have more fun playing out of the Skven book, or hellpit.

It's your call though.

BeatTheBeat
01-12-2009, 08:37
Giant rats don't count for minimum core ;)

Leogun_91
01-12-2009, 08:42
I suggest you to consider having the army of ogre tyrant Shrewd Fulg. He is allied with clan moulder and turn the ogres that displease him into rat ogres. This requires you to have a normal ogre as a tyrant but still allows you to have armies of ratogres (and mixing them with normal ogres still fits fluff so you can have greater variety in models). This also fits better with fluff as Rat ogres are quite dumb and counldn't make an army themselves.

Tymell
01-12-2009, 08:49
Sounds like an ace idea to me! Works just fine, and plenty of room for creative conversions and fun modelling, so it absolutely gets my vote. It's just the kind of imagination the hobby needs to keep it going :)

As to the issue of the leader, you could go with your idea of a rat ogre with enhanced intelligence (interesting experiment for a master moulder) or you could have a moulder riding a rat ogre, or who has gone a little nuts on enhancing himself ;)

See, reading this is the sort of thing that makes me want to do something like this :p

ChaosVC
01-12-2009, 09:00
I like the idea! My the Fat Gods of the Horny one be with you, may their mojo become the power to your dojo...whatever that means...good luck.

Vermin-thing
01-12-2009, 10:01
Giant rats don't count for minimum core ;)

One word: Throt. ;) ;)

skavenSte
01-12-2009, 11:15
great idea. I'd have no problem allowing such an army to run loose in my gaming circle. The rat ogre models to represent the ogre kingdom troops.
you don't need any special rules per-se, just inform opponents that they are facing ogre kingdoms and point out what unit is represented by which rat ogres.
Just be prepared to put your hand in your pocket, coz you'll need plenty of ratogres. close to 100 for 10 of them if you go to gamesworkshop.

Arcadia
01-12-2009, 12:57
Wow! i didnt expect to get this much positive feedback!

Was at my local hobby store today in hopes of getting a copy of Ogre Kingdoms and a pack or 2 of Rat Ogres but sadly they didnt have any of the stuff i was after... so now im planning a small trip to a GW this friday.

I know its gonna be more expensive than fielding a ogre kingdom army with normal ogres but not as much as i feared... sat down and did a 1000 point list from whatever point costs i could find on the internet and the money needed for the conversions i had in mind would only be just about 30 more than if i bought the normal OK models. (20 for actual models and 10 for special bits and pieces) Also a friend gave me a brilliant idea the other day... instead of buying a pack of slaves i could just use the packmaster that comes with the ogres to turn things around and create abit of a laugh when the packmasters are the ones being whipped forward. (or eaten)

As soon as i get my hands on the OK book ill post a list on the army lists forums that i hope all you nice people will give me a hand with and when thats sorted im thinking of putting up a Project log so you can all see how its going. :)

mrtn
01-12-2009, 16:04
If you buy rat ogres you will in all likelyhood also get a ton of giant rats. How about using them as gnoblars?

Arcadia
01-12-2009, 17:23
For my 1000pt army i think i needed 15 ogres and 20 Gnoblars so that would mean 7 Rat ogre boxes which would give me 14 Ogres and 21 Packmasters and the last ogre would be my bruiser (the clever leader :p) so i want him to be in a more dynamic pose... been looing at the Bell Ogre so im thinking of ordering him seperate.

But yes your absolutely right the Giant rats could be used for Gnoblars aswell but in my 1000 point list i would have enough Packmasters to fill out the unit.

By the way thank you for the link mrtn!!! Had time to look through his older posts today and i finally found them! Sadly not as many conversions as i had hoped for but still an inspiration.

innerwolf
01-12-2009, 17:33
I would use beastmasters on top of the shoulders of at least 1 model in each unit. I know "smart" Rat Ogres sounds like a cooler idea, but I don't see it fitting with the existing fluff. Beastmasters as slaves, even less. At least I would use the giant rats as Gnoblars instead.

But it sounds like a cool converting project.

Bregalad
01-12-2009, 18:52
Well, I am not convinced of this concept. But consider using the old metal rat ogres as well. They look way cooler and your whole army is not composed of 3 miniatures then. BTW Impact miniatures just released a new rat ogre for bloodb ... erm ... fantasy football.

stompy
01-12-2009, 19:14
I really like this idea as well, even though I'm not usually a fan of 'stand in' armies. I'd give lots of units standards and musicians and stuff to make them visually different from rat ogre units though (thick people like me get confused easily, and will be expecting them to strike at s5...)

Also, I seem to remember in the Storm of Chaos campaign, there was an 'intelligent' rat ogre character. I seem to remember that one of Archaon's champions (a marauder chieftain IIRC) who kept failing him was given to the skaven to experiment on, and they ended up sticking his brain in a rat ogre body, resulting in a more intelligent rat ogre. I seem to remember he was a hero choice. I do remember that Phil Kelly made a model of him from an old metal rat ogre, with ork power klaws. Perhaps you could use him as your tyrant? (Or at least, steal a bit of his back story for your own character :P)

Come to think about it, I vaguely remember reading a piece of fiction from around the same time, where lots of marauders had their brains put in rat ogre bodies...

Arcadia
01-12-2009, 19:29
Is the Marauder brain guy by any chance called Ghoritch? as i found a website where he was mentioned and it had a pic aswell with a model im pretty sure Phil Kelly did.

And dont worry about all the models looking the same... Ive always loved converting and imo ive always done a great job at making my characters look unique from eachother.

Ohh yea i visited my friend whos younger brother has a hamster and ofcourse the all legendary hamsterwheel of doom! and whatching that little furball go nuts in it made me come up with an hillarious idea! (again this is only in my own little twisted head) but if i could somehow fit a Doomwheel or 2 into an Ogre kingdom list then i thought of making them actual Hamsterwheels for the ogres (having the rather stupid rat ogres tear the interior of a normal Doomwheel out and now use them as huge rams which they cant always control) If i could fit the model(s) in somehow i would make one that looked mean and serious with a menacing Ogre inside slowly rolling the wheel forward and then one that shows what happens when an ogre builds a little to much speed inside of them (have an ogre stretch himself out to stay within the wheel while hes trying to regain control and ofcourse he would have to be upside down to show that its spinning wildly)

Edit: How would they work as Gorgor's if i could trim the wheel down to fit on that size base? heard something about them being able to enter the board from any corner (that could showcase the Ogres rolling up the wheel to the nearest hill and then just rolling at full speed down until they accidently hit something even if it means circling around everything a couple of times :p)

Col. Tartleton
01-12-2009, 20:02
Do a trolls of Chaos list. King Throgg (Ghoritch) with core trolls (Rat Ogres) and rare giants (abominations). Use some warhounds (giant rats) and maurauder cavalry (rat riders). Dragon Ogres for specials could work as centauroid rat ogres with mechanical limbs grafted on that get an energy boost from lightning.

Just an idea.

stompy
01-12-2009, 21:39
Yeah, that sounds like the fella. He had full rules and background in WD, as I remember.

I reckon doomwheels are probably too big to be gorgers- gorgers are only on 40mm bases IIRC. Although a big rat wheel does sound awesome- perhaps it could be used as a scraplauncher (as someone else suggested), or slavegiant, or better still, as rhinox cavalry. Perhaps gorgers could be represented by some sort of tunnelling rat ogre, in a similar manner to dwarf miners? They could have huge steampunk drills :D

If you do go ahead with this army, please do a project log!

zid
01-12-2009, 22:01
There are some great ideas here, but let me elaborate on something that has been mentioned.

At the 2,000 point level, it is possible to do a Rat Ogre army when you use Throt! You can field an army that consists of just 1 pack of Giant Rats and up to 6 units of Rat Ogres (and no Clanrats). That way, you can use Rat Ogres as Rat Ogres, and Doomwheels as Doomwheels, Hell Pit Abomination, Warp Lightning Cannon, etc.

If playing at 1,000 points (and can't use Throt), just use 2 units of 10 Night Runners (as core) and then 3 units of Rat Ogres (as special).

The downside is that people on this forum don't feel that Rat Ogres are the most strategic choice.

The upside is that the Skaven race is what appealed to you in fantasy - and this way you'll actually be playing as Skaven and with access to all of that Skaven-awesomeness. Most people who try Skaven fall in love with all that they offer. Have fun either way.

Arcadia
02-12-2009, 13:41
Im just thinking that maybe the Ogre Kingdom rules would give me more fun and freedom to convert different unit types instead of just having 15 normal Rat Ogres... and i have to admit ive grown really happy about the whole project especially after you guys started mentioning Shrewd Fulg and Ghoritch (Shows that brain transplantation can occur :p)

About the Doomwheel being to big for a Goger... is it really that big? Keep in mind i would pretty much strip everything out of it and the backwheel etc so i would only have the main wheel left. i think i can fit it onto a 40mm base if its only the main wheel and about the height then i cant imagine the wheel being taller than the Goger models stretching their arms.

But i have no clue about it... all i have are the pics from GW's website so if anyone does have a Doomwheel and a Gorger model i would really love a front and side shot of both so i can compare sizes.

Alternatively just put them next to eachother if you have both models and imagine the backwheel of the doomwheel come off and then imagine an ogre inside the wheel (if the head of the rat ogre in the wheel reaches the same height as the gorger then it could work!) then just reply back if you think it would be close enough to work.

Slacker
02-12-2009, 18:08
Why not buy boxes of Ogre Kingdom Ogres and go nuts with green stuff? I mean, it'll be cheaper...mix it up a bit. *shrugs*

I love the idea, though, great concept.

Arcadia
03-12-2009, 14:08
As much as i love converting then i have to admit than i cant create anything out of greenstuff :cries: all i use it for is closing gaps and smoothing surfaces and thats it!

As a side note i finally got my hands on the Ogre Kingdoms book so i now have an army list up in the army list section. (Called Rat Ogre Kingdoms 1000pts)

Might aswell throw in a link. ;) http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233612

Nightsword
03-12-2009, 14:22
Awesome idea, awesome concept. Do it!

Arcadia
04-12-2009, 19:14
Ive now seen a Gorger next to a Doomwheel with my own eyes and its gonna work im pretty sure!

Also my army list is sorted and balanced now (i think) although i didnt get as many different people to reply as i had hoped but i hope it will do well enough.

Sadly my plans about the GW copenhagen visit failed big time so now im hoping the local store have filled up their shelves (usually get new stuff on thursdays)
if thats the case and i can find enough hours to get started then i will prolly start the Project log on sunday... If not then im gonna have to wait till monday and pay a visit to GW there but that means im gonna have to wait till next weekend before i can start on the cutting and bending. :mad:

So unless you have some last minute questions or corrections for my army list then i guess ill see you all in the soon to come Project log. :)