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View Full Version : which books aren't updated to 7th ed.?



Windir83
01-12-2009, 00:29
well, anyone care to answer this one?:D

Seth the Dark
01-12-2009, 00:32
Wood Elves, Tomb Kings, Beasts of Chaos, Ogre Kingdoms, Brettonia and Dwarfs I believe.

Windir83
01-12-2009, 00:39
damn that's quite a few...and the rumours are saying the next edition of the game will be out next summer...gw are slackers:mad:

Zarroc
01-12-2009, 00:41
Didnt dwarves recieve an update not long after orcs and empire? :confused:

decker_cky
01-12-2009, 00:48
Before. They came out right at the tail-end of 6th, so probably won't receive and update until 8th.

Red Metal
01-12-2009, 01:06
Wood Elves, Tomb Kings, Beasts of Chaos, Ogre Kingdoms, Brettonia and Dwarfs I believe.

If it helps...

Brettonians: 2003
Wood Elves: 2005
Dwarves: 2005

The other three I don't have army books for, so I don't know the dates.

Rodman49
01-12-2009, 01:37
I believe all those armies (with the possible exception of Tomb Kings) were designed with 7th edition in mind. Definitely Wood Elves and Bretonnians are armies least in need of updates.

Ivellis
01-12-2009, 02:07
I believe all those armies (with the possible exception of Tomb Kings) were designed with 7th edition in mind. Definitely Wood Elves and Bretonnians are armies least in need of updates.

Ogre Kingdoms was 2 years before 7th, Bretonnia was 3 years, Tomb Kings 4 years.

How could they possibly have been made with 7th in mind? Though I agree that it's likely that Wood Elves and Dwarfs were.

Cypher, the Emperor
01-12-2009, 02:20
I believe all those armies (with the possible exception of Tomb Kings) were designed with 7th edition in mind. Definitely Wood Elves and Bretonnians are armies least in need of updates.

If you like playing an army with absolutely no choices, gimped magic support, no special characters and a host of useless choices, than sure, Brettonia doesn't need an update at all.

warhawk95
01-12-2009, 02:20
bretts with 7th mind, really? questing knights? bretts are still a competitive army and a mid tier army but are in no way were they done with 7th in mind. dwarves and WE are definetly done with 7th in mind, as BoC, whoever follows and probably skaven will be with 8th in mind as well.

Onisuzume
01-12-2009, 14:46
Don't forget the Chaos Dwarfs!
They haven't had a real army book for over 13 years now.

O&G'sRule
01-12-2009, 15:47
they have never updated every army for any edition. The armies still work, theres no rules flaw that says they no longer work

IndianaMadman
01-12-2009, 15:49
Don't forget the Chaos Dwarfs!
They haven't had a real army book for over 13 years now.

Maybe in Eighth edition, then I can pull my chaos dwarfs from their storage crate.

hwd
01-12-2009, 15:56
Brets definately weren't written with 7th in mind, a couple of their magic items became totally pointless in 7th. The one that comes to mind is the "sacrement of the lady" which allows a damsel to double the number of power dice she creates but she can't cast magic that phase. Useful when anyone could use any power dice, not so much now!

Bac5665
01-12-2009, 17:16
The bret book itself is pretty terrible for a host of reasons. Basically it has terrible balance; Brets will beat every other army until VC and DoC came out. Now they still beat every other army, but, the prevelance of VC and DoC, which basically can't lose to Brets, has wrecked them for the metagame.

If you ignore DoC and VC, Brets are perfectly competitive, if boring as heck. GW needs to weakening the Lance slightly, make them pay points for champions and give them a unit of stuborn foot knights and all will be well.

wilsongrahams
01-12-2009, 18:40
Don't forget Beasts of Chaos are out February, and with Tomb Kings due next year sometime too, it looks like they are doing the backlog, though expect new releases to be 7th and 8th edition compatible. As for Chaos Dwarves, you have the Daemongun in the Warriors of Chaos book, stop all the moaning... Lol, only kidding! I want to see Chaos Dwarves back aswell. They were a real fantasy army.

N810
01-12-2009, 18:47
Also Dogs of war has not gotten an update ...
alto many doubt is they ever will ever get one. :(

Avian
01-12-2009, 21:08
Ogre Kingdoms isn't very much like a 7th edition book. For one thing it is full of restrictions where the number of units of type X you have limits how many units of type Y you can field, which is the opposite of one of the clearest trends of 7th edition.

But I guess they had started to think about the next edition when they wrote it.

decker_cky
01-12-2009, 21:13
Don't forget the Chaos Dwarfs!
They haven't had a real army book

*snip*

They've only had a White Dwarf Presents armybook haven't they? I don't think they've had a real book.

Malorian
01-12-2009, 21:15
GW needs to weakening the Lance slightly, make them pay points for champions and give them a unit of stuborn foot knights and all will be well.

I seem to remember that there is already a stubborn infantry unit ;)

willowdark
01-12-2009, 21:18
Stubborn is nearly useless if you aren't immune to fear.

The Lance formation is perfectly fine.

Malorian
01-12-2009, 21:21
Stubborn is nearly useless if you aren't immune to fear.

Now that's a bit of an exageration... although the number of fear causing units seems to be increasing I'd hardly call it nearly useless.


A stubborn infantry unit in an all mounted list on the other hand, now that's nearly useless :p (And probably the biggest reason why you never see bret players taking it.)

willowdark
01-12-2009, 21:24
A bit of an exaggeration, sure. But 6 Chaos Knights are US 12 and cause Fear and will do so many kills to a Grail Relique that there is no way it can stand up to it with anything less than double 1's. A Stubborn unit that is guaranteed to break is pretty close to useless.

Edit: Well, you never see Chaos Knights in groups of 6, but 5 at US 10 is still basically the same story.

Now, Cold One Knights are reasonable at 6 strong, and with hatred, the above holds true as well.

lopezpie
02-12-2009, 00:30
Also Dogs of war has not gotten an update ...
alto many doubt is they ever will ever get one. :(

ahh now that would be nice i have a few dow units sitting around and would like them to be tournament legal :)
maybe one day... seriously doubt it though so not holding my breath

Zarroc
02-12-2009, 01:56
Even though WE were written with 7ed in mind, they do need an update, and put inline with DE and HE, lol cheaper units would be nice, however wood elves were a pretty good list ^^ and i had many a wins with them

warhawk95
02-12-2009, 10:36
WE are probably in line with the high elves right now, and yea they have some weakness but i dont think they are in major need of an update.

And as for the bretts, I think the bretts really just suffer from being fairly 1 dimensional and it isnt exactly hard to counter, plus they suffer from magic becoming popular and alot of their items becoming usless, although KB on large targets is still a good virtue dont know why more people dont take it with monster hammer becoming big.

Onisuzume
02-12-2009, 10:44
*snip*

They've only had a White Dwarf Presents armybook haven't they? I don't think they've had a real book.
Yup, still got that list. :p

ahh now that would be nice i have a few dow units sitting around and would like them to be tournament legal
maybe one day... seriously doubt it though so not holding my breath
They did have official rule pdfs on the GW website a few years back (2007), but I'm afraid they didn't survive the new website (what has besides the online store?).
Still got the PDFs on my PC.

willowdark
02-12-2009, 14:26
Even though WE were written with 7ed in mind, they do need an update, and put inline with DE and HE, lol cheaper units would be nice, however wood elves were a pretty good list ^^ and i had many a wins with them

Dryads are some of the cheapest troops in the game in terms of effectiveness. It's probably the non-WE player's biggest gripe about the list.

For what it's worth, I think the troop costs in the book are spot on. Even the Dryads. Wardancers, TKin, TMen, Wild Riders, as well as the other core troops are right where they should be in terms of balance.

Right now i think WE are on par with both HE and Dark. WE have a lot of clear obvious advantages over those armies while still highlighting the advantages that the others have over them. For 3 list that are essentially supposed to be branches of the same thing, I don't think you could do a better job.

Though, I do think HE are the underdog.

nightsrage
03-12-2009, 01:34
Dryads are some of the cheapest troops in the game in terms of effectiveness. It's probably the non-WE player's biggest gripe about the list.

For what it's worth, I think the troop costs in the book are spot on. Even the Dryads. Wardancers, TKin, TMen, Wild Riders, as well as the other core troops are right where they should be in terms of balance.

Right now i think WE are on par with both HE and Dark. WE have a lot of clear obvious advantages over those armies while still highlighting the advantages that the others have over them. For 3 list that are essentially supposed to be branches of the same thing, I don't think you could do a better job.

Though, I do think HE are the underdog.

you lost me when you said on par with dark elves ... all the GT's, I dont see W/E placing anywhere near as well as Dark Elves. Is this to mean that all Wood Elf Generals are lousy then?

Cain-asmodeus
03-12-2009, 05:52
------you lost me when you said on par with dark elves ... all the GT's, I dont see W/E placing anywhere near as well as Dark Elves. Is this to mean that all Wood Elf Generals are lousy then?



No, i do beleive that it is to the will of the Dice Gods to decide who wins or not. wether it be WE or not.


DoW, i loved to see a compendilum of all the sell swords over the years, and even from the soc campaign and all the recent white dwarves. A unique army of their own, the last update i can recall is Chronicles 2004 army list. i do beleive you can make the army better, giving them more magic items to choose from, and possible talents or bounties to give a flare of things.

CD, I simply would love an armylist of these guys, rumors say FW is doing their army list, and maybe DoW aswell.

WE, I would like to mention the attention of the swarm or sprites? need some attunement, otherwise some point reduction, and maybe a new unit would be ideal

Brets, Simply rewrite or refresh the vowes and chivalries to match 7th to become flawless, maybe another magic bump, more magic possibly? or even a unit of magic users, like monks?

OK, id love to see some changes in how the unit ranks work for them, hopefully reducing the unit ranks from 4 wide to 3. it would make the army more versatile. gut plates are a must for all ogres. I would like to see rhinox calvary and mount choices. i would also like to see a sand worm for a mount choice, the worm representing a creature spawned from the great maw.

TK, hopefully giving them a little more flavor, adding new monsters like the legendary sphinx creature. lifting the requirement of having certain units in the army to be a must, but still remain at least a heirophant. i would also be impressed if theycould get undead war mamoths going to war.

Boc, i just hope the new Gorgon unit carries bows, like in the clash of the titans movie.

BigbyWolf
03-12-2009, 12:41
i would also be impressed if theycould get undead war mamoths going to war.

Undead War Elephants, surely? I think the Kingdom of Nehekhara is a little too far south, and a little too warm for mammoths!

warhawk95
03-12-2009, 14:18
WE can put up a good fight aganist dark elves actually, but they are not on par. They are actually on of the few books that have a shot at killing PoK lord with waywatchers S3 KB, they have enough shots to take down black guard, they are fast enough to play keep away. The ring really has no effect since they are moving forests and woodie magic sucks and most people take caddies or branchies. They do have some problems though they have no reliable way to take down the dragon, hydra too is a bit iffy, and they cannot stop a magic heavy army because they will just have too many PD. So they can compete but if the dark elf player goes magic heavy its gonna be trouble unless they are packing 6dd and wand of re-rolls even then the amount of PD is still a bit frighting.

I think if they lowered the cost of WE magic,because really they dont get all the special tools high elves and darkelves get but they cost the same, and they shouldnt. woodie magic is a support lore and not a masive lore of destruction. and then someway to killing big monsters a bit more reliable (fix spirit sword LM got a good one, why cant we?) then we would be much more in line with 7th since that is the current meta. (fix to magic items in genral would be much nicer two and point drops across the board since our TM reallly the almighty beast he one was compared to hydra and HPA)

Red Metal
03-12-2009, 16:43
WE can put up a good fight aganist dark elves actually, but they are not on par. They are actually on of the few books that have a shot at killing PoK lord with waywatchers S3 KB, they have enough shots to take down black guard, they are fast enough to play keep away. The ring really has no effect since they are moving forests and woodie magic sucks and most people take caddies or branchies. They do have some problems though they have no reliable way to take down the dragon, hydra too is a bit iffy, and they cannot stop a magic heavy army because they will just have too many PD. So they can compete but if the dark elf player goes magic heavy its gonna be trouble unless they are packing 6dd and wand of re-rolls even then the amount of PD is still a bit frighting.

I think if they lowered the cost of WE magic,because really they dont get all the special tools high elves and darkelves get but they cost the same, and they shouldnt. woodie magic is a support lore and not a masive lore of destruction. and then someway to killing big monsters a bit more reliable (fix spirit sword LM got a good one, why cant we?) then we would be much more in line with 7th since that is the current meta. (fix to magic items in genral would be much nicer two and point drops across the board since our TM reallly the almighty beast he one was compared to hydra and HPA)

I'm sure there's a great point in there somewhere - if I could find it thru all the haphazard sentences and lack of punctuation... :)

Leogun_91
03-12-2009, 18:26
How could they possibly have been made with 7th in mind? Though I agree that it's likely that Wood Elves and Dwarfs were.Given that all dwarf plastic packs (not counting miners as they came during the nemesis crown campaign) where made with a rankbonus of 4 in mind I doubt this.Also the Master rune of Kingship was very usefull when stubborn units didnīt make the characters stubborn but is quite useless now when itīs cheaper to put the lord with the hammerers.

willowdark
03-12-2009, 18:26
you lost me when you said on par with dark elves ... all the GT's, I dont see W/E placing anywhere near as well as Dark Elves. Is this to mean that all Wood Elf Generals are lousy then?

Wood Elves can't compete at tournaments because they are generally outclassed by VC and Daemons. Both of those armies excel at taking a charge. DE beat these armies consistanly because they can produce enormous amounts of ACR that trumps the VC/Daemon's main advantage.

But DE are an offensive force. WE can play the bait and flee game better than DE can, so will get the charge more often and exploit the DE vulnerability to Psychology, their low T and poor Armour.

When WE bait/flee, redirect and flank VC or Daemons, they slam into a brick wall and crumble to bits. But against DE, WE are very evenly matched, coming out on top in a lot of ways.

WE are also an old book. not as old as some, but old enough to not actually be popular in the scene in the first place. Not like VC, DE and Daemons which are pretty close to brand new and still have a lot of enthusiastic players.

Malorian
03-12-2009, 18:29
WE is a fine book but the real reason why they don't do better in tounraments is that they aren't a masacre type army.

WE pick away at the army and is great for winning games but more in the realm of minor victorys.

WolfGuardChris
03-12-2009, 18:36
Im wondering since the last book for Orcs and Goblins was released when 7th edition came out would it be safe right now to buy the current army book?

When the new starter set comes out I plan to buy it and since I dont care for Empire I've chosen to go with the orcs. Doesn't hurt I already have a 40k ork army so I'll be familiar with the paint scheme at least.

Back to my question I was thinking of buying the Orc and Goblin book now to familiarize myself with the army before the new edition comes out. However if they'll be getting an update soon after 8th edition comes out then I'll hold off until then.

So what do you think, safe buy or not?

Windir83
03-12-2009, 23:44
dunno if it has been said here yet (I didn't read all the replies, lazy bugger till the day I die :D) but what GW needs is to realize there's this amazingly wonderful thing called the internet where they can continually update old rulesets and the like, and I don't mean just errata and FAQs but actual rules updates to go in line with the latest releases...at least some adjustments to tie people over until the new army books arrive:(

willowdark
03-12-2009, 23:53
I've always been skeptical about that, since it seems like it would produce a mountain of inaccurate books. yunno, the ones that people actually bought. I'm not sure I like the idea that the book I own would actually become useless in favor of a bunch of computer printouts.

WLBjork
04-12-2009, 09:11
Also the Master rune of Kingship was very usefull when stubborn units didnīt make the characters stubborn but is quite useless now when itīs cheaper to put the lord with the hammerers.

A non-stubborn character in a stubborn unit works exactly the same in 7th edition as it did in 6th edition :rolleyes: