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dariakus
01-12-2009, 05:12
Looking for a seasoned Dwarf vet or three to help me out here :) Long-time Skaven player here. I'm currently adjusting my Skaven list for the new book, but also want to finally start a second Fantasy army.

I've got the AoBR set and painted up the unit of Warriors that came with it, and it got me to thinkin' that maybe Dwarfs would be a good army to get into. For a while I was pondering Beastmen, and we'll see how their new book goes in February, but Dwarfs seem to have a very different playstyle from Skaven and could provide some interesting matchups.

I'm looking to start with roughly a 1k list. I've got the contents of the BfSP box, which isn't very much to run with:
Dwarf Thane
Dragon Slayer (why would you ever run this guy alone??)
Dwarf Warriors x12, Full Command
Dwarf Thunderers x10, Full Command
Dwarf Miners x8, Full Command
Cannon

All of that together, with a lot of upgrades, can almost get me to 750 but it doesn't seem like a very functional force :)

So, what do you suggest for the fledgling Dwarf player who's got this as a base? How can you take these models and add to them to forge a thousand point list? It doesn't have to be overly-competitive, but my gaming group *is* a pretty competitive bunch. I want fluffy, fun, playable, and semi-competitive, if that's not asking too much :D

Thanks for any feedback and suggestions you've got!

CrownAxe
01-12-2009, 05:15
Do you have the army book?

dariakus
01-12-2009, 05:17
I do. I stay on top of all new army book/codex releases. If for no other reason than to know my opponents :D

SuperArchMegalon
01-12-2009, 05:43
If you can afford to make an investment, I would suggest the army box. It's basically two battalions with a set of miners thrown in. You can assemble the extra thunderer/quarrelers into warriors, or get creative and use the warrior models to make hammerers. You also get a Cannon and an Organ gun from it. You're gonna want want some Bolt Throwers too. As for characters, the BsB/Thane package is pretty sweet and then you're going to need a Runesmith.

Tah Kazak Rik
01-12-2009, 05:43
Dwarf Thane
The Thane (if you choose to not use MR Swiftness on the Dragon slayer), should be armed with MR Swiftness, Rune Fury, and Rune of Cleaving, with Rune Stone on Armour, Shield, and Pistol. This is called a Thane of Pain.

Dragon Slayer (why would you ever run this guy alone??)
You would run him along the flanks of a warrior unit, and counter charge on your turn or have him hit a enemy flank and slowly cut through the unit, keeping him in contact with one at a time. Master Rune of Swiftness (or Rune of Speed) and two runes of cleaving work great for that.

Dwarf Warriors x12, Full Command
Dwarf Thunderers x10, Full Command
Both Units are Good. But you should upgrade warriors with GW just in case, and shields. Only use GWs if you are desperate or get the charge, but they can make a difference. Besides that always use Hand Weapons and Shield Combo

Dwarf Miners x8, Full Command
Convert these to warriors ASAP. Miners are a terriable waste of points.

Cannon

All of that together, with a lot of upgrades, can almost get me to 750 but it doesn't seem like a very functional force :)
Is this with Rune Upgrades as well? Because the cannon can be runed up to make it more points, so can thane, and dragon slayer.


Thanks for any feedback and suggestions you've got!

Hope it helps you make a good force.

Vermin-thing
01-12-2009, 05:47
Always great to see new people. More dwarf-things to kill-kill. :D

I don't have the 6.5 army book, but I do have the 6th one so for starters I'd suggest a rune smith, a box of warriors, a cannon, and a box of miners???

The battalion is solid for starting.

Where do you want to take the army?

Magic denial, gunline, or castle of steel?

Make sure you paly your first game on a proper table.

Leogun_91
01-12-2009, 08:52
I'm looking to start with roughly a 1k list. I've got the contents of the AoBR box, which isn't very much to run with:
Dwarf ThaneA good standard leader of such a force, experiment on whenever you prefer a hitty or hard thane with either much Armour runes or weapon runes, anything in between goes as well.

Dragon Slayer (why would you ever run this guy alone??)At 50pts this is about the only throw away unit you will get, but consider him just that, don't expect him to do wonders, he is as said 50pts and you get what you pay for.

Dwarf Warriors x12, Full CommandGet a box of warriors and add to these, you want a proper 24 or 25 unit of these, small units doesn't work.

Dwarf Thunderers x10, Full CommandRight, command on dwarf missile troops can work but you must learn how to use it properly and if you are to give them command a slightly larger unit can be worth it.

Dwarf Miners x8, Full CommandGood, these will take care of the enemies missile fire.

CannonAbsolutely, a cannon is usefull and as a dwarf player you can make sure it doesn't blow up. With rune of forging and an engineer you are safe from such mishaps. (well not mishaps, bad design on the humans acount)

I would suggest a box of warriors and a runesmith for a start, it makes the force much more balanced.

snurl
01-12-2009, 09:00
Organ guns are pretty good against skirmishers.

ChaosVC
01-12-2009, 09:01
One word of advice, don't stare at garden gnomes for too long.

danny-d-b
01-12-2009, 09:08
I'd check out bugmansbrewery.com as well as well as here, there is a great blog (or something) of someone setting up a great list from a starting point of the BFSP I'll try getting you a link

edit- can't seam to find the link but there is some good stuff on there

Rogue
01-12-2009, 15:06
If you can afford to make an investment, I would suggest the army box. It's basically two battalions with a set of miners thrown in. You can assemble the extra thunderer/quarrelers into warriors, or get creative and use the warrior models to make hammerers. You also get a Cannon and an Organ gun from it. You're gonna want want some Bolt Throwers too. As for characters, the BsB/Thane package is pretty sweet and then you're going to need a Runesmith.

Finding the Dwarf army or the BSB/Thane combo is rather difficult to find now a days. The only place to find them is on E-Bay since they are a discontinued item.

dariakus
01-12-2009, 15:06
Thanks for all the advice so far, everyone!

danny - is this the article? http://www.bugmansbrewery.com/topic/24885-building-a-dwarf-throng-%3Cspan%20class=

danny-d-b
01-12-2009, 16:56
Thanks for all the advice so far, everyone!

danny - is this the article? http://www.bugmansbrewery.com/topic/24885-building-a-dwarf-throng-%3Cspan%20class=

ner thats not the one I was looking for but it was usefull

Red Metal
01-12-2009, 17:20
I'm looking to start with roughly a 1k list. I've got the contents of the AoBR box, which isn't very much to run with:
Dwarf Thane
Dragon Slayer (why would you ever run this guy alone??)
Dwarf Warriors x12, Full Command
Dwarf Thunderers x10, Full Command
Dwarf Miners x8, Full Command
Cannon

Thanks for any feedback and suggestions you've got!

Wow. You got all that in the "Assault on Black Reach" set? How do the Dwarves do in 40K with just chainmail armor and hand weapons. ;)

Seriously, the BfSP set is a pretty good start, though you may find there are things that you won't use or will use only once and then throw away. These would include:

Slayer: I find he's not worth playing on his own. There's lots of articles on Bugmans to describe why.

Command on Thunderers: Easy VP for your opponent and it takes points out of your army that can be used elsewhere. I'd recommend only using FC on units that are designed for combat and Thunerers can survive combat, but are not best at it. Eventually, you'll want to give them shields from some other Dwarven set. All Dwarf units should have shields if they are allowed to take them - that's what makes them the great, little static combat res tanks that they are.

Command on Miners: Never worth it. The Miners either grab table edges for VPs or hunt warmachines. I'd recommend not throwing away or giving away points, so no FC on Miners - it's just not cost effective.

The immediate next things to look at getting are a box of Warriors and a box of Thunderer/Quallerers. The Warriors are highly useful and you should try to have beafy ranks of Dwarves for combat res - this is their best advantage in combat. Tucking a Thane into a block of Warriors or other infantry seems to be the best tactic. I'd avoid great weapons, as the'ye a waste of points - if you want great weapons, wait till you get Hammerers (or just convert the Warriors to Hammerers). The Dwarves themselves don't kill much, but make up for it with ranks, while the Thane will kill stuff and get you more combat res. Plus, the warrior box should give you some extra pieces to build a plastic Thane or BSB for cheap. A box of Thunderers, plus the ones from the BfSP set that aren't Command, should give you two gunlines of ten each. I'd avoid taking them any higher than ten - I just line them up and shoot, keeping them on a flank.

Good luck. Help the Dwarves settle some grudges.

Keller
01-12-2009, 17:53
I just started a new dwarf army myself not too long ago. The contents of the BfSP set are fantastic, and you can make a 1K army with little problem using them.

I bought the BfSP set of models, then used Ebay to get a second batch of Warriors, a few Thunders, and slayer/thanes. I added in a Gyrocoptor and the army book, and have about ~$70 US tied up in everything, though the Coptor and book were the bulk of that. With everything, my 1K force is a bit inflexible in terms of variety, but very effective.

2x Thane, 2x Slayers (usually pick 2 characters of these), 2x16 warriors, 8 miners, 16 thunderers, gyro, cannon.

By not using the miners, I get 2 blocks of 20 warriors, supported by the thunderers and a warmachine of some type. My initial list was 2 units of warriors, 12 thunderers, 8 miners, and a gyro, led by 2 thanes; I like to change it up.

Using the above, I am 6-0 with my dwarves at 1K.


Well, I didn't come here to boast, just to show the get use of the BfSP set. You can really taylor your army a bit more, converting the models to Long Bears, or even Iron Breakers if you like. I am in the market for a second set to turn a cannon into a Flame Cannon on the cheap, as well as bulk out my warrior units to upwards of 24 models, all for about $20 US.

Then of course you can bulk out the army with any of the existing dwarf range.



As a note on the Dragon Slayers. I find these guys invaluable. for a mere 50 points you get a throw away hero that can tie up entire units for turns on end. I tend to run 1-2 of them with no runes, and they always buy me enough time for my slow warriors to get to where they need to be. The T5 of the slayers will make them last quite a long time, against most S3 enemies anyway, so they are much more reliable than they may first seem. For the price, I always include them now if I don't have my hero slots maxed (which I never do at 1K)

dariakus
01-12-2009, 18:40
Wow. You got all that in the "Assault on Black Reach" set? How do the Dwarves do in 40K with just chainmail armor and hand weapons. ;)


EEP! Edited original post to fix that :) I've been in 40k-land for the last 7 months and am just now coming up for air.

Thanks for the feedback, guys! It looks like I should just bulk out what I've got already and get the rest of them painted up. The first 12 warriors I finished need to be retouched--some details were missed, like eyes!!--and then on to the Thunderers.

Do you think sticking a lot of old round wooden shields on the backs of the Thunderers would pass for Dwarf shields? I've got a ton of the blank Skaven shields lying around that I can use for this.

Lastly, for color schemes, has anyone ever done up a red Dwarf army? I've got my warriors painted up in red, but with blue shields. It may be a bit of a color clash, I'm not sure. Here's a couple of pics if anyone has some ideas:
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu252/dariakus/Warhammer/dwarf1.jpg?t=1259692754
http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu252/dariakus/Warhammer/dwarf2.jpg?t=1259692772

Thanks again!

Red Metal
01-12-2009, 19:39
They look great. The red and blue look fine. The Dwarves I have are armed with red weapons and have dark blue in their uniforms and that seems to be fine, IMO.

As for shields, any type will do fine, as Dwarves are such skilled craftsman. I imagine they could use any shape or size and it would fit the background; so long as there weren't any noticeable insignias already on the shields. My Heroes use some of the old shields from the previous Dwarf Warriors set with the various icon bits.

Grimstonefire
01-12-2009, 23:03
I have to agree with Red Metal.

Depending on whether you plan to expand the army loads you should really convert the miner standard bearer into a regular one. Same with the thunderer.

Get the battalion set and convert the warriors into ones with masks and great weapons with hammer heads (if you can convert/ trade them). This means you can use them as; warriors with great weapons, rangers (if you need them), longbeards with great weapons or hammerers!

The quarrellers could be rangers as well, and you could split them to even out the two missile units. Organ gun is always useful.

Get a runesmith.

danny-d-b
01-12-2009, 23:08
yep speeking of bugmans and converting standards in to non standard models, bugams has some nice tuetorials in that section

other than that write up some lists to get get checked over by tondril the slayer (if he is still there the old fellor) one of the best guys ever for dwarf army list building

outbreak
01-12-2009, 23:33
I'd look at buying multiple skull pass sets off forums. My army was extremely cheap this way. Throw in a battalion box to get some qurrallers and proper warriors you can paint up as longbeards (grey beards, face mask bits and mine are more gold). A lone slayer is decent if your using abit of artillery, i run my guy completly naked as a cheap gunline guard. Anyone who comes close gets charged by my skirmishing guy and he usually holds them up abit being unbreakable until something can get over to help out. On his own i've had him actually do quite well his held up units for 3 turns until the end of a game and his also killed characters/small units on his own.

mweaver
02-12-2009, 01:04
The red-and blue looks good, I think.

Keep an eye on eBay. Sometimes the army boxes go pretty cheap.

For that matter, last time I was there (Friday) my local store had the last dwarf army box on sale for 1/2 price. He doesn't normally do mail order, but might be willing to if you contacted him.

It is a yahoo.com email - mythadventures.

dariakus
02-12-2009, 03:16
Can someone link to the contents of this dwarf army box? I keep hearing a lot about it, but have no idea what's in there :)

mweaver
02-12-2009, 03:32
Looking at the cover on mine:

16 of the new plastic thunderers (p. 69)
16 of the new plastic clansmen with axes (p. 68)
16 of the new plastic clansmen with hammers (p. 68)
10 metal slayers (but no command models)
A grudge-thrower with crew (p. 72)
A cannon with crew (p. 72)
a metal lord (p. 66, second row, middle)
a metal runelord (p. 66, top row, right)
a metal master engineer (p. 73, upper left corner)
The new army book

Interestingly, the cover of the box shows the limited edition army standard bearer from the previous box set; he is NOT in this box.

MarkC
02-12-2009, 04:41
Check out Getting Started with Dwarfs (The first 1000 points) (http://www.gosfordgamers.net/GGG/Articles/Dwarf_Starting.htm).

In fact there are a number of articles about Dwarfs on the Articles page at http://www.gosfordgamers.net.

Regards

Mark C

graymer
03-12-2009, 19:57
Good start to a Dwarf army.

At 1k, I'd go:

Runesmith (General)

1 Unit Warriors - 20+
1 Unit Longbeards - 20+
1-2 Units Quarrelers or Thunderers - no more than 10

1-2 War Machines (Cannon, GT, BTx2)

Possibly a Rare if you can fit it (OG or Gyro)

SuperArchMegalon
23-12-2009, 04:44
Looking at the cover on mine:

16 of the new plastic thunderers (p. 69)
16 of the new plastic clansmen with axes (p. 68)
16 of the new plastic clansmen with hammers (p. 68)
10 metal slayers (but no command models)
A grudge-thrower with crew (p. 72)
A cannon with crew (p. 72)
a metal lord (p. 66, second row, middle)
a metal runelord (p. 66, top row, right)
a metal master engineer (p. 73, upper left corner)
The new army book

Interestingly, the cover of the box shows the limited edition army standard bearer from the previous box set; he is NOT in this box.

This is NOT the army box I was referring to! It seems that he has an older version of it. The most recent was all plastic. There was no army book in it either. It literally consisted of two Battalions plus a box of miners. Retail was $175. I guess if you buy on Ebay you should be careful of what you are getting, since there are several Dwarf boxes floating around!

One of the things about this box is that it has waaay too many missile troops. You can assemble some to be Warriors though, since they have the same bodies. Problem solved!

WLBjork
23-12-2009, 08:38
The Thane (if you choose to not use MR Swiftness on the Dragon slayer), should be armed with MR Swiftness, Rune Fury, and Rune of Cleaving, with Rune Stone on Armour, Shield, and Pistol. This is called a Thane of Pain.

Nothing Like enough Pain there! Master Rune of Gromril, Great Weapon with Master Rune of Kragg and Rune of Fury, can't remember if you can fit Master Rune of Spite in there as well.


You would run him along the flanks of a warrior unit, and counter charge on your turn or have him hit a enemy flank and slowly cut through the unit, keeping him in contact with one at a time. Master Rune of Swiftness (or Rune of Speed) and two runes of cleaving work great for that.

Pah, waste of points. Keep him bare, it's simply not worth tooling him up.


Both Units are Good. But you should upgrade warriors with GW just in case, and shields. Only use GWs if you are desperate or get the charge, but they can make a difference. Besides that always use Hand Weapons and Shield Combo

If you have the points to spare that is.


Convert these to warriors ASAP. Miners are a terriable waste of points.

Depends on your opponent. They are great against opponents that insist on using gunlines etc.


Is this with Rune Upgrades as well? Because the cannon can be runed up to make it more points, so can thane, and dragon slayer.

This is true, although tooling up a Slayer isn't the best of ideas, they are entirely reliant of T to keep them out of trouble.



SuperArchMegalon, there is no way that 2 battalions plus miners should be anywhere near 175. 90 I can understand.

The 175 box set sounds more like the one mweaver is describing (I bought a similar one for the Dwarf 6th edition release.)

SuperArchMegalon
23-12-2009, 08:59
$175 US. Sorry, I should have been more clear.

As for the Thane Tah Kazak Rik described, that build is commonly referred to as the "Thane of Pain" over at Bugman's Brewery. He's good for dealing a couple wounds when his unit gets charged - never saw him with a pistol, but that's a good idea, considering 2 S&S shots.

101st Vostroyan
23-12-2009, 16:06
Thanes are fine but BSB thanes are better imo for 2000 pts. WIth Dwarfs, its fairly easy to get to 2000 because the army box provides for a decent army.

I would recommend a Lord on shieldbearers to lead your army. THey seem to be the hot Dwarf choice nowadays. Runesmiths are a must b/c 4 dispel dice just isnt enough in higher point games.

Miners are fine, and the army box comes with 20 of them, but I converted mine. 10 into Dwarf warriors to go with the BFSP warriors, and left the other 10 as miners. Contrary to what others have said, miners are a fine choice, but 20 is over the top. A unit of 8 to grab a table quarter or kill warmachines is quite valuable for a slow moving army.

Units of 10 thunderers/quarrellers work best, with NO command. Only give command to cc only units. Though you should not give command to slayers.

Two units of warriors and 1 unit of Longebeards at 20 man strength works well. I run Hammerers because I like having stubborn and immune to fear/terror with a lord. Plus they have great weapns, hand weapons, and can carry shields as well. A unit of 10-15 slayers provides a good flank unit.

Organ guns exel at holding flanks, and are a must in every Dwarf army. They can deal with almost any opponent and make a bloody mess out of cavalry. (I run 2:D)

As far as what to get, the army box is fine, but you really have to decide what you really want to field. Dwarfs are notorious for having only 2 phases of the game, since you are rarely moving and never use magic. USe what is most fun for you because a characterful dwarf army of your creation and clan is what is really fun to field.

WLBjork
24-12-2009, 08:23
$175 US. Sorry, I should have been more clear.

Thought I'd checked that as well :shifty:

That's one reason I don't go to Bugmans, it doesn't use some of my favourite/preferred combo's.

FailSafe07
24-12-2009, 14:32
Also, once you get around to building a 2k list its probably worth taking a look at getting a runelord with an anvil. It's kinda pricey (both in terms of points and actual money) but the anvil can be an incredibly useful piece of equipment.

If you like the lord better go with shield bearers, a lord that can quite easily be +1/+4 (either with a GW and rune of stone or a shield, which incidentally makes him 0+ in cc) and immune to killing blow is quite nice.

WLBjork
25-12-2009, 12:01
Dwarfsd cannot get a 0+ save - the rules are (sadly) specific in their book.

FailSafe07
25-12-2009, 13:12
I keep forgetting about that rule for some reason. My Bad.

Rothkeen
25-12-2009, 14:59
Just gonna stick to this thred... As a new dwarf player I find it very informative. :D

mr.kislev
26-12-2009, 09:12
A organ cannon. it is awsome. roll a 10 more awsome. It will kick ass.

FailSafe07
26-12-2009, 15:18
Not to mention the virtually consequence free re-roll.