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Wolfroar
02-12-2009, 20:32
Hi,

Can someone give me with some ideas how I can buy time for my elite units to get in H2H combat without being shot in the early game. I wanted to use eagles and/or skirmishers to distract his handgunners.

I was thinking either use 5 shadow warriors as a screen for my elite unit. But 12 handguns would kill them in one turn, bit of a shame for 95 pts.

Or I could smartly deploy the scouts in their flank (if possible) and charge them in the flank without getting shot at. buying time for my white lions or swordmasters to march on.

Any other ideas?

danny-d-b
02-12-2009, 20:35
The problem with high elves is there are no cheap screans, everything is quite expensive, there for they have to use speed and magic to there advantage

rather than screens try to get some knights or fast cav to get in to combat with the main shooters,

also certan spells can help, lore of life (houler wind and rain lord) comes to mind but there are others

Wolfroar
02-12-2009, 20:39
Yes a possibility, but I need to go full magic if you want to break through the dwarf amount of dispell dice. Frontal attack with cavalry and stand and shoot of handgunners is suicide, I think..

danny-d-b
02-12-2009, 21:16
well considering you need 4s to hit normal, if you charge from long range he will need 5s to hit, followed by 3s to wound a 4+ armour save

so 10 guys would get around 1.1 kills, which isn't enough considering you are now in combat with him and will do 3.5 kills

they will then do 0.25 kills and you should win by 3, 4 if you have a banner

sulla
02-12-2009, 21:46
Hi,

Can someone give me with some ideas how I can buy time for my elite units to get in H2H combat without being shot in the early game. I wanted to use eagles and/or skirmishers to distract his handgunners.


Shoot the handgunners with your superior range archers, shadow warriors and RBT's? That's one of their best roles, after all... Ranged stuff, fast disrupters and large targets are your priority targets for shooting. Also, consider the lore of life and/or high magic for your mages. Some protection in there for your elites too.

Malorian
02-12-2009, 21:48
You want to out smart a gunline? Don't engage!

Stay back, blast them with long range shooting and magic and then capture table quarters.

You should either tie or win.

Tarian
02-12-2009, 22:02
That, or target overload. (Hard for HE, I know...) Basically, stack a side with units (Assuming he doesn't have a lot of grudgethrowers!) and rush forward, under the assumption that *something* will make it there. Once you close with a gunline, it's pretty much into the mopup phase at that point. (DP's and Dragons are great for getting there in a hurry as they're fast and relatively hard to kill. I tend to use my Swordmasters as shooting bait, as everyone seems to want to kill them first.)

outbreak
02-12-2009, 22:44
as above, the way i beat my friend when he runs a gunline is rush alot of his artillery, once you hit a couple you should reliably overrun into the next pieces if his stacked them up in a group, then just avoid whatever troops he has denying him anymore points, a decent gunline will be using alot of points for you to take.

theunwantedbeing
02-12-2009, 22:54
Take your own gunline.(ie lots of bolt throwers and archers)
And Teclis.

He'll hate you.
Thus proving that gunlines arent fun to play against.

mistrmoon
03-12-2009, 00:48
the real question is, does he have an anvil? (thorek or normal) This will drastically change the way you should play against him.

fluffy05
03-12-2009, 01:48
Eagles are cheaper at 50 points and can be effective at charging shooting units to tie them up for a turn or two.

Even use 2 eagles to charge the same unit for a better result.

If you do shoot at the dwarves pick a unit and shoot at it until it is destroyed or has so few models it is not very effective.

If you can break up the dwarf formations this helps with getting into hand to hand.

The Dwarf Gun line is not unbeatable. The hardest thing about playing High Elves is the low toughness and fewer numbers. More practice and trying new ideas will help.

I hope this helps.

KayazyAssassin
03-12-2009, 04:03
the spells howler wind and rain lord would help

Wolfroar
03-12-2009, 08:34
Ok thanks for all the ideas. I will have to try some of them in upcoming battles.

I like the idea of setting up my own gunline with archers and RBT. I have to put them out of their range. Although his warmachines will kill me big time if I don't move to his side of the field fast.

According to the calculation of danny, horseman should work fine too. Or the use of eagles. But eagles are hard to come by, the blisters are all sold out. I had to buy a wood elf lord on eagle.

I plan to use magic if we are playing larger armies, below 1000 pts its just not working out for me.

And no, he does not have an anvil yet, I suppose he wont put it in either.

AussieSocks
07-12-2009, 12:38
well considering you need 4s to hit normal, if you charge from long range he will need 5s to hit, followed by 3s to wound a 4+ armour save

Wrong. +1 to hit (Dwarf Handguns), -1 to hit (Shooting at chargers) = hitting on 4s.

1.65 wounds

(Ten thunderers cost 140pts but shields are usually taken so 150pts)

You should then have about 3 dragon princes left, thus beating the dwarf player by about 2 (he has outnumbering).... That is NEVER enough against dwarves :D

Advice: Lore of Life for the Master of stone/ Howler wind/ Rain Lord etc... or Lore of heavens for Re-rolls on your bolt throwers (so awesome...), infinate range magic missiles or "The Comet".

BIGGEST ADVICE: BEWARE HIS CANNONS WHEN DEPLOYING YOUR BOLT THROWERS :D

Magic is the way to go imho.

danny-d-b
07-12-2009, 12:44
well considering you need 4s to hit normal, if you charge from long range he will need 5s to hit, followed by 3s to wound a 4+ armour save

Wrong. +1 to hit (Dwarf Handguns), -1 to hit (Shooting at chargers) = hitting on 4s.

1.65 wounds

(Ten thunderers cost 140pts but shields are usually taken so 150pts)

You should then have about 3 dragon princes left, thus beating the dwarf player by about 2 (he has outnumbering).... That is NEVER enough against dwarves :D

Advice: Lore of Life for the Master of stone/ Howler wind/ Rain Lord etc... or Lore of heavens for Re-rolls on your bolt throwers (so awesome...), infinate range magic missiles or "The Comet".

BIGGEST ADVICE: BEWARE HIS CANNONS WHEN DEPLOYING YOUR BOLT THROWERS :D

Magic is the way to go imho.
yep- however you missed the bit about charging from LONG RANGE

therefor
BS 3- 4s to hit
+1 to hit - 3s to hit
-1 for standing and shooting - 4s to hit hit
-1 for LONG RANGE- 5s to hit!

stiggie
07-12-2009, 13:08
yep- however you missed the bit about charging from LONG RANGE

therefor
BS 3- 4s to hit
+1 to hit - 3s to hit
-1 for standing and shooting - 4s to hit hit
-1 for LONG RANGE- 5s to hit!

he didnt lol,,

but yee,, id say mage spam him,, take eagles for war machine hunting and then just stand back and blast him with conflag, uranons thunder etc that have unlimited range :),,

snottlebocket
07-12-2009, 16:55
yep- however you missed the bit about charging from LONG RANGE

therefor
BS 3- 4s to hit
+1 to hit - 3s to hit
-1 for standing and shooting - 4s to hit hit
-1 for LONG RANGE- 5s to hit!

If he took a unit champion with a brace of pistols, he'll be stand and shooting from short range. You don't stand and shoot until everyone is in range and for dwarf handgunners the champion isn't that bad of a choice. You know they'll get in combat eventually and handgunners with shields actually stand a chance.

danny-d-b
07-12-2009, 17:12
If he took a unit champion with a brace of pistols, he'll be stand and shooting from short range. You don't stand and shoot until everyone is in range and for dwarf handgunners the champion isn't that bad of a choice. You know they'll get in combat eventually and handgunners with shields actually stand a chance.

yep but then your wasting 15 points and x amount of shots, just so you can stand and shoot at short range

graymer
07-12-2009, 17:44
As a Dwarf player, our weakness against HE comes in the form of magic and flank exposure.

Take the lores that impair our WMs; rush the flanks with heavy units and break down the defenses. Chances are if he's playing a gunline, they have not invested in anti-fear tactics, so any units that cause that are a bonus.

Dark_Knight
08-12-2009, 05:40
Close with the enemy and turn a flank. Two cav units, or whatever poison you prefer, and make the defeated unit flee away from your units (make the unit hitting on the flank of the dwarven unit either fear/terror/higher US) by fleeing into the other Dwarven units and war machines. One victory could ruin your opponents gunline set up. High leadership? So what. Just a few units fleeing would do the job. I inadvertently did this to my friends WE Bowline.

Ceodoc
05-06-2012, 04:31
Hi,

I thought for tidiness it would be best to post my question in this thread, so please forgive me if it looks like I am hijacking, eeeek.
I played my first 2 games of WFB, for the most part thoroughly enjoyed it.

But I was shocked to be told something aboout dwarven cannons firing through their lines to target Monsters!
Allow me to elaborate.

My (TK) 3x sepulchal stalker unit flanked a 5x unit dwarven gunline, from the closest model to my unit:

Anvil of doom, grudgethrower, grudgethrower, cannon and finally CANNON.
These were slightly staggered with the anvil of doom 1/12" in front of me, closest to my left corner, the remaining gunline staggered back approx 12" with the last CANNON more in line with my right side.
The player rotated this furthest cannon and shot at my unit, with as a laser would have it, a line that would hit the stone ammunition of the 2nd grudgethrower, but with a enough amount of my model to have "line of sight".

Ok my lack of comprehension of the rules is thus: The case was made that from the muzzle of the cannon, line of sight can be traced to my unit, as it is quite tall, I would not argue this, but I also argued that a cannonball fired from this gun would hit the stone ammunition in the grugethrower, the player actually agreed this!
Can you clarify or help me to interupt this rule please?

*edit as it stands I believe that any monsters that are tall enough, that I use to flank a dwarven gunline, that contains cannons-can get targeted?
*re-edit* in fact, using that scenario, why can't a cannon fire at monsters over any friendly unit on the board to reach taller models?



Cheers
Doc

Tarian
05-06-2012, 16:37
Welcome to the forums, typically, they'd rather have you start a new thread then resurrect this ancient one.

That said, if you can draw LOS, you have a bead on the target, as you choose a point, ignoring the size of the cannonball, if that helps.

Montegue
05-06-2012, 23:51
Welcome to the forums, typically, they'd rather have you start a new thread then resurrect this ancient one.

That said, if you can draw LOS, you have a bead on the target, as you choose a point, ignoring the size of the cannonball, if that helps.

For cannons one must nominate a model or point on the ground that is in los to the cannon barrell. It is not enough to merely see th model you want to hit because the ball will overshoot by two to ten inches. You cannot name any shot that hes a chance of hitting your open models or a combat they are involved in.

GrandmasterWang
07-06-2012, 06:48
Heh. I play dwarfs so this is intersting. Believe it or not reavers with their vanguard are a menace.

If you can, fly eagles over them and rear charge. No stand and shoot then. Also thunderers and quarrallers cant move and fire so they are safe from them. If he uses his artillery to get them it protects your advancing army.