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hendybadger
03-12-2009, 15:09
I have been looking at the Death Watch conversion pack. And I think they would look really good in my pure Grey Knights force.
But how to include them?
Cant be inducted Marines because i alrady have GKs.
Any ideas?

With the release of the Legion of the Damned Im looking into building a marine army. But Im unsure on which chapter to build.
Seeing I have Grey Knights already, maybe I could do an =][= based chapter to go with them?
So far I have come up with 3.
Death Watch
Excorsists
Red Hunters

How would you go about building these armies?
Is there anything that should be or shoudlnt be used in any force to go along with the fluff?

Thanks in advance

twistinthunder
03-12-2009, 16:54
grey knights are technically a chapter of the adeptus arstartes its in the 'art of warhammer 40,000 ' book.

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 16:56
And I already have an army of those.
I want to do an =][= Marine force of some sort using the new SM codex

pookie
03-12-2009, 16:56
go with Blood Angles what you wanted to do last week, and the week before and the week before that :rolleyes:

BigBadBull
03-12-2009, 17:04
Check out IA 7

Your questions will be answered.

KtL
03-12-2009, 17:15
The Crimson Fist are known to be strong supporters of the =][=. Having been let loose on two other Chapters on orders of the =][=.

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 17:15
go with Blood Angles what you wanted to do last week, and the week before and the week before that :rolleyes:

I am building them aswell. But slowly waiting for the possible new release.
And they cant use LotD


Check out IA 7

Your questions will be answered.

Thats the book that got me wanting to create an =][= marine force


The Crimson Fist are known to be strong supporters of the =][=. Having been let loose on two other Chapters on orders of the =][=.

Ohh I never knew about that. And they are getting alot of support from GW at the moment

Brother Loki
03-12-2009, 17:17
Depending on the conventions of your group you could just use the old WD Deathwatch kill-team rules - they're for 3rd edition I think but there's nothing fundamentally broken about them.

If you're looking for a codex-legal way of doing it then I'd just proxy them as another squad of Grey Knights - possibly a Teleporter squad - the funky bolters can be experimental storm bolters, give them close combat weapons as the NFW and use a heavy bolter as a psycannon with experimental ammo. The shrouding can be some sort of experimental stealth technology etc.

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 17:19
Thats sounds like a good plan. Maybe the NFWs could all be different weapons. Like Lightning claws, Power fists, Thinder hammers ect

pookie
03-12-2009, 17:22
my point was that you seem to have threads weekly asking for people to help you with making decision for you.

Often these threads are the opposite of other threads youve posted previously, like that last BA Thread that you let die after i placed links in it about all the other BA advice threads you had contradicted yourself in.

Dr.Clock
03-12-2009, 17:23
Wait... do you want to use the LotD as they are in the codex, or just the models?

If the latter, I'd go with exorcists... the flames and bones on the models would look smashing as exorcist sternguard methinks... and there's a heavy flamer!

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 17:28
my point was that you seem to have threads weekly asking for people to help you with making decision for you.


This thread has nothing to do with any other past threads. Its asking for info and advice on 3 chapters I dont know much about.
As this is the '40K General' forum I thought it would be the best place for people to discuss and may be useful to others aswell.
Any problems please contact me via PM and dont highjack threads you are not willing to sensibly contribute to.


Wait... do you want to use the LotD as they are in the codex, or just the models?
The Good Doctor.

I want to use the models as a LotD squad like they are in the codex.
And I thought the best way would be to build a 'Codex' Marine force to tie in with my Grey Knights

Brother Loki
03-12-2009, 17:31
I think that would look excellent. Give each one a bolter and a special CCW. Since you don't have other marines in the force there should be no confusion.

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 17:33
But they would look really good as a contrast to the GKs.
Im going to have to colect some bits together now

grissom2006
03-12-2009, 17:34
Well you aren't going to get much input when it comes to the Red Hunter other that what the look like little if anything is known. Your wanting Inquistion marines and to field LOTD in it i'd say no way as the Inquisition actually wants to get hold of them.

Brother Loki
03-12-2009, 17:39
The Deathwatch and Exorcists have both had short Index Astartes articles in WD, and theres some Deathwatch novels out there, but I haven't read them. As far as the Red Hunters go, I don't really know anything about them other than the name and colour scheme.

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 17:45
Well you aren't going to get much input when it comes to the Red Hunter other that what the look like little if anything is known. Your wanting Inquistion marines and to field LOTD in it i'd say no way as the Inquisition actually wants to get hold of them.

Thinking about it, thats a really good point.
Maybe if the Marines were faciing Chaos and the LotD came to help, they would kill Chaos first and then the LotD would disappear before they were turned on

Brother Loki
03-12-2009, 17:46
Also, as Deathwatch are made up from members of different chapters, you could make 1 of them an Exorcist, 1 a Red Hunter, 1 a Blood Angel etc, to tie them in to your other armies.

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 17:49
Like the plan.
Does anyone know where the original rules for the Kill-Team were/are?

SilverDrake
03-12-2009, 18:27
I didn't found the english version but the german version is still up at gw, though marked as unofficial.

Link: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2270032_Deathwatch_(inoffiziell).pdf

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 18:35
Thanks for that. But my German isnt good. Actually I know none

Edit: I have just found the original PDF. And it says the unit is a HQ for a Daemonhunters / Grey Knights army.
Which is great because unless you use Stern in a pure GK force you can only take 1 HQ.
It also says that the Captan can be armed from the Codex:SM armoury. I dont have Codex:SM and dont really want to buy it for 1 unit at the moment.
Do you think it would be Ok if I armed him with SM weapons from the DH armoury?

Whitwort Stormbringer
03-12-2009, 19:45
My best advice is to make up your own chapter with close ties to the Inquisition. While there are a couple of established Inquisitorial marine chapters, they're light on fluff it would seem.

I would skip Deathwatch - even though they're close to the Inquisition they're very focused on hunting aliens, not daemons or heretics like the grey knights.

On the Legion of the Damned, while it seems unlikely that Inquisitorial marines would voluntarily fight side by side with them, the Legion shows up whenever they want to or percieve that they are needed, so it's not really up to their allies if they pop in and do a bit of fighting. No reason why they couldn't be included as "unwanted allies" to the Inquisitorial force.

Archangel_Ruined
03-12-2009, 19:47
I have an inquisitorial marine army, a very big one at that. I made the choice to put no scroll work, bare flesh, robes, purity seals or any identifying marks on any of my marines, as they don't want to be easily marked out by the forces of chaos and their auto senses would show squad markings and designations on the battlefield. That's just my fluff, you could equally go down the uber ornate GK route, both can be supported by fluff, it's just that my inquisitor who bombs around with them is a bit more modern, none of the arcane malarky others go in for.

Felwether
03-12-2009, 19:53
I find the idea of GK allying with DW pretty unlikely.

Think about it: Grey Knights are generally only deployed in extremely specific situations ie. to hunt Daemons and Death Watch are only deployed to hunt/investigate Xenos so a situation where elements of the two organisations are deployed together would be extremely rare.

Not to mention the fact that they're from different branches of the =][= etc etc...

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 19:57
I would be rare. But in the DH / Wh codexes it says that the 2 armies can be allied together in 1 force. So I dont see why the Ordo Xenos would be different.
Maybe a Tyranid Hive ship near a Warp Rift or on a Daemon planet?

Lord Inquisitor
03-12-2009, 19:58
You can explain them being together pretty easily. Two Inquisitors, one Xenos and one Malleus, form a cell to hunt down some form of chaos-tainted Xenos (Chaos-worshipping genestealer cult, chaos orks or eldar, all of which have been described in the background) and both request resources to deal with the threat.

As far as making an army, if you don't require more than 2 units of PAGK and two units of terminators you can do the following with a Space Marine army.
HQ - Kantor
HQ - GKGM with Terminator retinue or Inquisitor Lord
Elites - GK Terminators or Inquisitor and 2x units of Sternguard (Deathwatch)
Troops - 2x Scout units in Storms (augmented Inquisitorial Stormtroopers?) and 2x GKPA

Fill out the rest of the list with whatever units you feel most appropriate (probably Land Raiders!)

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 20:01
I think I may have to work out a different chapter. Ill have a look around and see what I can come up with.
I dont see why DW wouldnt allie with DH. In the Inquis codexes it says they can allie with each other. No reason the Ordo Xenos wouldnt allie aswell.
I like the veiw on the LotD being 'unwanted' allies

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 20:11
That is a great plan. Would really pull together both Ordo Xenos and Malleus, Codex Marines and Grey Knights. Would also include Deathwatch and could have Legion of the Damned if need be.
All things I like and nothing I dont

PikeZ33
03-12-2009, 20:19
Second Lord inquisitors statements. I use my Deathwatch as Sternguard/Vanguard. They're much more useful than the original DW rules, and legal.

The different branches of the inquisition overlap alot, based on what I've read from the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books. GK's rumored to be searching for Eisenhorn, who was in Xenos. Both of those guys seemed more dedicated to fighting demons than Xenos.

Culven
03-12-2009, 20:22
All things I like and nothing I dont
Except that you would need to buy the Space Marine codex. ;)

Culven
03-12-2009, 20:25
I have a Red Hunters Space Marine army for my "Ordo Xenos" force. I include Kantor and Sternguard which I have modeled as Deathwatch to enhance the feel of the army. It is oficcially just a Space Marine army, so completely legal even when Allies are not permitted.

Whitwort Stormbringer
03-12-2009, 20:46
I think I may have to work out a different chapter. Ill have a look around and see what I can come up with.
I dont see why DW wouldnt allie with DH. In the Inquis codexes it says they can allie with each other. No reason the Ordo Xenos wouldnt allie aswell.
I like the veiw on the LotD being 'unwanted' allies

Well, fluff-wise Deathwatch are formed temporarily, for the sole purpose of "anti-xenos" operations (as far as I'm aware, someone may sweep in here with some reference to show otherwise). After their mission, I believe the marines of the Deathwatch return to their original chapters. Of course, maybe there are aliens dabbling in daemon summoning or something, so I guess there's a scenario where they would be working alongside Daemonhunters.

That and, obviously from a gaming perspective it's simply impractical to have an army that only fights one enemy.

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 20:50
Wouldnt be a problem If I was going to build a complete army out of it.
Just wasnt keen on the idea of doing it for only 1 unit

Edit: Could a Mod please merge these 2 threads? They have both ended up on the same subject in the same direction

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 20:53
It wouldnt just fight 1 gamewise. Would just be a normal Marine force but styled like an =][= or Deathwatch one.

Culven - Do you have any pics of your army? Love the idea of Deathwatch Sternguard

Edit: Could a Mod please merge these 2 threads? They have both ended up on the same subject in the same direction

DarkstarSabre
03-12-2009, 21:02
This thread has nothing to do with any other past threads. Its asking for info and advice on 3 chapters I dont know much about.
As this is the '40K General' forum I thought it would be the best place for people to discuss and may be useful to others aswell.
Any problems please contact me via PM and dont highjack threads you are not willing to sensibly contribute to.



I want to use the models as a LotD squad like they are in the codex.
And I thought the best way would be to build a 'Codex' Marine force to tie in with my Grey Knights

Question is hendy...are we going to see another Army X, Y or Z thread in two days time where you've basically ignored every bit of advice you've been given? I mean, you've done it with Tyranids, you've done it with Blood Angels....

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 21:10
I have an ever growing Tyranid army. And lots of advice has been taken on. How can you say none has? Watching what I build through my window?
The Blood Angels are also in creation (slowly) readying for a new Codex.

Please also read the section you quoted! Some points may apply to you aswell.

Whitwort Stormbringer
03-12-2009, 21:15
It wouldnt just fight 1 gamewise. Would just be a normal Marine force but styled like an =][= or Deathwatch one.

Sorry, I'm agreeing with you but it didn't come across that way. What I meant was that of course it's impractical to expect any given army to only fight one type of opponent, from a gaming perspective, so obviously you're going to have to break from the fluff sooner or later anyways.

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 21:18
But only as little as possible. I love themed armies , even if they arnt competitive, and this one could have alot of very cool stuff going on in it

LonelyPath
03-12-2009, 21:19
Hendy, you seem to create a new "help/advise me with/on a army" styled thread every week, are you collecting them all? lol. If so, then I wish I had your budget.

As for LotD, I see the Inquisition wanting to take them out if they ever encountered them directly, their possible supernatural essense would link them as daemonic in the eyes of the Ordo Malleus. Sternguard work great as Death Watch though.

But yes, take Crimson Fists for their ties with the =I= and take Pedro, add a couple of Sternguard units for Deathwatch and you're set :)

LonelyPath
03-12-2009, 21:24
If I were you, I'd go with what Lord Inquisitor said, it pretty much mirrors my own ideas from what's been said in this thread (which is a little different from your other one).

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 21:29
Hendy, you seem to create a new "help/advise me with/on a army" styled thread every week, are you collecting them all? lol. If so, then I wish I had your budget.

As for LotD, I see the Inquisition wanting to take them out if they ever encountered them directly, their possible supernatural essense would link them as daemonic in the eyes of the Ordo Malleus. Sternguard work great as Death Watch though.

But yes, take Crimson Fists for their ties with the =I= and take Pedro, add a couple of Sternguard units for Deathwatch and you're set :)

Im collecting quite afew forces. And always planning others. But some people seem to have a problem with this as seen in this thread a couple of times.

Surely Ordo Malleus would concentrate on the enemy before the allies? And by the time they head for the LotD they would have gone.
Sterguard Deathwatch seem like the way forward.
What links do the Crimson Fists have?

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 21:31
It does seem a very good army concept. But it also fits with the =][= Marine thread quite well. Which is why I asked for them to be merged.
No point in having 2 both talking about exactly the same armylist

LonelyPath
03-12-2009, 21:51
As mentioned elsewhere, the =I= have given the CF the task of looking into or even taking on other chapters suspected of heresy to some degree, I personally forget all the details though.

You can use the old Deathwatch rules though if you happen to have them at hand, they're 4th edition (printed in WD306 here in the UK which I think was after the release of 4th edition) and use them as a GK HQ unit which would also help your GK become a more versatile, if not cheaper (points wise) force.

burning crome
03-12-2009, 22:11
van or stern guard fit death watch rule wise quite well so allied SM using them might be an option

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 22:12
I think for adding to the GK I will use those rules. Ive found them now and think they would work well along side aswell as look great.
For the =][= Marine force, Ill use the model parts but have them as the Sternguard

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 22:14
In the Grey Knights I will use the original rules as an HQ unit.
In the =][= Marine force I will have them as Sternguard

Edit: Are there any weapons that the DW can take that are used or are often seen in a certain army?
For example, pair of lightning claws - Very Space Wolf
This is just so I can style some of the certain members

Lord Inquisitor
03-12-2009, 22:56
Well, deathwatch bolter and close combat weapon of some fashion is traditional. For heavy weapons, the heavy bolter with hellfire ammo and suspensors seems to be the favourite although there are no rules for suspensors and scouts of all things got the hellfire ammo :wtf: but you can give sternguard regular old heavy bolters. It's probably the least useful heavy weapon for them, though and remember that the Ordo Xenos Deathwatch can requisition any kit they need, so don't feel too constrained by that.

In terms of rules, sternguard really do well with combi-weapons. However, it's a shame not to use the fancy deathwatch bolters. My solution is to give each deathwatch a plasma-, melta- or flamer pistol as a sidearm, which should satisfy WYSIWYG requirements as a "counts as".

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 23:40
What I mean is not how should I arm them to play but, What weapons that are available to them are significant to certain chapters?
As in- Melta gun - Salamanders?
Sarg Thunder hammer - Imperial Fists?
ect

madd0ct0r
03-12-2009, 23:50
Could do - especially if you want to tie into another army.

hendybadger
03-12-2009, 23:59
Dont want to tie them in.
But maybe the Twin lightning claw marine would have a Space Wolf pad, Melta marine would have a Salamanders pad, ect

Hadafix
04-12-2009, 00:30
Heavy Weapon = IF or CF
Plasma = DA
TLC = SW or RG
Flamer/Melta = Salies

I cant think of any others that wouldnt be generic.

hendybadger
04-12-2009, 09:42
Thanks for that. Whats RG?

Brother Loki
04-12-2009, 09:49
Raven Guard, I should think.

hendybadger
04-12-2009, 10:23
Ohh yeah. Sorry I was being dim

pookie
04-12-2009, 11:57
Question is hendy...are we going to see another Army X, Y or Z thread in two days time where you've basically ignored every bit of advice you've been given? I mean, you've done it with Tyranids, you've done it with Blood Angels....

see above qoute thats exactly my point.

you do realise this isnt your personal forum?


I have an ever growing Tyranid army. And lots of advice has been taken on. How can you say none has? Watching what I build through my window?
The Blood Angels are also in creation (slowly) readying for a new Codex.

Please also read the section you quoted! Some points may apply to you aswell.

yet the BA thread you allowed to Die, that i posted several contradictory threads in seems to indecate something diffrent!


Hendy, you seem to create a new "help/advise me with/on a army" styled thread every week, are you collecting them all? lol. If so, then I wish I had your budget.



again this is my point.

Hendybadger - why do you need this thread and another asking about DW and GK? seems that your sat board and wanting people to discuss things with!

link to said BA Thread you allowed to die. ( which funnily enough asks something similar to two live threads you got posted this week!!!!

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231580

hendybadger
04-12-2009, 12:16
Can we please leave this out of the thread?
And not drag down a very productive thread thats full of great ideas?

Any problems with things I do or say can be discussed over PM.
I know this is not my personnal forum. Its a public forum where people can discuss anything they like thats hobby related. Am I limited to what I can add to it?
BA post was closed because you made your point and I agreed with it.
The GK / DW threads both went the same way so if you actually read them you will see that I have asked a MOD to combine them for that reason.
At home board? Yes! Im at home really not well and cant get out. So I spend alot of time on these forums. But obviously you think I shold just sit here keeping quiet.

Finally- Are you going to add anything useful to this thread or are you just going to use it to abuse me because you feel like it and obviously dont like me?

p.s I would love a reply via PM

Edit: Can we get back on topic now?

pookie
04-12-2009, 14:45
pm sent (filler)

Thrain
04-12-2009, 15:15
my point was that you seem to have threads weekly asking for people to help you with making decision for you.

Often these threads are the opposite of other threads youve posted previously, like that last BA Thread that you let die after i placed links in it about all the other BA advice threads you had contradicted yourself in.

You're like one of those people on the WoW forums that berates people for their gear score, arena ranking and achievements. Lighten up. :rolleyes:

hendybadger
04-12-2009, 15:18
Thank you Thrain

bigcheese76
04-12-2009, 16:56
If you want something to tie in with your Grey Knights you should go for Death Watch. They are another branch of the Inquisition so would tie in well. If you want to make the army really stand out you can buy a conversion kit for marines with different backpacks and bolters. You could consider using the Iron Hands box set to make them look even cooler and more Inquisitorial.

hendybadger
04-12-2009, 18:29
I have found the Death Watch PDF rules. And it says they can be an HQ choice in a Daemonhunters army. Having pure Grey Knights without BC Stern I have a free HQ slot for them to use

Lord Inquisitor
04-12-2009, 21:05
Sure, that's a good point to start. You're going to have difficulty using them as they are, though, as it refers to an older Space Marine codex. It's very easy to fix (just use the new Space Marine Captain/Librarian rules and points and options). It's kind of sucky that they can only use one ammo type each, so you may wish to say that for +5 points they get all of the Sternguard ammo types and can still take upgrades. You just need to clear all this with your opponents.

hendybadger
04-12-2009, 21:22
At the moment the unit will be used in 2 armies.
In the Daemonhunters it will use the Marine weapons from the DH codex and not have a Lib.
In the Codex Marine force they will be the Sternguard

pookie
05-12-2009, 19:00
p.s I would love a reply via PM

Edit: Can we get back on topic now?

thanks for the response to the Pm :rolleyes:


You're like one of those people on the WoW forums that berates people for their gear score, arena ranking and achievements. Lighten up. :rolleyes:

when you have been around for as long as some of us on here, maybe, you also will get very board with people posting threads that counter threads that counter other threads.

also you may find that im amongst the more chilled out people on here.

madd0ct0r
06-12-2009, 21:19
will people please spell bored correctly?

we're on the discussion board because we're bored.
all of us.


Ok, now trying to disentangle the two roles:

there is a single unit modelled, in both cases they'll represent A Deathwatch squad that's been requested to lend their expertise.

When used Demonhunters it'll use the standard allied Marine rules?
When used in a Pure Marines they'll be Sternguard?


OK. fluffwise, Deathwatch Marines serve for a variable period of time - sometimes a single short mission, sometimes during an extended campaign. This is always a finite time period, and the Marine (if not dead) will return to his chapter, well versed in alternative tactics and dealing with complex situations (eg acting as a bodyguard during negotiations with an Eldar Craftworld.).

It's this extra experience that is the carrot for Chapters to send marines on a tour of duty; Marines often return wiser and more capable as leaders.

Much as the Exorcists have very close ties to the Ordo Malleus, perhaps the pure marines chapter has very close ties to the Ordo Xenos, and sends a proportionally higher number of Marines to the Deathwatch, with the understanding they'll be returned if their expertise is needed.

GK borrowing a Deathwatch squad for a particular mission is also exceptionally believable.
Chaos worshipping Aliens abound in the fluff, but the reason need not be any more complex then needing some extra guys when there's none to hand.
Grey Knights are perennially overstretched as a fighting force and are quite happy to use Sisters (and Visa versa)


The one thing in my head is the sheild on the crusader model for Inquitor Henchmen.
I'd love to see a marine force with them, but I can't see how you'd justify ruleswise.