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Getifa Ubazza
04-12-2009, 20:21
As this is more a 40k history question, than a background question, I thought this was the right place to ask this.

When the first space marines came out, what colours were they? I'm more interested in the first colours, than the actual chapter/legion, but wasn't really sure how to ask. I'm also interested to know the chapter or name of the warband/group.

I know that the RT book had Crimson Fists on the cover, But not sure if they were the first paint scheme. Also, Were there space marine models of any kind before the plastic beakie box?

Also, How were space marines explained originally? Were they always super humans? Were they even in chapters like we understand them today?

Thanks.

Draxonicar
04-12-2009, 20:59
Dark Angels were the first chapter, and before the fall they had black armor. BTW, crimson fists are a successor chapter to the imperial fists, they aren't even a founding chapter

Epicenter
04-12-2009, 21:06
The very first space marines were not Crimson Fists. They just show up on the Rogue Trader cover. The Crimson Fists were presented with a number of other Space Marine chapters, some of whom have gone on to becoming the "First Founders" (including the Ultramarines, Blood ANGELS <blood ANGELS not blood DRINKERS>, Dark Angels, and so on) while others have faded from prominence (such as the Rainbow Warriors).

The very first sculpt of a Space Marine (IIRC) is this one:

http://www.solegends.com/citle/citle1990/numbered/le02SpaceMarine.htm

It was made from metal. It was made before Rogue Trader even came out and the fellow was just a "Space Marine" - I'm not sure if GW already planned to make RT at the time or if it was made just for fun. I do remember the sculpt not being obtainable for quite a while -- until RT had been released though.

The very first photo of them that I know of several of the figures arranged in a formation marching alongside or in front of a tank the design of which would become the Rogue Trader-era Land Raider, though at the time it was kitbashed or scratchbuilt. That photo on solegends isn't the paint scheme I remember on them - they had a coppery-silverish paint scheme (at least that's the color they looked like in the photo, I make no excuses for scale, light, or color-matching on the photo). I don't recall the color being associated with any named chapter in the RT rulebook.

In the rulebook itself, blue marines (of some sort) were the most common color scheme, though. Many of the color schemes were present only on a color plate listing Space Marine chapters in the info section about Space Marines in the RT rulebook.

Getifa Ubazza
04-12-2009, 21:17
What an interesting model. apart from the head, it almost looks like Battle Sister power armour.

Wing Commander
04-12-2009, 21:32
Space Marines were very very different in Rogue Trader days. None of this mystical warrior monk nonsense - they were more like Grunts, very much rough n tumble. In fact, I'm sure there is a short story in RT about some Marines getting into a bar brawl with a bunch of Orks.
A lot of Rogue Trader was very "frontier" in feeling the Marines fitted into this idea very well. I'll dig out my Rogue Trader and have a good look through it and give you a few more ideas.

SirSnipes
04-12-2009, 21:37
yeah the first ones were fists i thought

Wing Commander
04-12-2009, 21:39
Most of the stories and linked scenarios involved a bunch of Crimson Fists. There were still Chapters and the like but I don't think they were as organised as they are now. It felt more like they were "gangs" with cool names that sounded mean..

Getifa Ubazza
04-12-2009, 21:45
Most of the stories and linked scenarios involved a bunch of Crimson Fists. There were still Chapters and the like but I don't think they were as organised as they are now. It felt more like they were "gangs" with cool names that sounded mean..Thats how I felt about them. Gangs of marines, going out, fighting orks in bars and generally having a good time between being shipped out to some corner of the galaxy to put the boot to someone. Sounds like marines to me. :D

stainawarjar
04-12-2009, 21:55
Dark Angels were the first chapter, and before the fall they had black armor. BTW, crimson fists are a successor chapter to the imperial fists, they aren't even a founding chapter

Did you even read the original post? :rolleyes:

LonelyPath
04-12-2009, 22:24
I believe the Crimson Fists were the first chapter, or at least the first to be graced on center stage. After this the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Flesh Tearers, Salamanders and a couplke of others seemed to share a good deal of attention before the Ultramarines took center stage in their stead, At least I remember it that way, but I'll have to take a look at the material I have from the RT era to be certain, I'm pretty sure it's up in the attic among some boxes (some being an severe understaement).

The Clairvoyant
04-12-2009, 22:31
In the pre-release issue of WD, the first models they showed were red marines i think. Really bright red.

Lord Damocles
04-12-2009, 22:33
Rogue Trader Chapters/Legions:

Crimson Fists (cover)
Silver Skulls
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Blooddrinkers
Fleshtearers
Flesheaters
Iron Hands
Rainbow Warriors
Spacewolves
Ultramarines
Whitescars

Urath
04-12-2009, 22:34
Rogue Trader Chapters/Legions:

Crimson Fists (cover)
Silver Skulls
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Blooddrinkers
Fleshtearers
Flesheaters
Iron Hands
Rainbow Warriors
Spacewolves
Ultramarines
Whitescars

Aye, I'm sure there was a thread like this recently where I too listed the Chapters or 'Legionnes Astartes' as they were called.

susu.exp
04-12-2009, 22:48
First marine release with color (the one linked above was a September 85 Limited Edition that wasn´t shown painted - it appears in B&W at http://www.solegends.com/citfly/citfly85/fly8509r-01.htm):
August 1986
http://www.solegends.com/citrt/c100marines-01.htm
Most of the models have the color scheme now associated with the Crimson Fists, though Brother Angst with his Dark Green Armour and Multi_Melta paved the way for Salamanders and Captain Reece for the BA.

Urath
04-12-2009, 23:01
First marine release with color (the one linked above was a September 85 Limited Edition that wasn´t shown painted - it appears in B&W at http://www.solegends.com/citfly/citfly85/fly8509r-01.htm):
August 1986
http://www.solegends.com/citrt/c100marines-01.htm
Most of the models have the color scheme now associated with the Crimson Fists, though Brother Angst with his Dark Green Armour and Multi_Melta paved the way for Salamanders and Captain Reece for the BA.

Aye, but Captain Reece looks more like a 'Blood Drinker' to me. The 'Marine Advancing' at the bottom of the page even have the Ultramarines Chapter insignia, but the darker scheme is certainly that of the Crimson Fists; the top left Marine - Brother Stalker - looks like an 'Executioner', while 'Marine' looks like a member of the 'Dark Angels', 'Raven Guard' or 'Iron Hands'. 'Sheer' has got to be a 'Whitescar'/'White Scar'.

IJW
04-12-2009, 23:07
August 1986
http://www.solegends.com/citrt/c100marines-01.htm
The ad you linked to was in the Book of the Astronomican, released in 1988 after the Rogue Trader book. Did it appear somewhere else as well?

susu.exp
04-12-2009, 23:27
White Dwarf:
http://www.solegends.com/citWDAds/citwd1986/WD808608p62Various.htm
This is B&W as well (I should have located more than the reference to C100), so the first color appearance of Marines might have been RT01, where the box art had colored marines (C100 might have had it as well):
http://www.solegends.com/citrt/rt01spacemarines.htm

IJW
04-12-2009, 23:39
The RT01 ad from WD93 is the earliest colour ad of Marines that I can remember. They also happen to be the same painted models that turn up in the rulebook.

Epicenter - are you talking about the Tony Cottrell Land Raider plus metallic Marines photo that appears on p111 of the RT book? I don't think that appeared any earlier than the preview issue of WD.

Sinner_74
05-12-2009, 00:07
To jump on the Crimson Fist bandwagon, I have to say that they were the most predominantly featured Chapter/Legion back in the RT days. I thought it was kind of a low blow for them to relegated to being a "successor" chapter in the later editions of 40K.

And I have to agree about that "frontier" feel of Rogue Trader, the marines really seemed to be just heavily armed and armored brawlers back then. There was even an illustration of a couple of "human renegades" in full marine armor sitting at a table that looked like it was in a bar... And marines actually wore camoflauged armor back then too....

On a side not, anybody remember the Field Police?

Epicenter
05-12-2009, 00:27
Epicenter - are you talking about the Tony Cottrell Land Raider plus metallic Marines photo that appears on p111 of the RT book? I don't think that appeared any earlier than the preview issue of WD.

The photo itself doesn't. I was just referring specifically to the model - that was the first Space Marine model produced by GW/Citadel. I recall reading it as a bit of trivia in some White Dwarf or something. I'm not discussing what color it was painted, when it first appeared in color, or whatever.

chaos0xomega
05-12-2009, 04:30
IIRC, didn't all marines originally wear camouflaged armor back in the RT era, except for the Red Scorpions (who had a disdain of camouflage and wore bright red instead)? That would imply that these pictures are not old enough...

jmaximum
05-12-2009, 06:09
Even though there is a bunch of posts on this, and most of them are most likely more correct than mine, what the heck, i will throw my 2 cents in:
the first boxed set of space marines had Crimson Fist box art on the cover.
But also: the first 10-man terminator boxed set (all metal multi-part minis) had box art in the Blood Angels colours, although with no visible insignia. For that matter, i think the ORIGINAL space hulk game had Blood Angel colours and chapter insignia (if i wasnt too darn lazy i would check out the box in my basement).

the1stpip
05-12-2009, 07:07
For the record, the Ultramarines were a lot darker blue back then, they only became brighter during 2nd ed.

IJW
05-12-2009, 07:51
IIRC, didn't all marines originally wear camouflaged armor back in the RT era, except for the Red Scorpions (who had a disdain of camouflage and wore bright red instead)? That would imply that these pictures are not old enough...
Nope. The Red Scorpions were added to the game at a later stage. The colour photos that people are linking to and talking about are from the period when the game was released.

Marines in RT did use camouflage when needed but it wasn't an automatic thing.


the first boxed set of space marines had Crimson Fist box art on the cover.
Yes, because it used the same illustration as the rulebook.


But also: the first 10-man terminator boxed set (all metal multi-part minis) had box art in the Blood Angels colours, although with no visible insignia.
8-man, but that's already two years later than we are discussing, the RTB09 Terminator box set came out in 1989.


For that matter, i think the ORIGINAL space hulk game had Blood Angel colours and chapter insignia
Same issue - two years after the release of Rogue Trader.


For the record, the Ultramarines were a lot darker blue back then, they only became brighter during 2nd ed.
Yes, because they were ultramarine in colour. ;)

Codsticker
23-07-2012, 17:32
Closed to insure dead thread stays dead. :skull:

Codsticker

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