PDA

View Full Version : Does anyone else think space marines are great



guillimansknight
05-12-2009, 18:26
with Tau ?


I have been playing a couple of doubles* games and iv found that Tau and SM; just work.

Your thoughts on this ?

*( or 2 vs 1 or triple army games)


Discuss.

Lord Malorne
05-12-2009, 18:48
I think you should have posted this in tacitcs?

I would disagree, though I have a bias against Tau, as they have never beaten me since the day they where released.

Lord Malorneght

the1stpip
05-12-2009, 19:39
Wouldn't know.

Space Marines are pretty good, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, but they are still a primarily shooty army, paired with Tau, who can't assault to save their life.

There are probably better partners for Marines.

Lord Damocles
05-12-2009, 19:50
There are probably better partners for Marines.
Probably true. Although given how mutable the standard Marine list is, I can see them working pretty well alongside pretty much anyone.

Tau gunline and Marine Drop Pod assault anyone?

devlin
05-12-2009, 20:05
marines are great but tau are not

Archangel_Ruined
05-12-2009, 21:38
Marines are filthy death mongers. You can pick a codex and army build to tailor a marine force to do almost anything very, very well in 40k making them ideal partners for almost any army.

susu.exp
05-12-2009, 22:37
Having recently faced that combo in a doubles tournament (well, BA and Tau to be precise. The list was min FW in Fish, Crisis Commander with Retinue, 3 Broadsides, 2 Railheads, 5 Pathfinders, 2 10 strong BA Assault Squads, Lemartes, a MM attack bike and 10 DC with JPs) and it came last. We (CSM and Eldar) brought them down as well.
We played a Tau/Ork team that was harder (they managed a draw by taking so long for their turns that we only managed 3 in time - With a Chaos Termi Squad in position to multicharge the 2 units of Broadsides and 2 units of Flamer-Pleague marines and a Wraithlord in range of 3 big Ork mobs - measuring the move and run for 150 Orks individually does that -we weren´t ammused).
SM suffer in Doubles, simply because they are a very middle of the road force, jack of all trades... Whereas combining a shooty and an assulty force allows both to alleviate their weaknesses.

the1stpip
06-12-2009, 06:55
Now BA, SW and Bt would be a much better fit for Tau.

You are all quite right in saying how mutable the Marine codex is, but it still works best as they were intended, a shooty army with some CC punch.

bigcheese76
06-12-2009, 15:19
Ive played as Guard against my 2 friend using their Tau and Salamanders Space Marines.

So far, after about four games I am still unbeaten by them. So for them the combo hasnt worked no.

madprophet
06-12-2009, 15:34
I think Moreenz are great! TARGETS :)

Clawingwolf
06-12-2009, 18:13
No, there the starter kids army

the1stpip
06-12-2009, 19:14
No, there the starter kids army

So thats obviously how the top two armies at heat 1 of the UKGT this year were both vanilla marines.

They are a strong army if they have focus and a good player.

Archangel_Ruined
06-12-2009, 20:58
It's virtually impossible to make a good army from WS,BS,S,T,I 4 models with a 3+ save, special leadership rules and access to most of the best weapons, vehicles and equipment in the game, duh. EVERYONE knows that...

GrimZAG
07-12-2009, 04:13
It's virtually impossible to make a good army from WS,BS,S,T,I 4 models with a 3+ save, special leadership rules and access to most of the best weapons, vehicles and equipment in the game, duh. EVERYONE knows that...

daemonhunters...

But I think a better combination would be Orks + Tau, not that it's reasonably possible in fluff, but hey, it would work.

Arakanis
07-12-2009, 04:19
I think you should have posted this in tacitcs?

I would disagree, though I have a bias against Tau, as they have never beaten me since the day they where released.

Lord Malorneght

How is that possible? Don't you play Black Templar? Shooting is probably BTs one weakness.

Your local Tau players must suck. :P

pookie
07-12-2009, 11:11
How is that possible? Don't you play Black Templar? Shooting is probably BTs one weakness.

Your local Tau players must suck. :P

ive played only two games against Tau, both against the same Lad.

1st game he shot me to peices....

then i read his Dex, and found at that he had cheated....

2nd game, i lost 5 Initiates, 12 Neohpytes and my Marshall lost a wound.

his 1500 point Tau force ceased to exhist....

a Good BT player doesnt worry about being shot up, we run across the Board and slapp ten shades of Ork Dung out of em :evilgrin:

oh and my EC slaughtered 6 Crisis Suits and 3 Broadsides!!!

Tommygun
07-12-2009, 11:19
Is a Tau/Nid pairing workable?
Not fluff wise, just game wise?

RichBlake
07-12-2009, 12:02
Space Marines are pretty good, don't let anyone tell you otherwise, but they are still a primarily shooty army, paired with Tau, who can't assault to save their life.

What? Marines aren't a shooty army at all :S

Unless you build a deliberatley shooty list what Space Marines excel at is assault as there are very few other armies where their heavy weapons troopers can mash all but dedicated CC units in an assault.

At best you can describe marines as primarily as short range fire fight army. Generally you get up close and personal with your enemy, spend a turn hosing them with bolter fire, then run forward shooting with your bolt pistols and assault.

At worst you can point out that all the "best" Space Marine characters and squads are based around CC. Why? CC is the place where you can do the most damage BUT it's also the place where you can take the most. Simply by having a 3+ save you have a massive advantage over everyone else in that regard.




a Good BT player doesnt worry about being shot up, we run across the Board and slapp ten shades of Ork Dung out of em :evilgrin:

oh and my EC slaughtered 6 Crisis Suits and 3 Broadsides!!!

Sounds like either that Tau player is rubbish or you got lucky.

Firstly those broadsides should have flattened the EC with Railgun shots if he was on his own, likewise with the Crisis suits.

If he was in a big unit of Initiates and Acolytes then that unit should have been his targeting priority. Because BTs get to run forward when they pass a leadership test for casualties, and they take one even if they take 1 casualty then the best option is always to concentrate fire on a single squad at a time until it is obliterated.

Most of the Tau armies I know pack enough fire power to at least wipe out one mob of men before they get there and the mech armies should be mobile enough to avoid the foot sloggers.

Again it depends on your list, BT are good especially if you combine them with Vindicators and dreads to provide the longer range. However Tau are a really good army if played right, I know my local Tau player frequently beats every army out there and I hate going against him just because Broadsides and Stealth Suits upset my guardsmen.

pookie
07-12-2009, 12:13
@ RichBlake, the fact he needed to cheat in his first game should show what kind of player he was.

i suppose i did make the mistake of saying id never faught Tau before, and they hadnt even exhisted when i first started Gaming!

meno1
07-12-2009, 12:52
What? Marines aren't a shooty army at all :S

There are many shooty Marine Chapters out there, Dark Angels are one. After all, they did develop the Fire Support Dreadnought (more commonly known as the Hellfire).

Really it all depends. To me, it seems a CC Marine list with Tau wouldn't work, seeing as once the Marines are in CC all the Tau's magnificent firepower is wasted...

I think a close quarters fire type Marine army would do well, able to sit back and let the Tau shoot until the enemy tried to come in and assault, when they could step forward, lay down a smashing with short range firepower and hold their own in assault.

Saying this, I have no experience in the matter and could easily be wrong.

Arakanis
07-12-2009, 13:49
There are many shooty Marine Chapters out there, Dark Angels are one. After all, they did develop the Fire Support Dreadnought (more commonly known as the Hellfire).

I believe you mean 'Mortis.' The designation 'Hellfire' is entirely the invention of Relic and appears only in 'Dawn of War'



2nd game, i lost 5 Initiates, 12 Neohpytes and my Marshall lost a wound.

his 1500 point Tau force ceased to exhist....

a Good BT player doesnt worry about being shot up, we run across the Board and slapp ten shades of Ork Dung out of em :evilgrin:

oh and my EC slaughtered 6 Crisis Suits and 3 Broadsides!!!

He must be absolute rubbish if that's all he can do against you. The thing that makes Tau so dangerous is they have a gun for everything. If you've got a Land Raider, they've got Railguns, if you've got Marines, they've got Plasma rifles and Rail rifles, if you've got infiltrators they've got flamers, and Smart Missile Systems, if you've got horde they've got Burst Cannons and Submunitions.

I don't know what he was doing wrong, but you should have taken much, much more damage against a 1500 point Tau list. Bringing LRs at that point is like just asking to have a 250-point handicap. I'm not saying you'll lose every time, but every game I've ever played as Marines against Tau is an uphill battle.

When I'm Eldar it gets much easier, because I can actually outmaneuver the little blue cows. Also, my Wave Serpents laugh at your Railgun.

El Ravager
07-12-2009, 14:06
No, there the starter kids army

:rolleyes:

Your condescending attitude towards Space Marines might hold a little more weight if you had bothered to spell "they're" correctly.

There, their, and they're - Learn the differences. Helps you get taken seriously when you're going to be patronizing to others.

pookie
07-12-2009, 15:22
I believe you mean 'Mortis.' The designation 'Hellfire' is entirely the invention of Relic and appears only in 'Dawn of War'



He must be absolute rubbish if that's all he can do against you. The thing that makes Tau so dangerous is they have a gun for everything. If you've got a Land Raider, they've got Railguns, if you've got Marines, they've got Plasma rifles and Rail rifles, if you've got infiltrators they've got flamers, and Smart Missile Systems, if you've got horde they've got Burst Cannons and Submunitions.

I don't know what he was doing wrong, but you should have taken much, much more damage against a 1500 point Tau list. Bringing LRs at that point is like just asking to have a 250-point handicap. I'm not saying you'll lose every time, but every game I've ever played as Marines against Tau is an uphill battle.

When I'm Eldar it gets much easier, because I can actually outmaneuver the little blue cows. Also, my Wave Serpents laugh at your Railgun.

not trying to de-rail this thread, but in all fairness, he did struggle as i got to set up terrain, and choose side of the board.

My BT force is 100% foot sloggers ( well still is as ive not built my LR or other Rhino, and aint painted either my Rhino or DP), so he should have done more to me.

But when you have several bits of terrain to move behind, and then your opponent manages to leave his troops within assault range on his turn, then that helps :evilgrin:

Morale to the story is dont cheat, he added two to every wep he had in his first game, so he mopped the floor with me, an example would be his Pulse Rifles, he claimed fired 4 or was it 5 shots each, when they dont. ( i dont remember the eaxct details of Tau weps, as ive not faced them since, but if you look at the dex and add 2 to every wep, you get my point!).

Arakanis
07-12-2009, 15:40
My BT force is 100% foot sloggers ( well still is as ive not built my LR or other Rhino, and aint painted either my Rhino or DP), so he should have done more to me. Wow. I'm impressed, I've never seen a BT army without at least ONE LRC, in fact, most of the ones I've seen have had 2+
Do you deploy dreadnoughts at all? Or any other fire support?



But when you have several bits of terrain to move behind, and then your opponent manages to leave his troops within assault range on his turn, then that helps :evilgrin: Ah, yes, the fool and his Firewarriors are soon parted. I know how that goes. I played against a Gunline Tau army that misjudged my Land Raider Crusader's distance once. It crashed into their line and disgorged 5 Lightning Claw wielding Deathwing and a Terminator Chaplain. Muahaha. This was in 4th of course, where you could just go from squad to squad.



Morale to the story is dont cheat, he added two to every wep he had in his first game, so he mopped the floor with me, an example would be his Pulse Rifles, he claimed fired 4 or was it 5 shots each, when they dont. ( i dont remember the eaxct details of Tau weps, as ive not faced them since, but if you look at the dex and add 2 to every wep, you get my point!).
Kudos to you for being trusting enough to let him pull that on you. I never would have been nice enough. "5 shots per basic weapon?! Let me see that book!"

Not to deride Tau players, but the ones I've known seem to, ah... "forget" their rules, more often than others, it seems. "I have Landing Gear so I can't be immobilized! Plasma Rifles are strength 7!" One time a kid actually told me that his Battlesuits were Fearless because they were bigger than my marines. I think I was laughing for a full 2 minutes. :D

pookie
07-12-2009, 16:33
Wow. I'm impressed, I've never seen a BT army without at least ONE LRC, in fact, most of the ones I've seen have had 2+
Do you deploy dreadnoughts at all? Or any other fire support?

Not at that time no, I ran 100% infantry force. I’ve much more options these days, including 3 Dreads and aforementioned Vehicles ( although I still need to get the LRC upgrade sprue, before the LR is actually Built)

And if this makes it even more impressive 9 out of 10 Initiates have Tabards, and Knight Style Heads, the 10th has the Melta Gun, so uses a Normal Plain torso!


Ah, yes, the fool and his Firewarriors are soon parted. I know how that goes. I played against a Gunline Tau army that misjudged my Land Raider Crusader's distance once. It crashed into their line and disgorged 5 Lightning Claw wielding Deathwing and a Terminator Chaplain. Muahaha. This was in 4th of course, where you could just go from squad to squad.

He managed to leave pretty much enough Tau within 6” that almost every member of my 1500 points force made it into combat! ( the ones that didn’t couldn’t as they were dead!


Kudos to you for being trusting enough to let him pull that on you. I never would have been nice enough. "5 shots per basic weapon?! Let me see that book!"

Not to deride Tau players, but the ones I've known seem to, ah... "forget" their rules, more often than others, it seems. "I have Landing Gear so I can't be immobilized! Plasma Rifles are strength 7!" One time a kid actually told me that his Battlesuits were Fearless because they were bigger than my marines. I think I was laughing for a full 2 minutes. :D

To be honest, I can be too trusting, id like to think we are all honest people, sadly that’s not true, then again he did trust id set up a reasonable table for our re match, which it wasn’t, it was deff slanted in my favour!