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View Full Version : Starting orks - any advice? doing a 2000pt.



Sons of Blight
10-12-2009, 17:12
Have been playing vamps and empire and wanted to change it up a bit so traded away my vamps for orks - any suggestions they seem like a very fun army to run!

Malorian
10-12-2009, 18:50
If you traded for orks you should post this in the 40k thread.

If you traded for orcs then you should first report to Avian's Orc and goblin tactica page.


My personal opinion is to play them as a horde and stick to their strengths.

Sons of Blight
10-12-2009, 20:04
thanks for the clarification - orcs -

Ultimate Life Form
10-12-2009, 20:12
Ah. Well, in that case...

What is your definition of 'fun'? If having half your army squabbling over animosity each turn or having erratic fanatics smash your own troops or your shamans roasting themselves or your war machines blowing up in your face is your idea of fun, you made the right choice. If you're looking for something competitive, I'd suggest trying those options that work around these drawbacks a little (Black Orcs, for example). I'm no Greenskin player so I can't help that much...

zelfen
11-12-2009, 21:03
Well, as a sort of greenskin player, I can tell you that Orcs are really flexable. Firstly, do you want an elite, hard-hitting toughness 4, strength 4 on the first round of combat army? Or do you want the ultra-massive horde? Or a mix?
If 1...
As Orcs are still cheap, you can have a good horde. Blacks Orcs really tough, and will scare your opponent. Be warned- averagley 1/6 units (not including Black orcs, who are too 'ard fer squabblin') will not do anything.
I'll post the others (2 and 3) some other time.

warhawk95
11-12-2009, 21:14
If you traded for orks you should post this in the 40k thread.

If you traded for orcs then you should first report to Avian's Orc and goblin tactica page.


My personal opinion is to play them as a horde and stick to their strengths.

Ill second this, again. Its a very good thread and you definetly need to read it. Im not even an orc player but i read it and it was very informative. Also I second that they play best as a horde, trying out elite someone with orcs and goblins is like trying to be as tough as an elf.

Leogun_91
11-12-2009, 22:02
What did you get in the trade? That will surely help us to help you.

zelfen
14-12-2009, 20:41
Didn't he say orcs where he said 'thanks for the clarification - orcs - '? Or did I misinterpret that?
Anyway, assuming he does mean fantasy orcs...
The horde iowevers difficult to use, but can be rewarding. The horde will be huge - a unit of 20 night goblins with spears, command, 3 fanatics and nets costs 210pts. However, you can spend just 100 pts on a unit with spears and command. Most of the points are the fanatics and nets (but they make your horde tougher). The problem with this is that 1/6 of your units will not do anything for a turn, and the average leadership is 5 (6 if you take standard goblins, but 6 is still not great). Your units might get in each others way, and panic each other. However, you WILL outnumber your opponent (unless he/she does skaven) by a considerable amount.
I'll do 3 later.

Sons of Blight
16-12-2009, 13:18
i picked up some stuff for my ork army over the weekend - so this is what i have to work with -
2 black orc big bosses
2 night goblin shamans
1 giant
2 scrap launchers
20 black orks
60 orc boys
80 night goblins - w/6 fanatics
2 orc chariots
black ork on boar boss
20 spider riders
2 trolls
and just placed an order to get the expensive ork on the wyvern
- i dont like using special characters so he'll be a black ork on a wyvern -

thats what i have - - i do have 2 goblin bosses and the goblin boss on a giant spider because he looks pretty nifty -

my record now against the skaven 1-6 - i get to play again tomorrow - still havinga bunch of fun - I did manage to beat vc in 2000 though:)

Arnizipal
16-12-2009, 13:21
Scrap launchers?
Don't you mean stone throwers? Or possibly doom divers?

Leogun_91
16-12-2009, 18:40
That list seems solid enough but you might want to get a few more blackorcs in the unit just to keep your ranks after the enemies shooting, that also goes for any other unit you play under 25+strong (unless it's cavalry, chariots or warmachines ofcourse).
A wyvern is a logical next step so that's good as well.
I wish you luck with the horde and can happily tell you that you are in a posistion to get basicly what you find to be cool now.

zelfen
16-12-2009, 19:18
Well, it seems you have chosen to do a mixed army.
Do you mean a scrap launcher? The Ogre one?
In my opinion (sorry if I sound like someone who is bossing you around, telling you what to do. Do I?) you have a good core of night goblins, orcs, a few black orcs, chariots, and even a few hard-hitters (the giant and trolls). Now is the part where you make your army suited to you.
The only other things that some people would recommend are war machines (rock lobbers, which are stone throwers or spear chukkas, which are bolt throwers. Or a doom diver, a slightly more accurate stone thrower), some hard cavalry (orcs or savage orcs boar boyz) and some skirmishers (squig hoppers). Of course, you don't have to take any of these.
A point on the skirmishers
Squig Hoppers are Immune to Psychology: this means they cannot flee as a charge reaction, a common tactic for skirmishers. They also move a random distance (3D6). This can cause a problem.

After that, then it really is down to you. Stubborn Snotling swarms (though not actually counted as a swarm, and also stubborn...at LD 4), M9 fast cavalry (wolf riders, although not fast cavalry if you take shields), herds of squigs (which are immune to Pshychology, and when you lose all the herders, but keep some squigs, they inflict D6 S5 hits on ALL units within 2D6, and then die), weaker but faster chariots and the pump wagon (incredibly random, always moves 2D6 and is counted as a chariot that inflicts 2D6 impact hits) are all some of the fun but weird units.
Really the choice is down to you. You have a very good core, and so really the only thing left to do is add whatever you think looks fun!

Fobster
16-12-2009, 19:18
Don't buy anymore BO's. They are an elite unit, your paying far too much for extra ranks and they die almost as easily as regular orcs. They are pretty hitty but if your going 25+ I doubt you'll see your points back on an infantry unit with m4. I've tried them as a death star and while elite in an orc book they aren't elite compared to what's out there.

Probably build your army around 2 blocks of 25 shield and command orc boyz mobs. Mount your general on a boar and stick him one unit, standard bearer on boar in the other. Night gobbos for support. They make nice charge bait as they dont cause panic if you deploy wisely.

You could also try and put your shamans in your chariots with dispel scrolls so you can fill your special slots with BO's, stone thrower, bolt throwers and a unit of squigies of some sort.

I wouldn't buy too much until you check out the rumours threads. Orcs are meant to be getting some new plastics next year. Not sure what exactly though, but if your not in a hurry id just use what you have.

Ancre
16-12-2009, 19:30
Get the orc army book if you don't have it yet ! :)

\/\/raithlord
16-12-2009, 19:34
That's a really good starting army. To be fair, all you need is a few units here and there and it's pretty much perfect.
I will recommend Avians Orc and Goblin thread for sure. I've played Orcs for about 6-7 long years, but I'm not so full of myself that I could lie and say I learned nothing from it;
http://www.avianon.net/subpage.php?s=index_greenskin_tactics
In short, a brilliant tactical and interesting read.

As a run down;
Expensive units of Orcs and Goblins aren't really a strong point, even for Black Orcs. Having a huge unit of mediocre troopers doesn't make them any stronger, but simply means that when they get run down you lose a large point sink. As Fobster said, don't go above 20 BO's, I agree 100%.
I'd start by using your orcs in units of either 2 units of 25 or 3 units of 20.
Two units of 25 fleshed out with Night Goblin units would be a solid choice.

Fast Cavalry, especially Spider Riders are brilliantly usefull. I'm envious you have 20, as I have 10 from BFSK box set, and am using it as a unit of 6 to great effect, along with a similar unit of Wolf Boyz. Orcs arent master of combat, rather they excel in assaults. The difference being that our Core units struggle to kill enemy units, but through Outnumbering, Ranks, Banner and Flank bonuses (thanks to Cavalry) we can sweep opponents away and run down the WHOLE unit at once.
Those chariots are solid special choices for gaining precious points to combat resolution.

I only really consider using the Wyvern Boss in battles where I can have two Lords. Orcs desperately need their Generals 12" leadership nearby.
Also a rule of thumb from Avians thread, those 20 Black Orcs can handle themselves, and the Orc Boyz units benefit from the +1 to the Waaagh! roll, the leadership bonus AND the ignore squabble if the Black Orcs Bosses are with them; so put the Black Orc bosses with them.

Goblins; all good. Night Goblins are the best of the two foot units, and the Little Waagh is just as usefull as the Big Waagh.
Two units of 30 (With Shaman) and one unit with 20 is good. Try putting 1-2 fanatics in the smaller unit as a surprise, but don't give them Nets. Leave them to the larger units.

Giant - Decent, causes Terror and is very killy if lucky. However, is a large missle magnet.

2 Trolls - I'm not sure I like trolls much. If you do buy upgrades I wouldn't consider River Trolls, as they dont have the combat statline to back it up;
Magic Res 2 and an armour save for weak missle fire seems more worth it to me.
But to be fair, Trolls aren't that powerfull. Heck, taking one on his own to help manouver him into flank charges or maybe hunt small skirmishers/warmachines would be better than taking two.

FORtheGREATERgood
16-12-2009, 20:24
Although the trolls stupidity may get the better of them (hopefully you have higher LD nearby) they can be extremely effective. With movement 6 they are faster than your non-cavalry troops and can destroy flanks after being tied up with a cheap unit (not that trolls are expensive either). IMO if you have the slot open and extra points feel free to run a troll alone or in small groups up to 3.
As for troll upgrades, the cheaper the better. If you plan on facing a magic heavy army the stone troll upgrade may be useful but I don't bother. If you are running a horde or all-purpose army it is better to keep them plain since it will be easier to make back their points, and if they don't, so what.
I agree with Wraithlord, only use the wyvern if you are playing a high point game,going for fluff, or just using it for casual games.
Personally, fanatics are one of my favorite tricks esp against cavalry (I play against a DE opponent regularly). Just have fun with your list, piick units you like. All together they become pretty effective if played right and with the dice gods shining upon you.

Which armies will you be playing against the majority of the time? Or are you just going for an all-comers list? (Sorry if I missed this in one of the posts)

Sons of Blight
17-12-2009, 13:06
I have 2- spear chucka's

I like all comers lists - main armies i face - high elves *Skaven(the most)* Vampire counts and empire

Im looking into getting squig hoppers - they look very fun - Ill have to get a night goblin boss on a giant squig if i use them simply because it fits :)

thanks for the responses - I have a few games tonight vs- skaven and vc and possibly empire - then next tuesday im vs a goblin army with the special character night goblin leading them. - hopefully I'll have my wyvern in by then they said it should be in by friday - wish me luck!... Do orcs in fantasy still find blue to still be lucky? hope so i bought a bunch of blue dice just in case!

Joseph

Condottiere
17-12-2009, 13:21
I think you need a sense of humour to play O&G, because even if you do have a plan, you can chuck it out the window once the game starts.

Dag
17-12-2009, 19:18
ive played ong forever and with a pretty sexy record (much to the dismay of my buddies) and i just say this, goblins are terrible unless their on something, this can be wolves, spiders, or mushrooms, jsut dont let them run around on their own thoughts, bad things happen. squig hoppers are arguably the best unit in the game. if i had the cash id run 3x15 of them. their random movement makes your opponent always try to guess and pay attention to them, also dont forget the DONT need LOS to charge, so those pesky shades in the woods are yours for the taking . u can leap over trees and into combat, its nasty, and with 2ws4str5 attacks a piece their some of the best dmg outputs in your army. savage boar boys are awesome because they WILL see combat, and put out a high number of str5 hits if their biguns (4 a model) wich is not too shabby. your warboss should pulp most big things with a simple weapon load out. dont kit out heroes as you cant compete with other lists point/effectiveness wise. my warboss is there to lend his ld and smash troops, fighting other heroes he rely's on his t6 and kb, which works pretty well most of the time. dont go off against charging bret kings or chaos lords, but u can fight a lot of those tuffies out there. 25shield boys+command is nice, they dont last in combats tho, being ws3 hurts, t4 is nice but newer book troops will just beat you up. t4 means you dont lose combat by more than 1 or 2, with ur lord / banner there you should be fine to line up your cav charge.

i love this army purely for wakyness, i hope you like them too. good hunting!

stay away from the magic phase! although WAAAAAGH is probably the best spell in the game, people can shut u down easily, and i miscast a lot.... so.... byby shamans

FORtheGREATERgood
17-12-2009, 19:52
Facing Skaven the most will make you a better general considering it will be an uphill battle most of the time since they can out-hoarde even O&G. Here are a few things to consider in upcoming games (even against the other armies you play although I don't have much VC experience so someone else will have to chime in there).
Squig Hoppers are great...as long as the opponent doesn't shoot at them. They can pack a serious punch when they do run into the enemy.
Keep BO and other expensive units away from skaven plague censor bearers since they can be brutal esp when you aren't the one charging.
Goblins up front, orcs behind is generally effective.
Although I am not completely sure what type of skaven army, magic can be devastating so try to get your cheaper units in the way of it.
Stay away from fast units unless ( such as spider riders) you are using chariots or the like to flank since the skaven are fast themselves and you will need the points for spear chukkas and rock lobbers if facing doomwheels/bell/furnace(Read some of the skaven vs O&G battle reports, they should help you out and give you a general feel)
Depending on the empire army, your best bet is to get to them as fast as possible or you may get torn apart from the distance. If you are facing knights and a lot of mounted characters, fanatics are your best friend.
High Elves always strike first anyway so you might as well try to get the charge off. Don't expect your magic to be of much use and focus on getting a lot of bodies.

Remember to have fun and hopefully your blue dice won't let you down and if you get the chance, please post up your results from your games.

Sons of Blight
17-12-2009, 20:04
im going in with this tonight - thinking i do need to bring shamans or else the skaven magic and the vc magic will destroy me- as it has been :)

1 great shaman mounted on a boar with nibba's itty ring
1 black orc boss with enchanted shield and zorga's collar - (for the hellpit)
1 night goblin shaman level 2 dispell scroll
1 night goblin shaman level 2 dispell scroll
20 black orcs w/shields and mork's spirit totem
30 night goblins full command
20 night goblins - 3 fanatics
2 orc chariots extra orc crew
2 scrap launcha's - will buy more eventually unless i go with squigg hoppers
giant - simply because i luv um
30 boys full command
2 units of 5 spider riders
and a troll

1999 is what it ends up being.

once my wyvern comes in ill change out my orc shaman with a warboss and my chariots and troll for the wyvern. -

wish me luck!

semersonp
18-12-2009, 13:19
o+g...

not so much an army as a ramshackle bloc of coldly brutal orcs subjecting every smaller greenskin they can lay their choppas on to varying degrees of enslavement within the green tide...

each piece of the army brings with it something uniquely useful - night goblins with their squigs, snotlings with their pump wagons and orcs with their brutal thews and whatever means of beast they can enlist to serve them... giant and wyvern alike...

that being said the most effective orc + goblin armies incorporate a little bit of everything...

at 2000 points you should be able to field:

warboss
gob shaman
orc shaman
big boss (bstd)
25 orcs
25 orcs
36 night goblins (fanatics)
5 wolf riders
5 spider riders
chariot
6 boar boys
2 spear chuckers
8 squig hoppers
giant
2 pump wagons

roughly, that is...

so what you see above is essentially one of every unit the o+g armybook has to offer...

the three specific keys to mastering the greenskins are: diversity, placement and waaagh!...

insofar as selection and creation goes take it unit by unit... so start small, say with some easy to paint spider riders... proxy the rest of your force and see how it feels... see what works for you, what makes sense to you - then go from there... don't get bogged down in one game or another... that is, don't lose to an all cav army and throw down ten units of night goblins with fanatics or be overrun by undead and beef out your troop blocks at the expense of your flanks...

and even if you do end up getting models you move away from the o+g range is pretty nice looking... it won't hurt to have a few more models kicking around your display case to give the impression of 'horde'...


game well
:)

Sons of Blight
18-12-2009, 16:26
my results are - I massacred vampires and dwarves and tied the skaven (abomination is a tough one) Think i may try and get a large as in 5 troll unit

thoughts?

FORtheGREATERgood
18-12-2009, 19:34
Wow, nice results...skaven with their new codex are always going to be a tough one. You can try a group of 5 trolls, but they can be hard to fit all of them in close combat with their larger base sizes (which is why I normally only go up to 3). It is worth a shot, but at that size it may be harder to make your points back, although it may help draw fire away from the rest of your army.

The only option is to play a few games and get back to us with the results as I don't even have 5 trolls to try it.

snottlebocket
19-12-2009, 20:37
I think you need a sense of humour to play O&G, because even if you do have a plan, you can chuck it out the window once the game starts.

You can plan with greenskins just fine, you just need to learn about redundancy.

Want to shoot someone with a boltthrower? Bring four boltthrowers. Want to smack someone with a giant? Bring two giants. Want to hit something with a fanatic? Bring several blocks of nightgoblins and 6-9 fanatics.

Want a smashing close combat army and pull off some truly evil charges? Hahahaha now pull the other one.