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hendybadger
12-12-2009, 01:08
I am putting together a few armies for 40K.
They are for the local club and possible new store.
Equal numbers of Good(ish) and Evil(ish)
I want each Army to have an enemy opposed to them. That will also give a good base/model theme.
So far I have
Tyranids - Iyanden Eldar
Tzeentch Daemons - Grey Knights

Other armies in the build will be Blood Angels and Necrons.
Possibly also Codex Marines, Thousand Sons, Orks and Tau.

Do these above 6 have any certain enemies that they would choose to fight above any others?
Is there any fluff that often faces one against the other?

RichBlake
12-12-2009, 01:26
- Codex Marines vs Chaos Space Marines

Why? Because Loyalist marines make a point of engaging and battling their traitor brethren whenever possible.


- Orks vs Blood Angels

They fought on Armageddon where Dante has a space station named after him because the BA's made such a big difference.

- Tau vs Tyranids

Why? The Tau have only just recently been invaded by the Tyranid Hive Fleet and are struggling to hold them off.

- Necrons vs Imperial Guard

Necrons generally don't get their attacks reported because there are no survivors left. Usually when the crons fight Marines the Marines either win or make a fighting withdrawal.

They are the most obvious ones imo. Could also have Tau/Imperial Guard due to the spheres of expansion and the imperial crusade there, if you didn't want to double up on nids.

hendybadger
12-12-2009, 01:31
Is there a certain loyalist chapter that has dealings with the Thousand Sons?
Why Necrons vs IG if you mention them fighting Marines?

Any others that are big in the fluff?

Raibaru
12-12-2009, 01:37
Space Wolves vs. Thousand Sons.

Lord Cook
12-12-2009, 01:39
Well for Necrons their only symbolic enemy is Eldar, which you already have. So that one doesn't work very well. Necrons really have no particular history in fighting Imperial Guard, so if you want it to be fluff-based I wouldn't go down that route.

For Thousand Sons, their classic enemy are of course the Space Wolves. The Wolves destroyed the Son's homeworld Prospero, and the feral and manic Wolves make a nice contrast with the cold, calculating Sons. However as the Thousand Sons are very Tzeentch-based, I would recommend making your Daemon army that matches with Grey Knights into another Chaos God, such as Khorne or Slaanesh.

For Orks, the best possibility is easily Imperial Guard. They are ancient enemies, and have a massive history in the background of being in an endless struggle with each other. Campaigns like Armageddon being the obvious example.

Grimbad
12-12-2009, 01:53
Anti-chaos chapters I can think of: Exorcists, Relictors
Chapters that are good matches for Thousand Sons for other reasons: Blood Ravens, Brotherhood of a Thousand.
Tau and Orks are total opposites, so could be matched well, though Orks vs. Guard is the classic pairing.

Grimhack
12-12-2009, 02:03
Necrons actually do have a history of fighting guard, it's mentioned in the fluff in the necron codex that some of the 'broken' tombs made the system screw up, sending out the warriors to kill, getting butchered by the guard platoons-in-training, repairing and on a predetermined set of time start all over again. These guard platoons actually use it as a sort of exam, survive the necron attack and go die somewhere else in the galaxy!

Imperius
12-12-2009, 02:06
Orks and I.G. are the easiest, you could open basically any book with the words Warhammer, Imperial Guard, and Orks in it. There will be stories of bloodshed.

Imperial Guard codex has some,
The rulebook,
The Ork Codex,
Some Inquisition things...

...I dont read warhammer books, but I'm SURE they also have some.

Irondog
12-12-2009, 02:07
Crimson Fists vs. Orks. This feud goes all the way back to the beginning of 40k. In my opinion, there are few images more iconic to 40k than a small group of Crimson Fists in a heroic last stand against a massive tide of Greenskins.

Rewision
12-12-2009, 02:08
Dark Eldar V Guard (Slave raids etc.)

Yautja
12-12-2009, 02:30
Necrons vs Sisters of Battle. The massacre at Sanctuary 101.

Corpse
12-12-2009, 02:40
Tyranids and Necrons - Vengeance (If you know your fluff)
Orks/or/Eldar and Necrons - The most ancient battles, before chaos was a threat.


Ancient battles are the best ones.

Grimhack
12-12-2009, 03:06
Yes but the orks don't know about them anymore because they live now, not in the past like the eldar.

Brother Loki
12-12-2009, 11:34
To pair off against Necrons how about an Adeptus Mechanicus force? There's a couple of ways to do this, either using one of the AdMech fandexes, such as the one from Tempus Fugitives, or by making heavy use of counts-as and Imperial Guard (Ogryns as praetorians, carapace vets for skitarii, lots of plasma weapons etc.)

For Tau you're looking probably at either orks (if doing a farsight enclave army) or some sort of Imperial force - maybe look at Imperial Armour 3 and go for an Elysian army?

hendybadger
12-12-2009, 11:40
Some great pairing ideas in here.
Space Wolves could be great against the Thousand Sons. Are there any codex chapters that have a history with them apart from Crimson Fists?
What is the history with the Fists?
I want to do Tzeen Daemons against the GKs because that is my favourite god.
I dont really want to use the IG because Im really not a fan of the army

Brother Loki
12-12-2009, 11:56
I believe the marine codex briefly mentions the Sable Swords chapter specialising in fighting Tau, but that's about it.

I'm not aware of the crimson fists having anything particular to do with thousand sons - orks is their big thing. a CF vs. ork scenario was in the very first 40k rulebook, and they were on the cover. Orks invaded their homeworld, Rynn's World, and the CF fortress monastery was destroyed when an orbital defence missile misfired, taking most of the chapter with it. Chapter master kantor and a few squads of veterans were all that was left, but held out and are now rebuilding the chapter, so a typical 'modern' CF army would contain lots of scouts and vets.

misterboff
12-12-2009, 12:42
As an Ork player, the main rivalries off the top of my head are:

Orks v Crimson Fists (Rynn's World - already mentioned)
Orks v Dark Angels (Storm of Vengeance campaign)
Orks v Steel Legion (Armageddon 2 & 3)
Orks v Tau (War of Dakka)

I'm pretty sure that the Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors aren't too fond of each other, and there's also Tyranids and Squats (resets the clock)...

misterboff

AndrewGPaul
12-12-2009, 15:14
Tyranids and Necrons - Vengeance (If you know your fluff).

Apparently I don't. Explain?

You've already got

(Iyanden) Eldar vs Tyranids

Grey Knights vs (Tzeentch) Daemons.

That leaves:
Space Marines, Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Space Wolves, Witch Hunters, Necrons, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templars, Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar, and Tau.

(Crimson Fist) Space Marines vs Orks is a good one, IMO.

Add (Thousand Sons) Chaos Space Marines vs Space Wolves,
Witch Hunters vs Necrons (doesn't really give you the full effect of the Witch Hunters, but there's an interesting reason for it in the setting)
Black Templars vs Tau (a bit of a stretch, but the Templars are on crusade, so they might encounter advanced Tau forces quite often)
Dark Angels vs Imperial Guard (that way, both sides can still be loyal, but the Dark Angels are looking for a Fallen, and the Guard are unfortunately in their way)
That leaves Blood Angels vs Dark Eldar.

I think that's covered all the Codexes, and with a minimum of Imperial vs Imperial matchups.

hendybadger
12-12-2009, 15:16
I think the 2 main forces that I will need opponents for are the Blood Angels and the Necrons. Have they ever faced each other?
Im struggling abit with the Loyalist Marines and Chaos Marines. Would they not add afew too many MEQ armies?
Trying to keep it as varied as possible. Orks ans Tau are at the bottom of the to do list at the moment. Other club members may be building them.

So far that makes
Tyranids - Eldar
Daemons - Grey Knights
Blood Angels -
Necrons -

3 evil, 3 good. Atleast 2 MEQ armies

TimLeeson
12-12-2009, 15:18
Necrons and Enslavers.

Iron Lords and Barghesi.

Subjugators and Cell-Kin.

hendybadger
12-12-2009, 15:20
From your Avatar ot looks like you may be a big Enslavers fan?

TimLeeson
12-12-2009, 15:21
damn, I got found out! guilty as charged my obvious bias is obvious :P

hendybadger
12-12-2009, 15:23
I would rather keep with Official Codex armies because they will be used by all and faced by all

TimLeeson
12-12-2009, 15:28
ah, thats a shame but a totally understandable POV. Guess it would be harder to explain to new players that X aliens are just "counts as" and dont have any official models...

in that case, I'd agree with the Sisters of battle VS necrons then.

hendybadger
12-12-2009, 15:35
I dont know much about the Sisters. Are they similar to the Grey Knights or normal Marines?

Sorros
12-12-2009, 15:37
Necrons need to fight Saim-Hann. it's clear to me that there needs to a be a sweet army of bikedar just flanking and flying circles around an army of silent robots.

Nid's can fight anyone really, they just invade everything. Guard could go against them for the generic "humans vs insectoid aliens Starship troopers"

SoB should fight Chaos Marines, or maybe a counts-as Chaos guard list. They are purging a regiment! While Grey Knights should fight the Daemons, Marines can go kill Orks as usual.

edit* Actually, Tau vs Tyranids would be cool.

hendybadger
12-12-2009, 17:08
The Nids already have an opposed force.
BA vs Chaos maybe. Revenge for Sanguinius?

MarshallSam
12-12-2009, 17:14
Why not have Eldar v Necrons (ancient enemies) and BA v Nids (Space Hulk)

hendybadger
12-12-2009, 17:21
Is there any other backgroud with the BA snd Tyranids apart from the Space Hulk mission?
Whats between Eldar and Necrons?

Bunnahabhain
12-12-2009, 18:05
Orks vs Guard. They are by far the biggest and widespread of the armies (then traitor/rebel humans, then everyone else)

They run into one another time and time again, as they are so widespread. The background is stuffed with this ongoing battle, from Armageddon, to Valhalla and thousands of words inbetween.

Also having 2-3 lots of marines about, and no guardsmen is just wrong.

Sorros
12-12-2009, 18:26
Whats between Eldar and Necrons?

:eek:


They are the most ancient of enemies! The Eldar are obsessed w/ preventing the Necrons from escaping their tombworlds and zealously hunt them down.

hendybadger
12-12-2009, 18:45
I have been doing abit of research in an old SM Codex and the Blood Angels PDF.
It seems sensible that the biggest enemy of the BA would be the CSM Black Legion.
The disciples of Hourus against the sons of Sanguinius.
The Orks are definatly being done by others now.
And Im really not keen on doing IG. Thats just for personnal reasons.
The Eldar are going to stay as the Tyranids enemies for 3 reasons.
1. I love Wraiths
2. Iyanden was nearly wiped out by Tyranids
3. The Nid rumours have a special creature that has wiped out a craftworld

So. Now we have

Tyranids - Iyanden Eldar
Tzeentch Daemons - Grey Knights
CSM Black Legion - Blood Angels
Necrons - ? Are there any other options left?

Edit- Still no thoughts on the 'Crons?

Nerak
12-12-2009, 20:49
Inquisition: Radicals-Puritans.

Anyway I think you'r asking the wrong question. You can vertually pit anyone against anyone. There are however a few armies that just generally don't fight ("generally" being the key word).
Nids-Necrons. Check it, the bugs stay out of the necrons way.
tau-chaos Because, other then raiders and a "possibly" corrupted farsight, their lairs are on diffrent edges of the galaxy. Neither part have any real intrest in the other.
Dark eldars-chaos. Why would they bother?

Otherwise pretty much every combination is possibly. Since your making armies for a specific event my tip is that you look up what armies you wish to make and then find out who their epic enemy/biggest beef is. Pretty much every force in 40k has got a nemesis and other than that almost everyone has long standing grudges against everyone.

hendybadger
12-12-2009, 20:55
Do the Necrons have a Nemesis?

Histeria
12-12-2009, 21:58
Do the Necrons have a Nemesis?

Yeah, it's called life.


Inquisition: Radicals-Puritans.
Dark eldars-chaos. Why would they bother?


Dark Eldars want slaves and they like slaughter and murder and stuff.
Chaos wants X depending on chapter/legion. I see no reason why they wouldn't fight.

hendybadger
12-12-2009, 22:03
Are the dark Eldar something to with with Slaanesh?
What sort of life is the worst to them?

Lothlanathorian
12-12-2009, 22:12
They hate Slaanesh just as much as the regular Eldar. They just have a different way of not giving their souls to Her/Him/It

TheDarkDuke
12-12-2009, 22:42
IG vs Ork
SM vs CSM

Seem like two of the more obvious choices to do.

hendybadger
12-12-2009, 22:46
Dont really want to do IG. And someone else is doing the Orks.
I have Blood Angels vs Chaos Marines

Bunnahabhain
13-12-2009, 01:04
Dont really want to do IG.

The Emperor doesn't care. Consider yourself conscripted. You have one week to say goodbye to this planet, and everyone you know here. After that, you're bound for Xankdros XII, and more orks than you can shake a stick at!

RichBlake
13-12-2009, 07:18
The Emperor doesn't care. Consider yourself conscripted. You have one week to say goodbye to this planet, and everyone you know here. After that, you're bound for Xankdros XII, and more orks than you can shake a stick at!

Join the Imperial Guard!

Why?

Because you have to!


Necrons actually do have a history of fighting guard, it's mentioned in the fluff in the necron codex that some of the 'broken' tombs made the system screw up, sending out the warriors to kill, getting butchered by the guard platoons-in-training, repairing and on a predetermined set of time start all over again. These guard platoons actually use it as a sort of exam, survive the necron attack and go die somewhere else in the galaxy!

This is the bit of fluff I was thinking of, plus Ciaphas Cain runs into them often enough, plus it's the Guard/PDF that they fight in the invasion in the Rulebook. I think the general idea i was running with is that the Necrons only really properly get stopped/discovered when they fight Marines because the Marines don't all die, since there have been so few sightings I'd assume they spend most their time fighting PDF/Guardsmen.

hendybadger
13-12-2009, 11:08
Can i not pull a sickie from IG enrolment?

ehlijen
13-12-2009, 11:43
Can i not pull a sickie from IG enrolment?

Sure you can! Just report to Inquisitor House for cleansing to get that nurgle taint out of you. You'll be allowed to take time off to attend your subsequent burial in an unmarked mass grave.

hendybadger
13-12-2009, 11:49
Im not going!

Shifte
13-12-2009, 13:19
Space Marines v Chaos Space Marines
Eldar v Necrons
Daemon Hunters v Chaos Daemons
Tau v Orks
Imperial Guard v Tyranids
Dark Eldar v Dark Eldar
Witch Hunters v Psyker Heavy Armies.

I made a point of not repeating any options, and that's the best I could come up with thusly. Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar don't have a generic foe, I find.

RichBlake
13-12-2009, 18:22
Space Marines v Chaos Space Marines
Eldar v Necrons
Daemon Hunters v Chaos Daemons
Tau v Orks
Imperial Guard v Tyranids
Dark Eldar v Dark Eldar
Witch Hunters v Psyker Heavy Armies.

I made a point of not repeating any options, and that's the best I could come up with thusly. Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar don't have a generic foe, I find.

It depends what you're going for, I'd personally say Witch Hunters are good against Eldar, but Eldar are a good match with Necrons. The other option is, of course, Traitor Guard. It depends whether you want to use each codex once or each army once as Traitor Guard would use the same codex ut the army should be modelled different.

To be honest Dark Eldar vs Eldar is always a good match up, good vs evil and all that. You could always pair SoB and Dark Eldar up, they could be raiding a convent.

OR

You could pair up Eldar and Dark Eldar and then Necrons and SoB. The first contact with Necrons was when they wiped out Sanctuary 101, a SoB convent.

hendybadger
13-12-2009, 19:32
Space Marines v Chaos Space Marines
Eldar v Necrons
Daemon Hunters v Chaos Daemons
Tau v Orks
Imperial Guard v Tyranids
Dark Eldar v Dark Eldar
Witch Hunters v Psyker Heavy Armies.


Nice match ups. But theres acouple of thngw we wont be using.
Orks are being built by another member. Imerial Guard are not being used at all.
Are matches so far are-
Tyranids - Eldar. Iyanden destruction
Blood Angels - Black Legion. Horus v Sanguinius
Grey Knights - Tzeentch Daemons
Necrons - ?(dont want to double up on any armies used)

Grimbad
13-12-2009, 20:40
Guard could be done cheaply and pretty quickly. Get some of the two-part cadian snap fits, count them as veterans to fill the troops out. Bulk out the force to showcase the Guard's awesome tanks. There should be at least one heavy armored force in a set of showcase armies.

...Necrons versus Sisters of Battle? Their first battle report was against sisters. It's the Inquisition's job to investigate sudden distress signals like necrons would produce.

hendybadger
13-12-2009, 20:44
The reason I dont want to use Guard is a personnal one. Im just not keen on playing a sci-fi game and using something that is near enough the modern day human army.
Im unsure on the Sisters. There is an Inq army already. Arnt they near enough the same as Grey Knights or normal Marines?

RichBlake
14-12-2009, 01:11
The reason I dont want to use Guard is a personnal one. Im just not keen on playing a sci-fi game and using something that is near enough the modern day human army.
Im unsure on the Sisters. There is an Inq army already. Arnt they near enough the same as Grey Knights or normal Marines?

Ok there are some points I must disagree with you on here:

1) The Imperial Guard are nothing like a Modern army. Firstly their commanders are generally the incompetent baboons that the British Army had leading them in WW1, or they are utterly ruthless like the Russians in WW2.

The tactics are no-where near the same, there are no surgical raids and lightening strikes with tactical manoeuvring for the average Guardsman, it's generally advance or die.

The equipment too! A laser gun for every soldier, a tank that fires shells so big it should be physically impossible, horse cavalry with exploding lances, abhuman snipers and shock troops, bi-pedal walker vehicle scouts and psychic ally powered soldiers?

The Guard are similar to modern day humans not the modern day military. All the inspirations that remind you of the real world are generally taken from the past, not the present.

2) Sisters of Battle are NOTHING like Grey Knights or marines, had you played with either or even read both their codexes you'd know that. Grey Knights cost double what Sisters do and are much better in terms of stat line and equipment, same goes with Marines but obviously cheaper.

Sisters though get the upper hand two fold: 1) The Book of St Lucius practically means all their units are Ld 9 stubborn. 2) The Faith Point system allows them to give many many many more tactical options then a bog standard tactical squad.

If you honestly think Sisters are like normal marines you should actually play a game against them.

Grimbad
14-12-2009, 02:09
The reason I dont want to use Guard is a personnal one. Im just not keen on playing a sci-fi game and using something that is near enough the modern day human army.
Im unsure on the Sisters. There is an Inq army already. Arnt they near enough the same as Grey Knights or normal Marines?

I do agree with this. Realism, when defined by modern/wwII standards, is a bit out of place in 40k. My guard are Mordians, leaning towards the archaic themes of 40k. The most 'sci-fi' guard out there are probably Elysians, with the most futuristic theming, with anti-gravity gunships and everything. Were I GW, Catachans and Cadians would be last on the list to make plastics of, but here we are.
If you're set in not wanting Guard, though, it's your choice. I would say again, though, that there should be at least one vehicle-heavy force in any set of showcase armies.

808thMyrmidons
14-12-2009, 04:25
I'd suggest Orks vs. Imperial Guard. the reasons should be self evident.

Edonil
14-12-2009, 04:38
Sisters don't play anything like Grey Knights or regular Marines. They have a drastically different set of tactics. However, they might not be the best choice for other reasons (very expensive).

Devastator
14-12-2009, 07:39
imperial fist vs iron warriors
beserkers vs noise marines

hendybadger
14-12-2009, 17:11
The veiws I have on the IG are just my personnal ones. i dont disagree with anything said, but I just dont like them.
Sisters are the same sort of thing for me. Dont likt the armour or icons.
For facing the Necrons I may just end up using a general good force that will level up the whole project. Maybe Tau?

Edit: This is strange. I had a reply e.mail and when I looked theres no replies. Bug?