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Joshwow1
16-12-2009, 05:06
Although Space Hulk was an obvious foreshadowing to the next armies (Tyranids in january, then blood angels) the book after that (power armoured, of course) is a HUGE mystery. Some say BT....and the others....say BT too right?

Well, I saw a discussion as of why Iron Hands never got a special character in Codex: Space Marines.....and that's an obvious answer....they do not follow the codex astartes. So what if their a first founding? so were all the other divergent marine books (aside from BT) Not once did I see anyone say that, but what ever. (Just for reference, they do not have a Chapter Master, their techmarines and chaplains are fused into Iron Fathers, and do not own a scout company, and often let dreadnoughts lead armies, while letting space marine sergeants done terminator armor).

GW also have been making books for armies that need a new model range (aside from marines). Started with Orks, spread to IG, space wolves, now Tyranids, next blood angels, necrons or dark elves afterwards.

So I got to thinking, BT already have a solid book with GREAT models. And GW has made books for all divergent marines (Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars) which comes down to one final divergent chapter, that has virtually NO range (just a random, over priced tactical squad box with nifty bits) and has SO much potential (I was coming up with rules for them in my head, such as purchasing bionic arms to increase strength, bionic legs to increase initiative, bionic eyes for BS, taking dreadnoughts as HQ's, terminator sergeant upgrades riding in rhinos!)

So from a model stand point, they can do it. From a rules stand point, they can do it. Will they make money??? absolutely. They're marines, they're divergent, and cyborgs in power armor sounds awesome (ties with Mars and the C'tan can draw in all of those techies and necron heads)

Seems like a good business move. Also seems like they might be doing something for them.....but maybe I am just thinking wishfully :chrome:

SPYDER68
16-12-2009, 05:25
Black Templar book is far from solid.. its almost on the lower end..

I highly doubt they will release a *new* marine army anytime soon..

shabbadoo
16-12-2009, 05:35
Yep. If there isn't decal for a chapter on the Space Marine decal sheet, don't expect anything for it from GW. Forgeworld perhaps, but not GW.

Dark_Templar
16-12-2009, 05:36
Personally, I do not think BT will receive an update until 2011. I believe they will be second last to receive one this edition.

There is no way another SM Codex will be added to the range until GW start merging the non-Codex Chapters into a large tome. BA/BT/DA all in one book, 150 pages, 50pgs dedicated to each.

GW have trouble with the amount of books they have already, there is no way they can add any more marines, or races, until they streamline the marine books.

DT.

Voss
16-12-2009, 05:52
Seems like a good business move. Also seems like they might be doing something for them.....but maybe I am just thinking wishfully :chrome:

You probably are. While they don't have a worthless special character to cheer them on, they're easily done with current space marine codex. The Master of the Forge is pretty much the key to an iron warriors army, and cybernetic conversions are fairly straightforward and easily added to tac squads or whatever.

Personally, the BT were the biggest codex mistake GW made (well, except possibly the inquisition ones). A third close combat chapter? Joy. And some no-name second founding jerks to boot?

But unlike Dark Templar, I don't see any consolidation of marine chapters in the future. Its pretty much they only way GW manages to milk the extra cash out of the marine line.

Joshwow1
16-12-2009, 05:52
Black Templars are a very good army, fifth edition has made them extremely awesome with army wide Preferred Enemy.

It's just that black templar players do not play to their strengths. Taking multiple expensive HQ's that will never earn pts back, taking senseless upgrades. IMO the best and only (also mandatory) option is the EC. I cringe when I have to play black templars, simply because they ALMOST have a monolith (land raider with blessed hull) and vindicators with machine spirits. It's insanity. Beatable, but insanity.

I do see GW going the way of taking all divergent chapters and putting them into a single large book as they did with codex astartes chapters.

Joshwow1
16-12-2009, 05:54
Yeah, with a bit of imagination the IH can be done with codex marines....but it doesn't do their fluff justice (at all) considering (again) they are NOT a codex astartes army.

MajorWesJanson
16-12-2009, 08:04
Iron Hands actually works pretty well with the Wolf Codex.

Xelloss
16-12-2009, 08:22
Black Templars are a very good army, fifth edition has made them extremely awesome with army wide Preferred Enemy.
Preferred enemy is very good, but don't make up for all the things 5th edition and the new SM codex "nerfed" in the BT codex : 1A powerfist, Righteous Zeal only the shadow it once was, Kill them all rule, non-free frag and krak grenades, CT2 PotMS, old drop-pod rules,more expensive rhinos and razorback, etc... The army is still fun to play, but is far from competitive.


Taking multiple expensive HQ's that will never earn pts back
Thank you mister, this is guy that think like you that made the justification for the silly KP rules. Stop using this goddamn expression !


land raider with blessed hull
This is not a problem in an army that didn't explicitly was made against eldar. This upgrade is expensive and only usefull against them.


Iron Hands actually works pretty well with the Wolf Codex.
With a codex like this, which SM army don't work "pretty well" with the new wolf codex ? :-p

The Ginger Ninja
16-12-2009, 08:27
We don't need more marines, gw should get off their lazy a***s and fix the codexes that need new codexes, i am pretty sure DE and necrons need a new codex rather then bugs, let alone more marines

Xelloss
16-12-2009, 08:52
We don't need more marines, gw should get off their lazy a***s and fix the codexes that need new codexes, i am pretty sure DE and necrons need a new codex rather then bugs, let alone more marines
:eyebrows: Thank you for your constructive answer. It surely brings a whole new dimension to this forum, as no one ever thought mentioning it before. It surely need a lots of comments as this point has never been answered ever.

Scythe
16-12-2009, 09:39
Seems like a good business move. Also seems like they might be doing something for them.....but maybe I am just thinking wishfully :chrome:

The problem here is... they currently don't sell, and are rarely seen. Marine codexes are based on popularity of a chapter, and to be honest, Iron Hands are probably the least popular first founding chapter, and trail behind a couple of second founding chapters as well. They are the only first founding chapter without a character or unit at all (like you said), which is partially the cause of their inpopularity no doubt. And the fact is, GW releases army books based on popularity. I am still convinced that Black Templars only got their own 4th edition codex because the 3rd edition small armageddon Templar list was so powerfull tons of people started (and later quit) Black Templars.

I see codexes of most FF chapters long before I see an Iron Hands codex to be honest, although I still hope the variant dexes are discontinued (yeah, not going to happen, I know).

What I could see though is inclusion of the Iron Hands in some form in a possible Adeptus Mechanicus codex. After all, they have strong ties to the machine, so they would fit right in, and they don't have to 'carry' a whole codex on their own that way.

the1stpip
16-12-2009, 09:50
:eyebrows: Thank you for your constructive answer. It surely brings a whole new dimension to this forum, as no one ever thought mentioning it before. It surely need a lots of comments as this point has never been answered ever.

Thank you for your criticisms. Keep up the flaming war, and the mods will close the thread.

primarch16
16-12-2009, 12:27
I'd actually rather have my Black Templar rhino with 4th edition smoke launchers and cheap extra armour over the new cheap marine rhinos...

1 Attack with my powerfist doesnt bother me, its almost guarenteed to hit.

Righteouse Zeal is still usefull, just dont expect it to get you into combat.

A new codex would be nice, but we really dont need it that much at the moment. Not as much as other armys need it anyway.

Vaktathi
16-12-2009, 13:07
Although Space Hulk was an obvious foreshadowing to the next armies (Tyranids in january, then blood angels) the book after that (power armoured, of course) is a HUGE mystery. Some say BT....and the others....say BT too right?

Well, I saw a discussion as of why Iron Hands never got a special character in Codex: Space Marines.....and that's an obvious answer....they do not follow the codex astartes. So what if their a first founding? so were all the other divergent marine books (aside from BT) Not once did I see anyone say that, but what ever. (Just for reference, they do not have a Chapter Master, their techmarines and chaplains are fused into Iron Fathers, and do not own a scout company, and often let dreadnoughts lead armies, while letting space marine sergeants done terminator armor).

GW also have been making books for armies that need a new model range (aside from marines). Started with Orks, spread to IG, space wolves, now Tyranids, next blood angels, necrons or dark elves afterwards.

So I got to thinking, BT already have a solid book with GREAT models. And GW has made books for all divergent marines (Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars) which comes down to one final divergent chapter, that has virtually NO range (just a random, over priced tactical squad box with nifty bits) and has SO much potential (I was coming up with rules for them in my head, such as purchasing bionic arms to increase strength, bionic legs to increase initiative, bionic eyes for BS, taking dreadnoughts as HQ's, terminator sergeant upgrades riding in rhinos!)

So from a model stand point, they can do it. From a rules stand point, they can do it. Will they make money??? absolutely. They're marines, they're divergent, and cyborgs in power armor sounds awesome (ties with Mars and the C'tan can draw in all of those techies and necron heads)

Seems like a good business move. Also seems like they might be doing something for them.....but maybe I am just thinking wishfully :chrome:

I really doubt we'll see a *new* marine army, there's no point. Just because they don't rigidly follow the fluff Codex Astartes doesn't mean the Codex:Space Marines can't portray a perfectly fluffy and competitive force for them. Iron Hands do just fine with the normal SM book, or if you'd rather the SW book.

The only possible new SM book that GW has ever even whispered of doing would be Chaos Legions armies. For what is the smallest fighting force in the galaxy, the Space Marines sure do have a lot of army books, with less differentiation between most of them than you can get out of the Imperial Guard codex alone. There's just no point to another Loyalist marine book, most of the current ones in all honesty aren't different enough to really need their own books in the first place and sales will simply start to cannibalize each other (or more realistically take it further than they already do) with more SM books. I'm not seeing what would make Iron Hands different enough that they would need their own book that cannot be well represented with the current SM (or SW) book.

Max1mum
16-12-2009, 13:17
I know forgeworld want to do Iron Hands. ( or at least a staff member of foregworld would liek them to )

I know this because last year on the 'frenzy' (a dutch mini games day) forgeworld was present.

And in a conversation between a friend of mine who plays iron hands, and a forgeworld staff member the topic was brought up. Apperently the iron hands have been moved back in favour of other projects(continuasly) .

Narf
16-12-2009, 13:49
Gw tends to like 4/5 year cycles

hence 5 marine codex's is a good plan, keeps there top dogs and money makers at the top, release them once a year and no-one forgets about them

Chaos has 2 releases, maybe this could be made into 3 with traitor guard (but why when you can just use guard), or 4/5 with 1 or 2 legion books

so thats 2 releases a year, means they then only have time for 5 more releases over 5 years (3 a year) of which inquisitor armies and guard will be 2 of these......

can you see the problem, GW cant do any more marine books, it cant do any more chaos books, in fact its pretty much at the limit of codex's it can release over 5 year periods at 15-18 codex's

It would be nice to see linked codex's though, say your playing Chaos marines, you can take a core of chaos marines, then add guard or daemons

Playing marines, core marines, add guard or inquisition

playing tau add guard or eldar

playing eldar add tau or inquisition (not xenos)

etc

Bunnahabhain
16-12-2009, 13:53
I really doubt we'll see a *new* marine army, there's no point. Just because they don't rigidly follow the fluff Codex Astartes doesn't mean the Codex:Space Marines can't portray a perfectly fluffy and competitive force for them. Iron Hands do just fine with the normal SM book, or if you'd rather the SW book.

The only possible new SM book that GW has ever even whispered of doing would be Chaos Legions armies. For what is the smallest fighting force in the galaxy, the Space Marines sure do have a lot of army books, with less differentiation between most of them than you can get out of the Imperial Guard codex alone. There's just no point to another Loyalist marine book, most of the current ones in all honesty aren't different enough to really need their own books in the first place and sales will simply start to cannibalize each other (or more realistically take it further than they already do) with more SM books. I'm not seeing what would make Iron Hands different enough that they would need their own book that cannot be well represented with the current SM (or SW) book.

This.

If the marine books are cannibalising each other, then marine chapter sales are also cannibalising each other.

GW make their money selling models, not rules. GW and/or FW can keep producing more conversion kits ( ie a sprue with shoulder pads, rhino hatches and any iconic bits for their chapter. Oh look, a whole new chapter bing supported!) for more marine chapters, without needing more codexs.

Personally, I am a strong supporter of One marine codex. Unlikely, but I live in hope.

The Marshel
16-12-2009, 14:26
oh wouldn't the non marine portion of the fanbase have a field day, yet another marine codex.
I dont really think they ought to be adding any more armies, marine, imperium or xenos unti
ll they update all the current codexes

Lord Malorne
16-12-2009, 14:44
I live happily in the knowledge that there will never be a all-in-one-book marine codex. And hope that happiness will never be shattered for mere convenience' sake.


I'd actually rather have my Black Templar rhino with 4th edition smoke launchers and cheap extra armour over the new cheap marine rhinos...

1 Attack with my powerfist doesnt bother me, its almost guarenteed to hit.

Righteouse Zeal is still usefull, just dont expect it to get you into combat.

A new codex would be nice, but we really dont need it that much at the moment. Not as much as other armys need it anyway.

Hear hear!

All the other marine books suck, they need done first.

Lord Malorneshel