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shadow hunter
20-12-2009, 18:48
So, we (goldfish) finally had our second fantasy game. The first involved a tooled up Daemon Prince for him, and a Vermin Lord for me. And it was a victory for the ratmen. This time we both created new lists (although due to a lack of models on his side - the variations are generally marks and heros)

We both play for fun, so although I'd read how weak certain things were - i wanted to try them out anyway as I like the look of the models;

Skaven
Warlord Queek
BSB - great weapon, foul pendant, portents
warlock - condensor, pistol, scrying stone
Assassin - rival hide, blade of corruption

25 clanrats, FC, Ratling gun, shields
25 spearrats, FC, ratling gun, shields
21 Stormvermin (queeks elite upgrade) shields, FC, Wft, shroud of dripping
20 slaves
20 slaves
2 rat swarms
21 giant rats (including 2 packmasters and Skweel)

3 Ratogres (plus 1 packmaster)
6 Jezzails

1 Doomwheel
1 WLC

Warriors of chaos
Lord on Daemonic steed. Rune sword and regen crown, acid blood, mark of khorne
exhalted hero. shield mark of khorne
lvl2 sorcerer. MoT spell familier

15 Chaos warriors - Shield, MoK, FC, ward save from shooting
15 Chaos warriors - Shield, MoK, FC
17 Marauders - MoK, shield, light armour, FC
6 warhounds
5 Marauder horsemen - throwing axes, FC, MoK

5 Knights, FC, MoK, Warbanner
5 Knights, FC, frenzy banner

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4149/snc00055h.jpg (http://img696.imageshack.us/i/snc00055h.jpg/)
By tinmasse (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/tinmasse)

I think i remembered everything above.
Onto the game. He setup up terrain and put a couple of woods midway on the table. (see pics) and then I picked sides (which was the side I was sat at, due to being on crutches - lol)

Deployment ended (my left to right)
Chaos - Lord on mount, warriors, hill, knights, marauder horsemen, open ground/river, sorcerer, marauders, warriors, knights, warhounds

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5420/snc00057x.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/snc00057x.jpg/)
By tinmasse (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/tinmasse)

Skaven- RatOgres, Skweel and gaint rats, slaves, ratswarm (jezzails behind), river, Stormvermin (with BSB and Queek), spearrats (warlock), slaves, clarats behind (with assassin), WLC behind that, Doomwheel

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/6138/snc00056.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/snc00056.jpg/)
By tinmasse (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/tinmasse)

I got first turn, and took it to try and get some early shots off. Moving was a little shuffling forward on right flank (wheel went 8") and bigger movement on left. Magic was out of range, so shooting phase. A knight fell to Jezzails (i think opponent wasn't aware of their range) and two warriors fell to the WLC.

Chaos first turn. He moves everything forward. When moving his marauder horsemen he realised he could have charged the ratswarms as he was near enough. I allowed it (we are still learning - so we are being sporting). No shooting and magic was dispelled. In combat the marauders kill a ratswarm, for one loss.

Skaven turn 2. I charge the Marauder horsemen with skweel (forgot to roll for his abilities - but didn't need it anyway in the end) Doomwheel charges warhounds, Slaves on right charge warriors, Rat Ogres also try but are 1/2" short... Bum. everything else shuffles forward.

http://img101.photolava.com/2009/12/20/snc00058-xaux0hdb.jpg
http://img101.photolava.com/2009/12/20/snc00059-3tdxyr0s.jpg

Magic - warlock attempts death frenzy on left slaves but is dispelled.

Shooting, WLC only gets Strength 2, but the blast covers 6 warriors. 2 more fall. Jezzails shoot at Knights again (only 4 can see) and despite keep hitting with 2 Jezzails i keep rolling a 1, and I think he saves the other wound. Ratling gun kills a couple of warriors and the Doomwheel shoots into the warhounds it is fighting, but miscasts. Rolling the d6 wounds on itself. it luckily only suffers one wound but loses a d6 movement.
In combat Doomwheel kills 4 hounds on impacts, all the other hits (6 of them) fail to wound. Its enough to make them flee though, and it runs them down despite only 2 d6 movement now.
Slaves do nothing to warriros, who in turn cut down 6 or 7. they explode but take nothing with them (despite the range including knights, warriors, chaos lord) however, they do take a wound off a rat ogre.
Skweel kills 4 remaining Marauder horsemen on his own. (handy those extra attacks)

Chaos turn 2

Lord, warriors and knights charge rat ogres. warriors charge right slaves, as do knights. Marauders move round woods towards Queek and stormvermin.
Magic- sorcerer attempts a spell that makes storm vermin take a leadership test or suffer wounds with no armour save. I allow it through confident in queeks leadership (bonus at 10) and he duly passes. He then attempts to create a exhalted hero in a unit but its oout of range.
combat - knights and warriors slaughter slaves (explode does no damage) and knights attempt to overrun into clanrats but are 1/2" short. Warriors however, manage to overrun into spearrats.
Lord challenges and masterbred rat ogre accepts. It is then reduced back to the individual parts that made the whole. The warriors and knights wipe out the rest of the unit. They all hold.

http://img101.photolava.com/2009/12/20/snc00060-3dbdw3fb.jpg
http://img101.photolava.com/2009/12/20/snc00061-j295rts5.jpg
http://img101.photolava.com/2009/12/20/snc00062-wkn5kq9y.jpg

Skaven turn 3.
I start to rush Skweel towards my right flank to try and get behind the enemy and help wipe them out. it would also leave a big portion of his army (lord warriors and knights) way over on the left flank with nothing to attack (apart from a rat swarm I left there to slow them down)
Stormvermin charge Marauders, and clanrats charge Knights (both forgot fear test)
Magic - warlock in combat, trys death frenzy but fails the cast.
Shooting - WLC shoots at the mass on my left. The bast is S10 and goes through a Knight vaporising him, and the blast lands bang on the Chaos Lords head (it was a 45" guess, plus 10" very lucky) but then lady luck leaves, and I roll a 1 to wound :rolleyes:
Jezzails I think i forgot to shoot them, cause nothing died. The Doomwheel shoots and kills 2 warriors who were in combat with spearrats. Looked up rules and couldn't see what to do when it shoots into combat. It simply said it hits nearest model (which was the warriors).
Combats, Queek issues a challenge, and the Marauder chieftain accepts. He is then cut into pieces (4 wounds). The BSB then kills another 2, and the rest of the stormvermin kill one more. The banner also kills one for 8 dead. We dont bother adding up and he rolls to try and get snake eyes. Nope. The flee but are run down. The sorcerer flees in panic.
Warriors on right with exalted hero challenges. My champion rather then warlock accepts. He is cut down (just). the rest of the warriors kill about 5 spearrats. I dont hit anything back, but the combat is only lost by 1. they hold.
Clanrats v knights - Assassin burst out of unit and challenges knight champion. He proceeds to only hit once, and doesn't wound :rolleyes: what a pathetic assassin. Knight rolls well, and hits 3 times. I use rival hide and he re-rolls them, so only one hit now. I take ward save and fail. Rest of Knights are unharmed and butcher about 7 clanrats. They flee and escape.

Warriors turn 3
Lord warriors and Knights on left advance towarsd Jezzails. Knights on right charge clanrats/assassin who flee off board. They redirect into WLC. Sorcerer rallys.
Magic. I am sooooo stupid. He casts the leadership spell with 2 dice on my stormvermin again. I for some reason decide to dispell it, instead of relying on my leadership 10. He then casts the "fight amongst yourself spell" which I can do nothing about (for some reason i thought he wouldn't get a 9 :eyebrows: ) and 7 Stormvermin are cutdown by their own blades.
In combat Knights destory WLC, Warriors on right challenge (Hero v Warlock) and he causes 3 wounds.... damn. Even with scrying stone, its still 2 wounds, and down falls the warlock. Rest of warriors kill a lot of clanrats, and they run - but are caught by the warriors.


Game ends there, as my opponent has a call from his Wife - and even Khorne doesn't ignore those sort of phone calls. :p

We dont add up points - Warriors take the victory. I would liked to see if I could have got it a bit closer in the last few turns. My Doomwheel was behind the warriors and KNights, which would have been useful. Queek and his body guard were also nearby. And Sqweel was heading for his sorcerer.

However, he still had a full warrior unit, 3 Knights and Lord on Daemonic mount with only 6 Jezzails to slow them down.

It was a fun game, and I learned loads. I learned that a Khorne marked Warriors army are rock hard in combat with tonnes of attacks. I learned that certain things really are rubbish. lol. (assassin, rat ogres). I learned that weapons teams are rather expensive for what little gain I (a novice) can get out of them. I also learned that even the little bit of shuffling towards the chaos wasn't wise. Sit further back and shoot more first !!! :cries:

So we now need a decider game. I didn't really want to tailor a list - but his army is strong, so I figure I need a couple of things nastier. I need to negate armour more.

So I might try a greyseer (on a bell - why not) a plague priest again. Poison wind globadiers seems a good idea. Maybe the odd poison globe mortar as a weapons team instead. And try and get more units. I was rubbish at trying to get him to charge and then flee (I forgot the flee part :p ) leaving him open to flank charges.

Ohwell, I learned more than the game I won, so I am happy overall.


And Goldfish - if you read this....... the decider awaits.

Boss_Salvage
20-12-2009, 19:46
Cheers for the report, and I do wonder how things would have gone there at the end. Though it did seem like his high cost dudes were rampaging unopposed, with no way for your few stragglers to smack them down ...

I'm curious, how did the vermin lord do for you? I've only played 1 game with the new skaven, and I ran a 2250 w/ vermin lord list that I'd really like to make work, but it was against khorne warriors (;)) and I got crushed. He allowed me a lot of freedom with the VL, and I somewhat foolishly charged head-on into 5 khorne knights. The VL killed 0 knights with his 5 S6 WS8 attaks, took 3 wounds and only stayed in the game because of the +1" flee rule :p And everything else in my army - including the abomination - just bounced off his armor, truly sad. My 14 globbies kinda bombed it too, but those have always been a dice game anyway.

- Salvage

SevenSins
20-12-2009, 19:51
nice rep and pics.
Plague censer bearers and poison wind globadiers are the bane of chaos knights and warriors.

Remember that his frenzied knights always overrun if able (he held them turn 2, that's not legal) so bait their charges to draw them out of position.

against woc the assassin really isn't all that good, change him for more rats.

looking forward to the decider :)

shadow hunter
21-12-2009, 08:08
Cheers for the report, and I do wonder how things would have gone there at the end. Though it did seem like his high cost dudes were rampaging unopposed, with no way for your few stragglers to smack them down ...

I'm curious, how did the vermin lord do for you? I've only played 1 game with the new skaven, and I ran a 2250 w/ vermin lord list that I'd really like to make work, but it was against khorne warriors (;)) and I got crushed. He allowed me a lot of freedom with the VL, and I somewhat foolishly charged head-on into 5 khorne knights. The VL killed 0 knights with his 5 S6 WS8 attaks, took 3 wounds and only stayed in the game because of the +1" flee rule :p And everything else in my army - including the abomination - just bounced off his armor, truly sad. My 14 globbies kinda bombed it too, but those have always been a dice game anyway.

- Salvage

I dont think I could have won, but maybe get a draw with some good manouvering. On my right I had a Doomwheel behind his units, and Queek on his way - with his 6 attacks ignoring armour, that would be useful. Also Skweel was on his way over to help, and also ignores armour with two attacks. I think they would have took care of the knights and warriors left there. It would then just be his others on the way over. The jezzails (6) had a line of sight to both knights and lord on the left and probably two turns of firing before they would be in combat. So it was possible to whittle them down. Ohwell.

The Vermin Lord did well. But we are both new players so he didn't know how to deal with it. I didn't charge it into any combats until the end when he cuold flank charge. I used him more as a mobile terror causing spell caster. At one point I rant into his line late in the game and cast the cloud spell. A unit of knights, warriors and his deamon prince were all in range and took wounds. That was the best thing he did probably. Dunno if he's worth 500pts, but he was good fun.

shadow hunter
21-12-2009, 08:14
nice rep and pics.
Plague censer bearers and poison wind globadiers are the bane of chaos knights and warriors.

Remember that his frenzied knights always overrun if able (he held them turn 2, that's not legal) so bait their charges to draw them out of position.

against woc the assassin really isn't all that good, change him for more rats.

looking forward to the decider :)

Didn't realise/remember about frenzy having to overrun. Its one of the reasons of writing them up herre - as I hope you guys will point out faults, errors or tactical blunders :p so that we can learn from them. Thanks.

I have 5 globadiers, and was thinking of having them next game. I dont have any actual censor bearers - but have made 4 look a likes using the flails in the plague monk box. I could use those next game (adding a coupe more if I can get sommet built).

I was umming and aahring over the assassin. I had a good idea he would be rubbish - but wanted to try first. Against warriors he doesn't have enough attacks or strength really. He'll be out next game. He's far too expensive too (came to 170pts !!!)

Well I'm off work at the moment - so I'll keep hasseling for the rematch and let you know.

thanks for the input

SevenSins
21-12-2009, 14:25
an assassin with weeping blade is more of an ogre/big beast slayer (as long as they don't have armor)
An assassin with just some extra attacks (tail weap?) and poison might be ok to generate kills vs RnF (not warriors of chaos obviously)

Rajhald
21-12-2009, 15:04
I like it, very nice list, lots of rats. I definitely think the PCB's would be the perfect addition. Maybe 2 units of 6, they are frenzied to keep them behind the slaves/rats until you can get in the flank but they will destroy RnF warriors, or even Chosen Knights.

I like the doomwheel, mostly the model but I've seen the HPA be incredibly effective.

Foegnasher
21-12-2009, 17:56
Next game try a few dirty tricks. Angle your slaves so his overrun opens the flank of his knights.

Lead with your slaves, but flee and get caught makeing his knights go their full charge. Again, opening flanks for counter charges (or a hail of warpstone death from the jezzails and ratlinguns. )

Don't fight fair and you ace this guy. As noted before, tool up the no armor save stuff vs warriors.

Better luck next time clan-brother.

shadow hunter
21-12-2009, 22:24
Thanks, it was my intention to try and flee and bait him into counter charges into flanks. but I didn't do it very well. I think I needed more units to do it properely, so i'm thinking of dropping a lot of the expensive stuff out. (weapons teams, assassins, upgraded storm vermin).

Not sure if to try a bell out next game or not. Definantly gonna try a grey seer next (although was thinking of giving ikit claw a try too)

Malorian
23-12-2009, 13:16
"Game ends there, as my opponent has a call from his Wife - and even Khorne doesn't ignore those sort of phone calls."

So very true :)

Nice report and hope to see more!

thebiggoldfish
24-12-2009, 10:04
Next game try a few dirty tricks. Angle your slaves so his overrun opens the flank of his knights.

Lead with your slaves, but flee and get caught makeing his knights go their full charge. Again, opening flanks for counter charges (or a hail of warpstone death from the jezzails and ratlinguns. )

Don't fight fair and you ace this guy. As noted before, tool up the no armor save stuff vs warriors.

Better luck next time clan-brother.

Don't tell him to fight dirty, he's a bloody nighmare lol

It was a good game i really enjoyed it and it was a shame i got summoned back by "she who must be obeyed" that said i would have marched all over the board squashing those dirty little rats with my big boots :rolleyes:.

I also promise to get more stuff painted i'm quite fussy about my stuff tbh as shadow will tell you if it's not painted it's not glued together lol. Hence the plain horse bases lol

I'm getting a couple of new bits for my next encounter hopefully i know i need to get something else as he will be playing dirty to get me :p

Infact i'm off to order some stuff now Merry Christmas all :D

Unuhexium
25-12-2009, 11:08
Bonus points for pics. Always adds a lot to a report.

warlord hack'a
03-01-2010, 21:40
nice table and nice battle! Next time when you face so many frenzied chaos buggers, do NOT, I repeat, do NOT hang back: move your slave blocks and rat swarm forward and angle them indeed. You need to move forward to be able to properly angle them and to make sure there is enough room between this front line of charge baiters and your counter charging rats. He has to charge with frenzied units that can, they will expose their flank and bang, with your +5 static CR you hit them in the flank (giving you an addition +1 CR for flanking), you win.

shadow hunter
04-01-2010, 11:08
The table still isnt finished, just not got the will to finish it off lately. Its good enough though, and is able to be altered to create about 4 different versions. I am quite happy with it overall, and didn't cost that much (just time).

I've since had another game which went really well for me. I did push the slaves forward and used them to angle his units, and things went better for me. (its in another thread here). Its all practise i guess. We are both slowly improving though.

warlord hack'a
04-01-2010, 11:32
sorry to go slightly off topic but how did you get the nice green flock on the tabel? Is it one of those 'flocked tabel cloths' (for lack of a better word) or did you flock it yourself?

shadow hunter
04-01-2010, 11:52
I searched ebay for it. I bought first from B+Q DiY store a pack of insulation foam.

I then added polystyrene sheets and also carved into the boards the shapes I wanted. I then used the rolls of paper flocked mats I found on ebay.

GW used to do their own (which look best) but I couldn't find any left at first, so started with another brand (a railway model company I think) I then PVA'd the foam and lay the paper flock mat ontop. I then left it for about a minute, then peeled it off and re-lay it (as otherwise the moisture causes it to stretch and leave bubbles.) Just lay out a section at a time, and take your time. You need a very sharpe (scalpel) knife to cut inscisions so that you can follow the contours of the board.

shadow hunter
04-01-2010, 11:54
Sorry, I wasn't clear - the paper matt is actually static grass - NOT flock.

You can get different colours (summer, autumn etc) and I have since found (and bought) the GW version.

warlord hack'a
04-01-2010, 20:25
thanks, got one of those myself but like to keep it as a rolleable table. Good to know however that once I get round to making modular terrain I am best of using the static grass matts.