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Obeisance
30-01-2006, 17:33
Soo.. I've had another forum review this list and I thought I may as well see what people here have to say about it.

I'm attempting to build a solid VC army for tournament play (ie; take all-comers) and don't want to hear any OMG TAKE 12 LEVELS OF MAGIC IT IS UBER crap. The power-level here is midrange and people generally play fair. Also comp.

So yeah. Any opinions upon what follows?

301 - Carstien Count: L2, Ring of the Night, Great Weapon, Gem of the Blood. (Replace Gem with Aura of Dark Majesty?)

140 - Necro: L2, Dispel Scroll, Black Periapt.
150 - Necro: L2, Dispel Scroll, Book of Ark.
82 - Wight Lord: Gw, Sh, Ha, Barded Steed.

225 - 20 Skeletons: Full Command.
225 - 20 Skeletons: Full Command.
50 - 5 Wolves.
50 - 5 Wolves.
48 - 6 Ghouls.
48 - 6 Ghouls.
48 - 6 Ghouls.

310 -9 Knights: Barding, Full Command, Banner of the Barrows.
60 - 3 Bats.
60 - 3 Bats.

200 - Black Coach. (Not sure if I should take this.)

1997pts, 88 models.

So?

Latro
30-01-2006, 18:38
Soo.. I've had another forum review this list and I thought I may as well see what people here have to say about it.

I'm attempting to build a solid VC army for tournament play (ie; take all-comers) and don't want to hear any OMG TAKE 12 LEVELS OF MAGIC IT IS UBER crap. The power-level here is midrange and people generally play fair. Also comp.

So yeah. Any opinions upon what follows?

First impression? ... nice allround list. No obvious weakness, nothing over the top either ... should do well when played by an experienced player.


301 - Carstien Count: L2, Ring of the Night, Great Weapon, Gem of the Blood. (Replace Gem with Aura of Dark Majesty?)

140 - Necro: L2, Dispel Scroll, Black Periapt.
150 - Necro: L2, Dispel Scroll, Book of Ark.
82 - Wight Lord: Gw, Sh, Ha, Barded Steed.

I would take the Aura over the Gem anyday, you allready have a ward-save and with healing magic your Count should be quite save.

Necro's look fine, good items. Wight is cheap but effective, no problems here.


225 - 20 Skeletons: Full Command.
225 - 20 Skeletons: Full Command.

I prefer zombie units for cheap fodder and a unit of armoured skeletons for staying power ... but your choices are fine as well, 's a matter of taste.


50 - 5 Wolves.
50 - 5 Wolves.

Always handy, especially to re-direct charges of the enemy into awkward angles.


48 - 6 Ghouls.
48 - 6 Ghouls.
48 - 6 Ghouls.

Remember, Ghouls do need to test for psychology ... I always tak units of 9 or 10 and that's for a reason. They may be cheap, but they're also just too good to simply throw away.


310 -9 Knights: Barding, Full Command, Banner of the Barrows.

Fine hammer-unit.


60 - 3 Bats.
60 - 3 Bats.

Nice and flexible ... one bigger unit might be more reliable, but again it's a matter of taste.


200 - Black Coach. (Not sure if I should take this.

Don't like it. Sure, it might do great on the field ... but when all 's said and done it's still a 200 pts chariot with all the vulnerabilities they have.


:cool:

Brother Edwin
30-01-2006, 19:15
This is very similar to my list, just swap the coash for black knights and the wightlord for a necromancer.


I think theres not much to change, but I would personelly lose a bat unit for another dog unit since you dont have the magic to gurante summund units of misdirectors.

sephiroth87
30-01-2006, 19:33
I'd change the gem of blood for the aura of dark majesty. The rebound on the wound isn't that good when you consider that you have the ability to heal your wounds and already use an invulnerable save. The aura, however, extends your radius of leadership so that your ghouls and your dogs can zip around the flanks without getting stuck outside the march/leadership range.

As for the Black Coach, it's a 200 point chariot. It's good, mind you, but it's dead if a cannonball hits it. Keep that in mind. But I love playing with it, because it's characterful and fun. Tactically speaking, though, I'd rather take three spirit host bases, which are just brutal for their points. They're fast, they can flank, they're hard to wound, and they can be healed by your necromancers and vampire.

As it is, it's a very solid and good list. Kudos.

Obeisance
31-01-2006, 03:51
Hm.

Swaping Gem for Aura.
Ghouls into 2x9.

Spirithosts don't seem to be brutally efficient, but.. I was aiming for two hammers plus the count's unit.

Tell me why and how you'd prefer to use Spirithosts over the Coach?

the_night_reaper
31-01-2006, 13:23
I would take another unit of black knights instead of the coach. Lets say 6 black kninghts with full command. Comes to 190pts, leaves you 10 pts to get another ghoul bringing one of the 2 9 strong units to 10 strong. Or you could get a ghast.

Keller
31-01-2006, 15:30
I'd like to point out that you have to swap the Gem for the Aura. Both the Gem and the Ring of the Night are Talismans, of which you may only have 1.

If you are not taking equipment for your skeletons, I would replace them with zombies. You trade a 6/5+ save and initiative for saved points, but easier to summon units. Plus, its just cool to watch zombies devour enemies! But as stated, its more about preference than anything.

As others, and yourself seem to agree, make the ghouls into 2 units of 9 to ease panic checks. Their Ld will have them running in no time.

The Black Coach is vulnerable to high strength attacks, but it does have a ward to protect it. I don't often use mine, mostly due to its cost, but it can be a lot of fun to play with, and adds some nice tactical flexibility. It can do some damage, and really take some once you start making kills. Combat res is its biggest fear, as with all chariots, but as you kill models, you can afford the wounds you lose from CR. Run it through a unit of scouts or fast cav before you hit enemy infantry, and you should have plenty of wounds to sustain casualaties. Terror can be pretty helpful too!

Alco Engineer
31-01-2006, 22:13
I do like the black coach, for me (I know that this is rare though) it's generally the last thing to die. I usually cruise it up next to the black knights and let it run over people. Don't underestimate terror. It can be really handy at dealing with low Ld models near the coach's next intended target. I usually take 7 Black knights with a thrall on a nightmare with a front rank of 5. the back 2 are generally just casualties. This is the hard hitting unit and when used with the coach descimate nearly everything (a flank charge from a unit of Dire wolves is good too) I guess you just have to out maneouver the St7 weapons and characters to keep the coach alive.

sephiroth87
01-02-2006, 18:14
Spirithosts don't seem to be brutally efficient, but.. I was aiming for two hammers plus the count's unit.

Tell me why and how you'd prefer to use Spirithosts over the Coach?

Spirit Hosts are capable of so many things that it's hard not to use them after you play with them a few times.

Uses of the Spirit Host

1. Flank enemy units. Spirit Hosts are extremely fast in comparison to the rest of the Vampire Counts army. Send them into a unit's flank, and their unit strength of 3 per base will negate the ranks. In relation to the Black Coach, they're much easier to maneuver into a good charge spot. The Black Coach gets a big charge, but not a great movement. And it's a bigger target, which means that it's easier to see and a lot easier to target. The Hosts get to move 12'' all the time, along with a 12'' charge. On top of this, they ignore terrain when moving, which meanst that if you have any cover at all, you can start behind the cover so that you can't be seen, then move straight through it, even if it's a wall or building.

2. Hit the enemy unit head on. Spirit Hosts are extremely hard to wound, being ethereal. If your opponent isn't toting a magic sword (most regular units don't have one), then your spirit hosts will tie up and probably grind down a whole unit by themselves. And woe to the enemy that gets hit by 12 attacks a turn, with no ability to return attack. Your opponent will cry as you destroy his biggest unit with something that he can't hurt.

3. Run them in front of your big combat units. If your opponent isn't toting a ton of line of sight offensive spells, run these guys in front of your expensive infantry units. Spirit Hosts still block line of sight to units behind them, so the opponent will shoot at them, then have no real effects because the Hosts are ethereal. It's great against bowmen and the like, since their weapons have absolutlely no effect on Spirit Hosts.

4. As opposed to the black coach, the Spirit host unit can shrug off a cannon ball or two. All it takes for the Black Coach to go belly up is one strength 7 hit. However, it will take 4 Str. 7 hits to reliably drop a host base. And even then, you still have 2 bases left and enough strength to negate the opponent's rank bonuses. And if they don't destroy a whole base? Just heal them with the invocation of nehek. It's not just the vampire that can take advantage of this spell. When a spirit host gets low on wounds, heal it up with the invocation and watch your opponent ask to see your army book. Most people don't realize this until they've played someone who uses Hosts a lot.

Spirit Hosts are a lot more reliable in my opinion, but I like the coach, too. However, you can make ghost noises at your opponent when the hosts charge, which a lot more fun... :D

Obeisance
02-02-2006, 13:02
Ahaha, the selling point was the ghost noises. =D

Considering that the Spirithosts, I can just make them from Zombies or something.. it's saving me some cash.

May as well try them out.