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View Full Version : Talking smack... Now have to fight Demons



Sons of Blight
22-12-2009, 15:26
Long story short my friend was talking about his demons and how over powered they are and that they are broken beyond repair.

Naturally as an orc player I may have belittled his army and challenged him...
(I have never played against demons before) So i figured how bad can they actually be?

Then I began to read the demon book and needless to say... This is going to be an uphill battle. - Like most ork games -

any advice? tactics? words of encouragement?

Valaraukar
22-12-2009, 15:57
Just the obvious I guess.

Take lots of immune to psychology units such as savage orcs and squig hoppers which are also able to inflict heavy damage as there is obviously no chance of breaking them and running them down.

Do you have any idea what sort of list he will be running as that might help.

Foegnasher
22-12-2009, 16:13
Again savage orcs. Chariots. Spearchukkas. Fanatics.

Make the ballsiest most broken unfriendly list you can. Because you are gonna need it.

Valaraukar
22-12-2009, 16:27
If you think he may take a reasonable amount of magic Mork's spirit totem is probably a good bet too as daemon magic can be horrendous.

Isn't there some sneaky item which prevents the opponent from using their ward save? Could be a good bet on any fighty characters.

Also just general tactics wise make sure to concentrate on units you can kill i.e. not plaguebearers and try to gang up on them. Bloodletters, daemonettes and horrors all die pretty easily at t3 5+ ward. Have some cheap fodder units to march block and redirect such as snotlings and fast cavalry then hit them with two or more units as you should outnumber them.

Sons of Blight
22-12-2009, 17:08
i known he'll bring a blood letter and flamers - its a 2250pt. game

Valaraukar
22-12-2009, 17:20
Do you mean a bloodthirster?

Flamers are very nasty, not a great deal you have that can deal with them either as you have little heavy armour and not great massed shooting. Perhaps night goblins archers to try and whittle a few with shooting and release fanatics at them? These are also a prime target for magic as unlike his khornate units have no MR, they are T4 with 2W though so not an easy nut to crack. Even in combat they have 2A at strength 5 and for shooting they skirmish!

Use spear chukkas on the thirster if that is what you meant as it's a large target.

yorch
22-12-2009, 17:27
If I recall correctly zhorga's collar can prove invaluable against the thirster and collar of protection (not in the same pj of course) grants you at least a 5+ ward. Urgok's horn can be really useful too.

For the list...

I would recommend 4 spear chuckas and at least one unit of squig hoppers. Fanatics are not overly useful against DoC, so probably I wouldn't include any footslogging globin unit, but certainly mounted ones are required to bait the heavy hitters...

For magic, I guess you should go defensive unless you want to go VERY magic heavy, so staff of sneaky stealin plus gork's totem should really be enough. If you want to go magic heavy, mix orc & gobs shamans, because if he has the standard of sundering he will only be able to nerf one of the two lores of waagh :)

Bingo the Fun Monkey
22-12-2009, 17:45
8 spear chukkas. Keep shooting at GDs or ranked units and it should help.

Lvl1 Shaman on chariot with bauble and item (dispell scroll)

Goblin Boss with no Ward Trinket and One Hit Wunda on Chariot.

Fanatics.

Lads. Lots of lads.

WAAAAAAAGH!!!

EDIT: for rare you should probably pair up on one thing instead of one of two. Two Giants goes a long ways to attracting Flamer Fire and getting in their face. However, two Doom Divers means you have pretty good odds of sniping out crucial heralds, monsters and GDs. Mork (and Gork) be with you. Crush em!

PeG
22-12-2009, 21:43
lots of attacks are always useful, take flaming attacks if you are taking on nurgle units.

Flamers are going to hurt so if you can kill them do so.

Immune to psychology, frenzied units etc are going to be your friends against fear/terror

If he takes the masque and a BSB he is likely to really hurt your LD. Try killing the masque asap (as always against daemons easier said than done)

stay away from plaguebearer blocks with heralds they just dont die unless you have tons of flaming attacks and you will most likely not get bonuses for flank/rear charges

stay away from great unclean ones, you will strike last, you will not any bonuses for flank/rear charges and he can punch you really hard. With the right gifts I have seen him kill a star dragon in a single turn.

Its difficult to be more specific without more info about your opponent. Daemons can field very different set ups.

Lordsaradain
22-12-2009, 21:54
Best of luck to you. But if I had to face DoC I wouldn't want to be using my greenskin army. :P

Malorian
22-12-2009, 22:00
We need more information. They kind of deamon army he plays makes a BIG difference in the way you fight it.

I've not done too badly against deamons with my orcs and typically put up a good fight (even once beating a deamon player's tournament winning list!).

In general:

-Make sure to have at least 4 chukkas to knock any greater deamon from the sky
-Have a good number of fast cav units to march block and control the movement phase (2-4)
-Doom divers are great for hurting flamers and knocking off wounds from units
-Savage orcs with spears are your best bet if you want to fight back, otherwise stick with plain orcs with shields and counter with chariots.

Storak
22-12-2009, 22:17
lots of attacks are always useful, take flaming attacks if you are taking on nurgle units.

what flaming attacks?


If I recall correctly zhorga's collar can prove invaluable against the thirster

Q&A: collar does no longer work against GDs. sad story.

Edit
22-12-2009, 22:39
Goblin Boss with no Ward Trinket and One Hit Wunda on Giant Cave Squig, as chariots can fail fear/terror checks, mr. big squig laughs in the face of terror (then dies).

theunwantedbeing
22-12-2009, 22:52
Remember the size matters rule.
You can screen your bigger lot with smaller things and there will be no consequences for you at all.
Also, snotlings are 40pts for 2 bases and they're immune to psychology. Your opponent aligns to them when they charge so they make fantastically reliable redirector's.

Throw in wolf riders being 60pts for 5 making great march blocker's as well as being fantastic for getting in the way of things, remember even if thye flee the enemy unit charges towards where they end up, not straight forwards or even where they were before they fled.

Obviously you avoid any plaguebearer bunkers that are feilded against you.
Eadbutting and using Mork want's ya to pluck out the Herald from the unit before you fight it with anything.

Spear Chukka's for dealing with greater daemons.
Characterwise....
Goblin shaman, sneaky staff
Goblin shaman, staff of sorcery
Morks spirit totem on a unit somewhere
8 dispel dice at +1, screws even daemons over a fair bit.

Fanatics are an issue for daemons as well, simply as D6 St5 or 2D6 st5 hits hurts you when all you have is a ward save, and firing flamers at them is a complete waste of shots as it gets them no points at all.

Squigs are good too, simply as 2st5 attacks each is better tham flamers get, so they're great for mauling anything they get to strike first against.

Largely it's a case of not fighting when it's not in your favour to fight.
ie. charging flamers with squig hoppers is just plain stupid, same for running a load of savage orc big'uns with extra choppa's into a unit of ASF daemonettes or plaguebearers with a herald.

Dont bother with item combo's to deal with greater daemons or whatever.
Use goblin's with shortbows or spear chukka's.

Giants work, quite well to be honest.
The issue is keeping them away from the flamers in the opposing army, as soona s they hit combat your set really.

yorch
22-12-2009, 23:02
Q&A: collar does no longer work against GDs. sad story.

Ouch... As I don't use GDs I didn't know that, but it's still quite good against daemons because it really nerfs flesh hounds :)


Goblin Boss with no Ward Trinket and One Hit Wunda on Giant Cave Squig, as chariots can fail fear/terror checks, mr. big squig laughs in the face of terror (then dies).

Really? He is hitting on 5's (WS4 VS WS10), and has 3 attacks... I think it's a waste of points... not counting on the thirster having it's usual armour negating magic weapons.

Against daemons is better to have lots of attacks than "quality" attacks. They have high WS and ward save...

Giants are quite useless againts DoC... he will kill them easily... but 2 doomdivers can work pretty well. Just remember that flesh hounds lose a lot when you kill just one of them, flamers also start to loose a lot of firing power, so the faster you can drain them, the better.

Remember to protect your warmachines from the furies. Spearchuckas should be quite easy to protect if he fields a GD (large target)

Good luck!

Edit
23-12-2009, 03:16
I didnt say run him at a bloodthirster, you should be shooting the bloodthirster. he is for hitting heralds/beasts etc.

Torga_DW
23-12-2009, 03:21
Do you have any idea what sort of units the daemon player will be fielding? Because theres a few very different power builds possible in the list. Tzeentch magic and shooty army from hell. Slaneesh leadership bomb from hell. Nurgle regenerating wall of death from hell. Three off the top of my head.

Dag
23-12-2009, 03:55
blord warboss on boar with screamin sword + battle brew, 2savage bigbosses on boars with pigstikka and akrit axe, gobo hero on chariot with no ward save banner, big F*'in savage biguns unit with butchery banner in it.

that unit can break almost any blood letter unit. plaguebearers just redirect them off the board.

neXus6
23-12-2009, 04:28
As a follow up, whatever the result, ask if you can swap armies, and you should write the most balanced, friendly, characterful Daemon army you can with the models he has.

Daemons, like any army are only as broken as the player who abuses them, it just happens to be the case that Daemons are the most easy to abuse army list in the history of Warhammer, that doesn't mean you should.

Alas they are so easy to overpower that it takes an actual effort to make a balanced and fun list where as with most races the opposite is true.
:wtf: