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View Full Version : Vamps vs Lizies what to expect?



Stronginthearm
22-12-2009, 20:52
Couple days from now I'm going to be playing a 2000 point lizards with my vampires, what should I expect, how should I prepare for it? in short, what should I do?

Malorian
22-12-2009, 22:05
-spear saurus/saurus cav eating through your units
-lazers from the EotG cutting things up
-Slann shutting down your magic phase and sniping your characters in armor

Stronginthearm
22-12-2009, 22:07
And the second part, how to prepare for it? I assume cairn wraiths will get eaten in this kind of battle

Nathangonmad
22-12-2009, 22:20
The Black Coach is rather effective vs lizards.

Alltaken
23-12-2009, 18:48
as a Lizzie player who mostly played VC this are my pointers:

* Expect lore of metal and take at least 2 DS, you'll need em.
* Cavalry gets cooked by EOTG and law of burning iron, so I'd rather not.
* EOTG are a stegies main weapon, outfear number them, no ITP, and their ld is rather low so besides being coldbloded and stuborn it doesn't take a lot to make'em run
* go for spectral wolves and bats to flank and cut skink skirms from your path
* big infatry units, 3 or more. ghouls are good 2 A and poison do work somewhat
* vanhell till u die
* lord will be targeted with becalming cogitation most likely, wont let you use your first necromancy spell. Try others, higher costed

Maoriboy007
23-12-2009, 20:08
2 Corpse carts within range of his Slann (3 if he takes cogitation)
20 GW GG to go with them
Yes the coach is good, but beware of GW saurus heroes
Regen banner is good against everything except Flaming lores.
If he uses cogitation, then invocation single dice spam is perfectly acceptable
with your lord, you'll probably need a summon mastery just to get 50% successful casts.
Red fury Hatred and Sword of might work well , especially on a lord.
Watch out for Saurus cavalry with the extra D3 move, suprised me once with that.

Alltaken
23-12-2009, 21:38
If he uses cogitation, then invocation single dice spam is perfectly acceptable

actually not at all. He'll becalm the lord. Invocation is casted on 4+ or 3+, can`t recall.

If he's becalmed then he can't cast it al 1, 2 or 6, if worst on 1,2,3 or 6, really not good odds at all. I would go for that. Cast 1 mega spell, more usefull.

Corpse carts are friends of your other casters.

Go for skink P's as soon as you can

dsw1
23-12-2009, 23:05
* EOTG are a stegies main weapon, outfear number them, no ITP, and their ld is rather low so besides being coldbloded and stuborn it doesn't take a lot to make'em run

First off, They cause terror so Fear or Terror is useless, they are also immune to panic, so they are essentially ITP without the actual rule.
Secondly, ld6 on 3 dice is something like (effectively) Ld8 stubborn, this meaning on average they pass more than not.

Okay, as for the advice;
EOTG - ALWAYS target the skink Priest, without the SP the EOTG is useless (well, it is still a steg, but it isn't as potent). When you take out a SP the army will lose 3 levels of magic (so 2DD), which is another plus as you're able to get your spells off more freely.

Slann - Becalming cog is a kick in the teeth for magic heavy armies, luckily for you, you can spam spells (and on a 3+ depending) it gives you a 50/50 chance of getting a spell cast. Remember, becalming cog can only target 1 caster ;) the others are free game. Some people have suggested the Corpse cart, as fun as it is watching the slann cast at -3, you I think points can be better spent elsewhere.

If the Slann is on his own, just raise and vanhels a unit of zombies in, the slann isn't immune to psych so should lose if he stays. If he is within temple guard, you're in for a tough fight. The only thing I could suggest would be grave guard with the Regen banner, banner of barrows AND the crown on them to hold them up. With the amount of survivability they have, it will be quite hard to kill them so if possible aim a few Magic missiles there way and hope they get through.

Skink skirmishers - ignore these guys, if you want to hurt them then use magic or doggies (bats too). What ever shooting damage these guys can do, you can heal it back again, just remember that.

skink cohorts - These guys are basically baiters that if ignored can (with a kroxigor inside) do some potencial damage. What I'd suggest is to do is charge these with zombies (or something else that you can just throw away), they will flee as they have no CC capabilities usually, and it will free up your decent units from being baited.

Saurus warriors - Avoid like the plague (which coincidently, all the dead bodies could spread :D), with spears, these guys main objectives is to munch down on undead. With 6 by 3 and full command, they get 25 attacks at s4 ws3 which will deal a LOT of damage to any unit without armour that faces them (well skellies/zombies/ghouls mainly). If you want to kill these guys, Flank them with fear causers, remove the ranks and also make sure you outnumber them with as many CC bonuses as possible. They will flee if they lose CC.

Razordons + sallies (to a lesser extent) - These guys are also aimed at killing your little zombies friends, with the amount of shots they can potencially pump out (s4/s3 << sallies) becareful. Ethreals are good for dealing with these guys, but as we know the EOTG and slann will be super effective against these guys. I say this, if you pre-occupy the slann and take out the engine then nothing else usually has magic weapons so ethreals are suprisingly good.

I would suggest a Vargulf (?) or two, suicide these into the engine(s) and target the skink priest(s). While they are pre-occupied take out as many skink units as possible with what else you have (bats are always a good choice, puppies too). Use zombies to hold up/force units to flee and remember that 3 razordons stand and shoot with 6 artillery dice, so before charging them, move within 6".

Becareful of the Slann, watch out for saurus (don't charge unless you know the odds are in your favour) but anythink skink should be fair game.

I'd offer more advice but I have limited time so I shall leave you with this and good luck!!

AussieSocks
27-12-2009, 09:52
Kill the Slann, once he is dead you can spam Invo/Van Hels or whatever you want.

No matter what people say, never ever cast on three or more dice with your lord, if he Double 1s you'll give away so much of your army's resilience and speed.

It's pretty much GG if either of you can kill each others lord on turn 2 or 3.

Fear outnumber anything that isn't a Stegadon (Kroxigors and Saurus Cavalry should be eay to kill with your Rare Slots).

Keep in mind that tabling every model he has except that Slann and the stegadons, will probably still be a tight game or a draw. They're massive point denial cement blocks.

At turn 4 do this:
If you've broken down a stegadon or two then just back up and have the minor win.
If you've tackled the Slann by turn 3, push for a slaughter.
If you haven't done either then prepare to really cop it.

w3rm
28-12-2009, 19:49
Double Varghulf sounds like a good idea. The Slaan Unit is almost unbreakable(cold blooded LD9 and most likely Slaan BSB) So if you can concentrate on the rest of his army before you take on his 500+ point unit. If you can take out his steggies and saurus blocks than you might have a chance.

Maoriboy007
28-12-2009, 19:55
actually not at all. He'll becalm the lord. Invocation is casted on 4+ or 3+, can`t recall.

If he's becalmed then he can't cast it al 1, 2 or 6, if worst on 1,2,3 or 6, really not good odds at all. I would go for that. Cast 1 mega spell, more usefull.

Corpse carts are friends of your other casters.

Go for skink P's as soon as you can

If you have a summon mastery you'll cast on a 3 4 or 5, with +1 to cast the'll be 4,5 and 6 respectivly.

A Slann list will have planty of dice and probably 4 dispel scrolls (if he has any sense) so you mega spell will either get you a miscast, you can't get IF cause he's becalmed you, and anything else will just get diced or scrolled. If you however, he won't use a scroll on a single dice, and with some luck youll get off an invocation or two.

Rajhald
29-12-2009, 05:36
Being a Liz player I also like to take the cube of darkness just for instances such as VC. Works as a DC but on a 4+ ends the magic phase. Basically a 50/50 chance that I can completely deny VC the most important ability they have, healing their units. I'd wait till My turn 3/4, holding back and targeting anything that can get to me quickly then I'd double charge the units I need to destroy, do as much damage as I can, hopefully wiping a couple out, and on your next turn I'd cube as early as necessary and hope for a 4+.

If he is smart he will use terradons to march block you and will make you come to him.

Alltaken
29-12-2009, 16:53
beware of the possibility of cupped hands. I ussed it once against the elves. Tried a mega spell, mega failed mega killed teclis.

Got a little lucky, he spelled some nasty miscast but it's interesting.

That same thing can happen to your lord

LKHERO
29-12-2009, 17:52
The Slaan + 2x EotG matchup for you is tough. But other lists shouldn't be too bad.

Alltaken
30-12-2009, 13:29
The Slaan + 2x EotG matchup for you is tough. But other lists shouldn't be too bad.

I saddly bought an army around 2 steggies so I can't field much other armies, normally I play vs vamps 5 games and I still keep winning. 2 EOTGs is pretty :cheese: