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tricker53
26-12-2009, 09:06
Lords
Thorek Ironbrow = 505

Heroes
Thane – BSB, Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Preservation = 155
Runesmith – Rune of Spellbreaking, Shield = 97

Core Units
25 Warriors – Champion, Standard, Shields = 245
25 Warriors – Champion, Standard, Shields = 245
23 Longbeards – Full Command, Shields, Rune of Courage = 331

Special Units
Cannon – Rune of Forging = 125
Bolt Thrower – Engineer, Rune of Penetrating, Rune of Burning = 90
Bolt Thrower – Engineer, Rune of Penetrating = 85
6 Miners = 66
6 Miners = 66

Rare Units
Organ Gun = 120
Organ Gun = 120

Total: 2250

Both heroes go with longbeards. im considering swapping the cannon for a penetrating/skewering BT, and giving musos to the warriors. all depends on whether the cannon has a definite role in this list.

Alsharoth
26-12-2009, 09:23
IMHO- Nice list how ever I'm not fond of the miners, there just too small to last long.

tricker53
26-12-2009, 09:54
theyre there to hunt enemy warmachines, march block, or get a nasty rear charge. they give the list some needed mobility. you are aware of the miners/anvil combo yes?

and honestly im not afraid of losing 132 points quickly.

Red Metal
26-12-2009, 17:26
IMHO- Nice list how ever I'm not fond of the miners, there just too small to last long.

Agreed. I'd bump one unit up to 8 and maybe drop the second unit. I know Anvil/Miner combo can be useful... but not really at 6.

I'd also change out a unit of Warriors for something like Hammerers, so your combat line has more punch. As it stands, it just doesn't seem like Warriors will be enough in a 2,250 game. Plus, you have no combat Thane, which is a must in a Dwarven army. At least one should be a Thane-of-Pain with GW, shield, and some helpful protection Runes. This is mostly to balance your weak shooting phase.

The list could use alittle tweaking. Have you checked the site Bugman's Brewery? They have some great articles on Dwarf builds. Good luck. Avenge some grudges.

tricker53
28-12-2009, 02:38
Agreed. I'd bump one unit up to 8 and maybe drop the second unit. I know Anvil/Miner combo can be useful... but not really at 6.

with a rear charge they should do fine, regardless of how many they kill. the point for them is simply to make their points back and then some by taking out a warmachine, march blocking or rear charging an unfortunate anvil unit.


I'd also change out a unit of Warriors for something like Hammerers, so your combat line has more punch. As it stands, it just doesn't seem like Warriors will be enough in a 2,250 game. Plus, you have no combat Thane, which is a must in a Dwarven army. At least one should be a Thane-of-Pain with GW, shield, and some helpful protection Runes. This is mostly to balance your weak shooting phase.

the longbeards supply punch to the lines. also i have no more hero slots left, and consider my BSB and runesmith crucial (thorek alone isnt enough magic defense). my shooting phase is hardly weak with 5 warmcahines, 3 of which are S7+, and the anvil. and if i were to change a warrior unit into thunderers and take a hammerer unit for example, then my shooting phase would simply become even weaker from the fact that i would need to drop about 200 points to proceed. i never liked thunderers anyway because of the math-hammer comparison of them to organ guns. both average the same amount of hits at over half range, organ gun has +1S and is 30 pts cheaper (assuming shields on the thunderers).

graymer
28-12-2009, 18:37
I'm assuming that if you're taking Thorek, you're looking to be competative with hard armies.

If that's the case, I see a big weakness with your army against Fear/Terror. Only one unit has the immunity. Longbeards may also provide an elite combat unit, but they are only hitting at S4, and that's without a combat Thane. I'd drop one of the units of Warriors and get Quarrelers (longer shooting range).

I like the concept of the list. It seems like you're looking to take advantage of your Miners; they are totaling 50% of your Special slot, which is IMO the best for the army. I'd consider investing in a Steam Drill, as it makes them more reliable to execute the anvil combo.

Redmetal's comments on your shooting are in respect to the fact that 3/5 WMs are random. What happens when you fluff your rolls on all 3 in a turn? Or get a misfire? If your guess range is up to snuff, the Cannon should be fine, but OGs do misfire.

The runesmith is also an odd choice to me. You pick him for basically 1 DD and 1 scroll? If you're going to invest the 70 points in the list, you may as well max his scroll allowance, or take the MRoBalance. With just one scroll he's a waste. 70 points for 1 DD and a scroll is rubbish in my eyes.

If this were my list, I'd:
-tweak the Runesmith
-drop a unit of Warriors and pick up a Core shooting choice
-reduce your units to 20 in your blocks
-bulk up a unit of miners to 12 and give them the Steam Drill
-drop the remaining Miners to take Hammerers, Slayers, or IBs; or even another shooting option from Special

As I mentioned before, I like the concept, but I with some minor alterations it can be more competative.

tricker53
05-01-2010, 02:47
hows this then?

Lords
Thorek = 505

Heroes
Thane – bsb, MR gromril, R resistance, R pres, R furnace = 160

Core
10 thunderers – shields = 150
20 warriors – full command, shields = 205
24 longbeards – full command, shields, R battle, R stoicism = 363

Special
Bolt thrower – R penetration, engineer = 85
Bolt thrower – R penetration, R burning, engineer = 90
12 miners = 132
20 hammerers – full command, shields, R courage = 320

Rare
Organ gun = 120
Organ gun = 120

Total: 2250

i would prefer the BSB unit to be 25 strong to keep its static res up (which is an amazing 7).

dropped the runesmith entirely; its too much trouble. if i double scroll it then i am a bit heavy on the magic defense side. id like to tool up to tackle a tournament list, which would have only 8 power dice at maximum, so thorek alone could probably take out the majority of threatening magic.

i could turn the thunderers into quarellers, ditch the furnace rune on the BSB and take that steamdrill i guess.

i just realised that the BSB cant have MR gromril because thorek has it already. is this true?

graymer
05-01-2010, 15:46
Yeah. Thorek chews up some of the nice Master Runes, which is sometimes unfortunate.

An alternative is MRoSpite, RoStone, RoResistance. You could do MRoSpite, RoStone, RoPreservation, and RoFurnace as well.

If you are interested at all in a runic banner, there are some pretty cool options as well. Bu that's for you to decide.

I like the newer list much better.

tricker53
07-01-2010, 01:17
thinking over it, i really dont need thorek at all now that i only have 1 unit of miners and im dropping the runesmith. i need more magic defense, and dont really need the ancient power of oath and honour anymore. i think ill swap it back to a normal anvil, which lets the BSB have his MR gromril. while im at it, ill drop the warriors/longbeards for more hammerers, and get more shooty in my core.

Lords
Runelord – Anvil of Doom, 2x Rune of Spellbreaking, Master Rune of Balance, Rune of Stone, Shield = 423

Heroes
Thane – BSB, Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Preservation = 155

Core Units
10 Thunderers – Shields = 150
10 Thunderers – Shields = 150
10 Quarrelers – Shields = 120

Special Units
20 Hammerers – Full Command, Shields, Rune of Courage = 320
19 Hammerers – Full Command, Shields, Rune of Battle, Rune of Stoicism = 327
Bolt Thrower – Engineer, Rune of Penetrating, Rune of Burning = 90
Bolt Thrower – Engineer, Rune of Penetrating = 85
14 miners – Prospector, Steamdrill = 189

Rare Units
Organ Gun = 120
Organ Gun = 120

Total: 2249

better? worse? the runelord still has his 1+ save (in combat) for a measly 8 points now, and supply much better magic defense. the BSB having MR gromril is now legal as well.

one unit of hammerers is immune to fear and terror, and the other one has the BSB, and is US40 so it shouldnt be outnumbered to fear causers too often. plus it has SCR7.

LKHERO
07-01-2010, 07:39
You REALLY want a tooled up GT in there w/ RoAccuracy, RoPenetration, RoBurning + Engineer.

If you're not good with guess ranges, you better start practicing. A well placed GT blow kills entire units, and just murders MCs with D6 wounds. Example: Hydra. You have no cannons, and you have 1 WM with RoBurning.

OK. Here's what needs to be done: You don't need 14 Miners, that's ridiculous. You want them to come out, rear charge with your Anvil, and that's it. Drop a Hammerer unit. Now buy yourself a Master Engineer or Runesmith, or Thane of Pain, and get that GT. You still have enough points for whatever's left over. Increase the Hammerers to 25; whatever you want.

tricker53
07-01-2010, 11:10
A well placed GT blow kills entire units, and just murders MCs with D6 wounds.

You mean like how a good organ gun roll does too? and im pretty sure GTs only cause D3 wounds just like BTs and cannons.


Example: Hydra. You have no cannons, and you have 1 WM with RoBurning

2 S7 BTs, 1 of which is flaming as you say, plus 2 organ guns will wither down a pair of hydras enough for a hammerer unit to finish them off with a jump from oath and honour.


OK. Here's what needs to be done: You don't need 14 Miners, that's ridiculous.

i beg to differ. if i come up against an opponent with no WMs or immobile shooty units, ill be going for the flank instead of the rear, so any less than 14 wont be enough to break an enemy elite combat unit.


Drop a Hammerer unit.

this leaves just 1 combat block to defend 3 shooty units, 4 WMs and the anvil. one dwarf block can much too easily be redirected for my liking.

graymer
07-01-2010, 15:57
Runed up GTs are the most accurate artillery that Dwarfs have. If you're great with guessing range, they are absolutely ridiculous. And they do cause D6 wounds with no AS allowed. Make them flaming and things don't get a Regen save against it. I would highly recommend one if you can manage.

I also really like BTs, but there is a huge downside to them if they miss. Often times I've hit a unit with them only to roll a 1 on the first RnF model. This cost me a tournament in a finals match where I was against WoC. I landed 5 BT hits on a unit of Chaos Chosen, but rolled a 1 every time for the first model. Odds are, however, that won't happen; I wouldn't give it much thought.

TBH, Miners really shouldn't be larger than 12. There's just no reason for it. Max frontage of 6 with GWs is really nice, and as a flanking unit, you really can't ask for more. They will already have a flank (+1 or +2) and rank (+1) bonus assuming they get in on the charge (fear/terror). The latter would be the greatest of my concerns.

OGs are really nice as well, but when you include 2 of them, you double the chances that you'll misfire. I'm really on the fence about this one as most of my newer competative lists feature 2 OGs. Because I am in the middle of repainting and rebasing my army, I honestly haven't had much time to playtest it.

I like the newest revised list you posted. I think it's all about minor tweaks at this point. Get some games in with it if you can manage and see what happens. That may give you better perspective on what works and what doesn't.

LKHERO
07-01-2010, 16:45
You mean like how a good organ gun roll does too? and im pretty sure GTs only cause D3 wounds just like BTs and cannons.

No. It does D6 wounds. And a S5 (S10 under the hole) Stone Thrower landing on a block of Infantry will destroy the entire thing. Any MC hit by it can and will most likely die. Trust me, I've made players quit after my first round of shooting because of a well placed rock. You want this. And you want to practice it if you haven't already.

tricker53
08-01-2010, 01:18
my main problem with taking a GT is that ill have to free up a special choice, which means either dropping 2 BTs (not gonna happen), a hammerer unit (which i will have to replace with another elite-ish combat block) or miners. i understand GTs are great, and im not bad at guessing range either. but if i do drop a hammerer unit, the only other option for a good combat block is longbeards, which means taking a warrior unit as well.

why am i now picturing a dragon-armoured character resisting 2/3 of my character slaughtering WMs if i take this GT?

also i think its an exaggeration to say it destroys the entire unit. you cant possibly get 20 or 25 models under a small blast template. what you could be doing is making them panic after taking about 50%+ casualties; thats more believable and has roughly the same outcome, if not a better one (fleeing into friendly units, domino effect).

honestly i want one, but i cant see how i could fit it in and stay legal.

@graymer

20mm models can maximise with 7 in combat against the smallest imaginable ranked unit (100mm across), thus 14 is a good number. if i take 12 i could run them as 7 in the first rank, 5 in the 2nd (and even change it before they come onto the field depending on what im up against) but every time ive play tested miners they take 1 or 2 casualties after swinging, even with the steamdrill. 2 ranks of 7 means those 2 casualties doesnt deny the rank bonus, should another round of combat roll around. im even considering giving them a standard.

LKHERO
08-01-2010, 01:30
Depends on your meta. If there's a lot of HE players, don't bring RoBurning. But against everything else, RoBurning is great. (mine landed a perfect hit on a 20-man unit of GG with BSB banner. Killed 12).

tricker53
08-01-2010, 01:51
ill have a look at the list with only 1 unit of hammerers, 1 of warriors and 1 of longbeards.

Lords
Runelord – Anvil of Doom, 2x Rune of Spellbreaking, Master Rune of Balance, Rune of Stone, Shield = 423

Heroes
Thane – BSB, Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Preservation = 155

Core Units
20 Warriors – Full Command, Shields = 205
24 Longbeards – Full Command, Shields, Rune of Battle, Rune of Stoicism = 363
10 Quarrellers – Shields = 120

Special Units
20 Hammerers – Full Command, Shields, Rune of Courage = 320
Grudge Thrower – Rune of Penetrating, Rune of Burning, Rune of Accuracy = 135
Bolt Thrower – Engineer, Rune of Penetrating, Rune of Burning = 90
14 miners – Standard, Prospector, Steamdrill = 199

Rare Units
Organ Gun = 120
Organ Gun = 120

Total: 2250

i dont have many (in fact i cant think of any right now) HE players in my meta so ill 'risk' the burning. had to drop 1 of the BTs to fit the GT in. also couldnt fit the engineer in.

is it worth dropping both BTs and switching back to the dual hammerer units? i feel uneasy with just 1 BT. of course then the problem is having only 3 WMs, but i will have 20 more thunderers as well.

heres the alternative list:

Lords
Runelord – Anvil of Doom, 2x Rune of Spellbreaking, Master Rune of Balance, Rune of Stone, Shield = 423

Heroes
Thane – BSB, Master Rune of Gromril, Rune of Resistance, Rune of Preservation = 155

Core Units
10 Thunderers – Shields = 150
10 Thunderers – Shields = 150
10 Quarrellers – Shields = 120

Special Units
24 Hammerers – Full Command, Shields, Rune of Battle, Rune of Stoicism = 392
20 Hammerers – Full Command, Shields, Rune of Courage = 320
Grudge Thrower – Engineer, Brace of Pistols, Rune of Penetrating, Rune of Burning, Rune of Accuracy = 155
10 miners – Prospector, Steamdrill = 145

Rare Units
Organ Gun = 120
Organ Gun = 120

Total: 2250

thoughts?