PDA

View Full Version : Storm Vermin are they worth it?



ExxonValdez
26-12-2009, 14:49
I'm building a skaven army. I have a unit with a bell. Leaning towards using clanrats to push it but I like the look of the Stormvermin models. They would make a great centre piece. However I am looking to build a competitive list.

Storm Vermin with Shields are 8 points each.
Clanrats with Shields are 4.5 points each.

A storm vermin that wants to use his 3+ save in combat will not be able to use the halberd making him slightly better than a clanrat. for almost twice the points.

or I was thinking of using them as "detachments" having a unit of 10 on the flanks of each side of my bell unit. Keep them cheap and have them charge anything that makes it past the unit of slaves I have infront of the bell.

They are also capable of taking a Magic Banner that cannot be picked out.

I've stated the obvious, I am leaning towards the clanrats but I have not played with them yet and I am looking for some real life examples.

Thanks

Tower_Of_The_Stars
26-12-2009, 15:27
I would only consider them since they have the option of taking the storm banner.

kiickman
26-12-2009, 15:42
I would only consider them since they have the option of taking the storm banner.

i agree whit that.. tho they are a bit expensiv. but i think it is good too have a unit that is medium hard hitting. :) as i am thinking of using them whit 25x vermins whit stormbanner and an BSB whit Shroud Of Dripping Death.

Was thinking too teleport him back at enemys line whit skitterleap to kill ther War mechines.

Foegnasher
26-12-2009, 15:44
Stormvermin are a double edged sword. the 3+ ar and hte ws4 is what you are paying for. you get a unit that can grind it out in CC, and hold your opponent up.

now for the bad news.

skaven elites, well, they aren't all that elite. any other elites will mop them up in short order. also, they make a big fat expensive target for your oppnent to shoot at.

but they can carry a magic standard, and you'll get fluffy comp points for takeing them.

so go ahead, just dont think they are more than what they are.

GuyLeCheval
26-12-2009, 15:49
for many other races, they would be very nice. nut us Skaven do not have that much with them...

punkoteloco
26-12-2009, 15:56
I like them. For a skaven, well they hold their ground ( better than clanrats ). Of course in the game there are better choices, but skavens are not that elite. A 3+ save is always good. Using them with storm banner and a character is good.

kyussinchains
26-12-2009, 16:32
the WS4 alone means that against other WS4 troops you will be taking 16.6% fewer casualties than a unit of clanrats, the extra armour save makes them that bit more survivable too, I'd say they do warrant inclusion for those reasons alone.... if it means they lose combats by 1-2 points less it can make all the difference between fleeing and hanging around.....

XLast_Of_The_OrderX
26-12-2009, 17:09
I use a unit of Stormvermin in every Skaven army that I field. I generally do put the Storm Banner in their unit to make him unsnipeable, unless I'm going against an army with little-to-no shooting, such as VC (in which case the Banner Of The Under-Empire is a fun alternative for surprising any enemies trying to attack my "target unit" even on the flank). I also tend to put my Warlord in the unit, because it seems to add just the punch I need to make them a very valuable unit, given the already mentioned extra armour save when its needed, and also being the only Skaven core unit in the book that has any option to punch through armour themselves. Yes, when its all said and done, they don't really stand up to most other armies' elite units. However, what you have to take into account is that they are, again, Skaven and that when fully armed they are about half to 2/3 the points of most other naked elite units in the game.

IMO they have always been worth it, and yes, the new models do look awesome :)

Shamutanti
26-12-2009, 17:54
Queek's uber stormvermin for the win! :D

Dexter099
26-12-2009, 20:59
Stormvermin are the only way for Skaven to field medium, survivable troops. Having a reliable unit in an army filled with unreliable monsters and cannon fodder is a good thing for tactics in general.

My Marauders and Warriors can easily cave through the regular Skaven Blocks, but a unit of Stormvermin that holds me up for a few turns can change the tide of the game and allow my elite forces to be surrounded.

If you use them poorly and send them against really heavy infantry and cavalry like Chosen and Chaos Knights, you're wasting them, but if you send them against other medium troops your regular Skaven can't beat you'll discover their worth.

innerwolf
27-12-2009, 11:13
Another of my slightly useless hints :p having Storm Vermin only as a way of fielding an untargeteable Storm Banner sounds fluffy to me. Both have Storm in their names :D

Bad jokes aside, let's look at how many clanrats/stormvermin(using handweapon and shield) a chaos warrior would kill:
CW with halberd- 1,33 hits->1,1 wounds->0,92 dead clanrats
1 hit->0,83 wounds->0,55 dead stormvermin
CW with 2xHW- 0,88 dead clanrats
0,5 dead stormvermin
CW with GW- 1,1 dead clanrats
0,69 dead stormvermin
CW with HW+S- 0,59 dead clanrats
0,33 dead stormvermin

What do we see from this limited example? Stormvermin are 1,6-1,8 times more survivable than clanrats, and 1,77 times more expensive. So you could buy more clanrats to compensate, but they would suffer more from combat resolution, and static CR wouldn't help them( both units should have full ranks and outnumber).
So the same points of Stormvermin lose combat by less than equivalent clanrat unit.
Give them a doomflayer( with 3+save and lots of ST 4 attacks I think it's quite fitting with them) or a character and you can even win combats.

I think we can also see using Stormvermin with a Screaming Bell is not optimum, as theyr CR advantage is lost when the unit is unbreakeable.

Anyway I think they are a good center block for Skaven armies.

CauCaSus
27-12-2009, 21:56
I'd buy them in a heart-beat if only for the awesome new models.

Maybe except for the fact that I would need at least 25 models in a unit and the box "only" comes with 20.

Taishar
28-12-2009, 01:31
No.


Cheers

Loki73
28-12-2009, 03:59
Yes they rule. And look good doing it. Just remember your minimum army size of 200+ models...oh wait, thats my minimum, never-mind! =)

wingedserpant
28-12-2009, 11:11
Twenty Stormvermin offer more visual and tactical options to your army than another unit of 30 clanrats with shields.

You are going to have plenty of clanrats anyway. Stormvermin at least have the option to be offensive and defensive whereas clanrats can only be hap hazardly defensive.

And the models rock.

Finnigan2004
29-12-2009, 01:17
Are you kidding? They're sixty dollars a box in Canada. Oh, wait, you're talking point value...

Blueskies
29-12-2009, 08:57
The only thing going for the stormvermin is their ability to take a magic banner, which a 30 strong with bsb, warbanner and clan superiority is a huge static res block with some combat ability, while a 25 block with bsb underempire and dripping death is pretty nice trick for anyone who enguages in hth.

JCF
03-01-2010, 12:36
You probably want one unit of 25-30, primarily for the banner. They're definitely worth giving shields to so you have the option of whether to use the Halebard or Hand Weapon. They're very good as an anchor, and for that they're worth the extra points. And if you throw a BSB in there then you use them to hold up an opponent before flanking.

Fjoergyn
03-01-2010, 19:01
I used two little units of 10 SV naked last game, vs O&G and they made it nice. 70 Points per unit, not so expensive, killed two wolf raiders units that charged them, flanked a chariot and made one or two wounds. They have LD 5-6, true, but if they die, they are only 70 points. Maybe ROgres would made it better, but they are frenzy and have no armor.

They are not so much essential in the army, but they are cool :D

shinankoku
03-01-2010, 19:07
I used them to dispatch a unit of Empire Greatswords very efficiently (two turns of combat, 10+ casualties a turn). They were supported by a doom-flayer and the standard was carrying The Banner of the Under-Empire. Of course, I would never take them against, say, High Elves or Choas of any stripe. Like everything else, whether or not SV are good depends on who your fighting, and how you use them.

CapitanMee
03-01-2010, 21:33
I had some sucess in a small game aginst WOC. 20 of them with shields held aginst a a 5 man Chaos Knight charge, managed to win combat and run the knights down, but this might be owed to my amazing ability t roll 5's. In any sence I love the models and will probably keep them in alot of my lists.