PDA

View Full Version : Dogs of War



monstertomten
26-12-2009, 19:07
I'm pretty new at Warhammer but well into what was initially a Hordes of Chaos army. As I'm plannig my next army, which is to be Empire, I wonder if I may include Dogs of War in it (a unit of Leadbelchers to be exact). I can't find a mention of Dogs of War in the Army Book.

Mayhaps someone can answer and even point me in the direction of clear and offial rules for including Dogs of War-units in an Empire (or other) army.

Thanks a bunch.

Griefbringer
26-12-2009, 19:08
The rules for including Dogs of War units in other armies are to be found in the Dogs of War army list.

monstertomten
26-12-2009, 19:55
Well... that doesn't quite answer my question. This army list, where do I find it? Is it out of print or simply just published in other was than a plain Amry Book?

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
26-12-2009, 20:06
Well... that doesn't quite answer my question. This army list, where do I find it? Is it out of print or simply just published in other was than a plain Amry Book?

The pdf files are available on the Games Workshop website. Also, the rules for using Leadbelchers are available in the Ogre Kingdoms army book. Check it out.

monstertomten
26-12-2009, 20:31
Well, feeling pretty silly for asking, but please give a url for this/these pdf:s. The GW-site is a mess :/

The Ogre Kingdoms-book discusses Dogs of War, but since no (as far as I know) 7th Edition Army Book has a note under the Rare Choices about Dogs of War, that got me wondering if they're excluded in the new set of rules or if it is simply implied that all armies may have them if nothing else is noted.

Shamutanti
26-12-2009, 20:41
In all honesty I would simply drop the idea of using Dogs of War - they're slowly being phased out and were a mistake by GW anyway.

You can't take Leadbelchers either way because it's part of the Ogre Kingdoms army, not the Empire.

Somewhere vague in the book I believe it mentions/talks about using normal stated Ogres (not the Ogre Kingdoms ones) and Giants as DoWs but yeah, don't go down that route.

Take a Steamtank instead.

monstertomten
26-12-2009, 20:47
@Shamutanti - Well, not being able to take Leadbelchers would mean not being able to take DoW at all, since they are noted as Dogs of War in the Ogre Kingdoms Army Book. Still, what you write about being phased out is pretty much what I suspected. Would drop the Leadbelchers if it werent for me having a set of them unpainted and in dire need of battle... without me having to do an entire Ogre Kingdoms army.

Shamutanti
27-12-2009, 00:41
They're listed as that in the Ogre Kingdoms army book? Odd - never read/heard about that. I've always believed it was a set of standard ogres you could 'hire'. Base rulebook stat lines, no impact hits, no additional equipment.

Don't suppose you have the quote on hand in the army book?

Nurgling Chieftain
27-12-2009, 00:55
Page 33: "Leadbelchers may be used as Dogs of War in any army list with the appropriate option, counting as a Rare choice..."

This doesn't work nearly as cleanly now that they're habitually removing references to DoW from new army books.

Braad
27-12-2009, 01:01
Well, thing is, some time ago they started to drop the entry for DOW out of the rare section of the army books. One reason was because not all DOW were actually rare units in all armies (for example the armoured orcs are a special in Orcs and Goblins). The other is that they wanted the DOW rules to be standalone from the rest of the armybooks. In that case, when they wanted to change the rules, they wouldn't have to change all armybooks, just provide a new DOW book.
There was a quote on the website from Gav Thorpe (back then, he was still the big boss) that you should use the rules given for them in the DOW armylists themselves to see which armies can take them, and not use the rare-entry most armybooks still had.

Sadly, the quote is gone from the website since they updated it, and so are the PDF files for the DOW. No-one from GW has said anything on the matter since. Even the new giant rules-set, which was launched with all kinds of DOW rules for several armies so that nearly everyone could buy and use one, is now gone. DOW is quite a grey area now, but I don't think they are actually to be considered legal anymore, since there are no current rules published.

There you have it, I think that's about all that is known.

If you'd like to have these old rules, drop me a PM with an e-mail address, and I can send you the whole bunch.

Personally, I say that if someone wants to field stuff outside their armylist, and it is for friendly play, just go ahead, as long as the intention is cool and the model/unit not to rediculous. We still play with DOW and also homemade rules. At least, I got gobbo's shootin' cannons and forest gobbo's riding bats. Just for the fun of it :)

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
27-12-2009, 02:14
In all honesty I would simply drop the idea of using Dogs of War - they're slowly being phased out and were a mistake by GW anyway.

You can't take Leadbelchers either way because it's part of the Ogre Kingdoms army, not the Empire.

Somewhere vague in the book I believe it mentions/talks about using normal stated Ogres (not the Ogre Kingdoms ones) and Giants as DoWs but yeah, don't go down that route.

Take a Steamtank instead.

Hey, if you don't want to use them fine, but don't discourage a guy who is actively looking for the rules. They were not a mistake and there are tons of players who love the models and the army list.

And please take the time to investigate before you tell someone they can't use Ogre Kingdoms Ogres in their army. That's simply not true.

ZigZagMan
27-12-2009, 06:02
Go to dogsofwaronline.com
They have the GW pdf avalible for download there. They are also working on thier own take of the rules, somewhat like the way Chaos Dwarves got thier own fandex, that is allowed at the big indie tournaments.

Condottiere
27-12-2009, 06:12
Leadbelchers take a rare slot; the rules for specific Ogre units that can be used in other armies are in the OK book.

The reasons for the removal of any mention of DoW in other ABs is posted above.

monstertomten
27-12-2009, 16:32
Many thanks to all who answered. Seems I was pretty right on track from the start though. I'll probably paint the Leadbelchers for use with my Empire army for the fun of it. Great forum. I'll stick around.

Hochdorf
27-12-2009, 23:08
I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of reference to DoW in the Empire book. Go by what the OK book says. As a few people have said, they are slowly phasing out DoW which is why they are not mentioned in recent army books' rare slot. But until they change the OK book too I would say you could use them in friendly games as DoW. Someone would have to be a real rules lawyer to not let you take them because of lack of entry in the Empire book. Would be fine with most players for sure.

Crazy Harborc
27-12-2009, 23:49
Less than two weeks ago, DoW/RoR pdf files were not listed with the rest of the WHFB armies on the GW,USA site. The minies/models were not listed either.

ZigZagMan
28-12-2009, 04:45
On the other hand GW has stopped producing grand tournaments here in the US and has started relying on the independent tournaments. They do host one tournament at the end of the year for all the winners of those tournaments, but what this essentially means is that these independant tournament now decide what is "tournament legal". And if its tournament legal its usually friendly game legal as well.

So until they replace the book or change the rules system to the point where ALL armybooks are obsolete (i.e. 5th ed to 6th ed) or just plain out and out say "we are squatting this army", the rules for DOW are legal.

(i know, i know, you don't have to play against anything you don't want to play against, and any tournament organizer can ban whatever he likes from his tournament. But that applies to ALL armies)

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
28-12-2009, 14:10
Less than two weeks ago, DoW/RoR pdf files were not listed with the rest of the WHFB armies on the GW,USA site. The minies/models were not listed either.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat1200011&rootCatGameStyle=

A whole bunch of the minis are right here. Anyone can do a search and quickly come up with the rules .pdfs.

Braad
28-12-2009, 16:42
Anyone can do a search and quickly come up with the rules .pdfs.

No they can't.

In the gaming articles section, where such things are supposed to be, there are no rules for DOW whatsoever. At least, not as far as I can see. They've been gone ever since the update. Search doesn't come up with anything. Though please show us, if you can find stuff.

Also, not all the models are still on there, just a bunch of the more generic ones. For example the 'cursed company' doesn't show up in the search results, and neither do the birdmen. Even the hobgoblins are gone. So, phasing out it is.

Hmm, I might have to put a little hurry on me buying armoured orcs...

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
28-12-2009, 19:37
No they can't.

In the gaming articles section, where such things are supposed to be, there are no rules for DOW whatsoever. At least, not as far as I can see. They've been gone ever since the update. Search doesn't come up with anything. Though please show us, if you can find stuff.

I didn't mean that they could be found on the website, I meant they could be found on the Interwebs.

For example: here (http://www.filestube.com/d/dogs+of+war+pdf)

Or you could send me a PM with your actual email address and I could send it to you.

Crazy Harborc
29-12-2009, 00:12
Thanks for the link that showed some of the no longer available as officially useable DoW/RoR units. Since I can't find "Miscellaneous" listed amongst all those that are listed, I'll likely save your link.;)

The official WHFB pdf files do not include DoW or RoR files. I will still use my DoW/RoR units in "friendly games". Fact is, they are not official anymore, not without being listed with the offficial pdf files that are allowable.

burad
29-12-2009, 00:51
There are still some RoR miniatures left on the US website in the Warhammer Collectors Miscellaneous section as of when i write this (28 Dec 09):
Alcantani Pikemen
Braganzas Besiegers
Leopolds Leopard Company
Marksmen of Miragliano
Prazzo's Lost Legion
Ricco's Republican Guard
Volands Venators
and:
Lumpin Croops Fighting Cocks are listed with the Empire Collectors.
Ruglud's Armored Orcs are listed with Orcs & Goblins Collectors
Long Drong's Slayer Pirates comes up in Warhammer Dwarf Collectors
Mengil's Manflayers come up in Dark Elves Collectors
Tichi Huichi and his Cold Ones comes up in Lizardmen Collectors

How long any of these will be there, who knows. And whether you can use them in competition has been answered previously. I'd suggest if you want any of those still listed, get them soon. Good luck.

Przemcio251
29-12-2009, 07:25
Where i can get Dow Army book in PDF i remeber it was in PDF some time ago on GW web site???

ZigZagMan
29-12-2009, 14:58
I'll say it again, go to
dogsofwaronline.com
check out their forums, the download link is in one of the first ones...

enyoss
29-12-2009, 15:26
To the OP, I say if you want to use Leadbelchers with your Empire then go ahead :).

From a rules legallity standpoint I think you're fine, given the quote from Gav Thorpe. From a background standpoint, Ogres have always been a part of the Empire flavour, so it's well in character to include them in your list.

Braad
29-12-2009, 17:20
I didn't mean that they could be found on the website, I meant they could be found on the Interwebs.

Ow, I thought you meant the GW website.
I don't think it is actually legal though, to publish them outside of GW, as IP still belongs to GW (yes, also on free stuff). So I'm not sure it is a good idea to post direct links here considering warseer rules...

Condottiere
30-12-2009, 03:01
It's just GW being a Dog in a Manger.